So what if your bullet does go through a wall?

I have a keepsake of a shot going through one house and into another.
A jewelry box and a pocket watch

Neighbor cleaning his rifle (unsure of caliber need to ask parents) at night. Round goes out through exterior wall, travels approx. 60ft, goes through another exterior wall, travels about 10 ft passing over my crib (had I woke up like kids do in the middle of the night and stood up=headshot), enters a jewelry box, and stops hitting a pocket watch inside making a good dent breaking the watch.

Both homes stick framed with wood siding.
 
being a parent i don't have the luxury of worrying about imminent lethal threat to myself. god forbid i'll ever need to face someone down in my own home. but every scenario i've ever imagined always begins with me thinking where i would need to maneuver to to keep my son's room out of the line of my own fire, as well as any wild shots in my direction.
 
Response To pfch977

Originally posted:

"I believe that if my bullet missed and went through my residence wall then it would probably have to go through another residence wall. If the bullet went through two walls, would it still be lethal?"

The answer is absolutely and unquestionably YES . . .

"I imagine that the speed of the bullet would be greatly slowed and the shape of the bullet would be distorted. I don't picture it having the same power."

It would be plenty close . . . and here is why:

First off someone had already mentioned the box of truth website.
Heres the link:http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot12.htm

It clearly demonstrates how a fairly light weight 9mm 155 gr JHP (THATS A HOLLOW POINT MIND YOU not a FMJ.) WILL cut through four fully insulated walls like a hot knife through butter. Check out the exit whole in the fourth wall set a full 40 feet away. There is no question that this would have be lethal would it have impacted someone. Everything he fires goes through all for wall with equally ease and potential lethality. The clear and final answer to your question is undeniably YES any bullet that permeates 2, 3, 4+ walls is invariably LETHAL.

I have taken a great deal of time collecting and interpreting ballistics and wound data over a considerable expanse of time. Just because most people cannot hit a target at 100 yards with a handgun does not mean that the bullet is not fully capable of traveling that distance with entirely lethal potential. Observe this link it demonstrates this point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKg9jISfOyg

As for a bullet shot into the air, the Mythbusters actually did this one. Unless a bullet is fired exactly, and I mean EXACTLY strait up against the force of gravity (not even a few degrees off) any bullet will fall back to earth on a what is called a ballistic trajectory and will impact the ground with LETHAL force. The wind trims a great deal of velocity off of the bullet in flight but I assure you, you cannot run out their and catch it as it falls. ---One specific instance of this I recall I think was actually aired quite some time ago on an old T.V show called Rescue 911. Some ignoramus's was shooting a revolver in their back yard at some soda cans. To make a long story short he missed one, the bullet passed over the backing and ended up falling into an old man sitting in a lounge chair hundreds of yards away. If you use the vast tool of information that is the Internet and really look you will find that their are actuality a considerable numerous reports where a rouge bullet apparently fired from nowhere fell from the sky and killed some unfortunate soul.

(Another report I recall off hand was of a couple who was speaking in there garage. The woman did not hear the sound of a gunshot, she only knew something was wrong when her husbands eyes rolled back in his head and he fell to the floor. (sorry for the graphic descriptions) When the cops arrived they had determined that a bullet fired from some unknown location had fallen through the roof and entered the mans head instantly killing him)

Ballistic trajectories are random and extremely dangerous. As are bullets that permeate walls (Buckshot from shotguns are not excluded as many people think. Buckshot will also permeate walls with potentially lethal energy.) It is imperative that people are aware of these facts and that this kind of information is spread until it becomes common knowledge . . .
 
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A question for SMiller

"Had a 9mm go off in my house, went through the carpet and foam padding, through the 2x10 hand cut floor and out of my basement wall that was concrete block . . ."

1.) Did you by any chance see the actual exit of this round or did you assume that it permeated all the way through?

2.) Do you by any chance recall its brand and loading? I would like to know.

To be honest the carpet and floor I understand but it would be highly unusual for a 9mm to completely permeate a concrete block. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting you, it is only that most of the time you might expect a bullet of this type to either embed into the concrete or even more typically ricochet off of it after making a small crater. Could you explain this happening in greater detail for me I would very much like to know more about it?



The picture link below is what is more typical expected from of a 9mm impacting concrete.
 

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Oy vay. Calculus... again... Okay. You asked for it. For something fired straight up, the bullet slows according to: Distance = initial (muzzle) velocity * time - 9.8 meters per second PER second * time. (This is the simplest one, not including wind resistance.) To include that.... You would also subtract the Area under the curve defined by the integral for the force of friction with respect to instantenous velocity. Leaving a system of equations with respect to three related variables- time, coefficient of friction and velocity.
YUCK! All of that will yield the max height of the bullet, which gives the gravitational potential energy. From that you again subtract the wind resistance, giving the kinetic energy on impact with the Earth.
All of this is moot, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict the bullet's coefficient of friction on the return trip b/c it is no longer stabilized by its spin. Net result... a statistical window in which three standard deviations will fall- roughly 99% of all bullets fired thusly. Would it kill when it hits... statistically no, but that only accounts for 99%.... there is always that slim chance that it might self-stabilize on the return trip, and be lethal. That is the mathematical answer... period. It isn't a physics problem, but one of statistics, b/c there is NO definitive way to predict wind resistance on the return trip. Okay?
Now, I'm going to enjoy some scotch... and kill off those offending brain cells I just used.
 
Response to Warrior Poet

Mathematics is defiantly not my strength :) Let alone calculus, but I think you are expressing mathematically why a bullet will keyhole (impact sideways) after permeating and object or after bleeding off excessive speed am I right?

If I am right than you are right (I think :confused::)) and so their is far too many variables to calculate. Such as how many people per cubic mile inhabit a given area of space of which a falling rouge bullet may have a chance to impact. (am I right?)

And just because mathematically their are too many variables, that does not follow that bullets falling on ballistic trajectories have not proved themselves quite deadly time and time again.
 
All of this is moot, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict the bullet's coefficient of friction on the return trip b/c it is no longer stabilized by its spin. ... Okay?
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Sounds good except that Hatcher's tests proved conclusively that a bullet can remain stabilized by spin on the return trip. In his 30-06 tests, the 150gr bullets remained stabilized and fell base first while the 175gr bullets tumbled on the return trip. The falling 150gr bullets were traveling around 300-400fps which is fast enough to penetrate the skull.

A tumbling bullet is going to have a much reduced terminal velocity, testing I've seen indicates that a typical, tumbling pistol bullet will fall at somewhere around 150fps, give or take. That's not likely to be terribly dangerous although I think it would make an impression on someone if it hit them. ;)

The more dangerous case than either tumbling or falling base first is a steeply elevated trajectory (when the bullet is fired steeply upward but not STRAIGHT upward). In that case the bullet will tend to remain stabilized and come down nose first with not only terminal velocity but also the remainder of the horizontal component of it's velocity left after drag. The resulting velocity is the vector sum of the terminal velocity plus the remaining horizontal velocity after drag loss. Definitely lethal potential.
 
Jumping in here since I'm a physicist... JohnKSa pretty much has it right.

Warrior Poet: You really can't ignore air resistance and expect to get a solution that is anywhere near correct. Air resistance is very significant in ballistics. Also, the bullet will remain spin-stabilized until something stops the spin; reaching the apex of a ballistic trajectory does not cause the spin to cease.

One thing about spin-stabilized objects is that you can get interesting behavior, such as precession (like the wobbling of a spinning top). Precession should increase drag somewhat, but some degree of axial stability remains; you won't get actual tumbling until the rotation of the bullet is mostly gone.
 
"bullet will tend to remain stabilized and come down nose first with not only terminal velocity but also the remainder of the horizontal component of it's velocity left after drag. The resulting velocity is the vector sum of the terminal velocity plus the remaining horizontal velocity after drag loss. Definitely lethal potential."

This is whats called a ballistic trajectory. And yes they are very dangerous, everyone should be aware of this fact.
 
I once had a negligent discharge of a 1911. The .45 ACP bullet went through my wall and murdered my neighbors air conditioner. A $1360.00 negligence. The frightening part was that had it gone at a slightly different angle, it would have gone through his wlls with enough force to seriously wound someone in his house, if not kill them.
 
One, I never said to ignore wind resistance. Reread and you'll see that. Two, when speaking about mathematic prediction I assumed tumbling. No one ever specified a bullet type, so I went with what I believed to be a general answer. A hollow base bullet- like an SS109 M16 bullet (one I know REALLY well) would most certainly tumble when falling backwards, greatly reducing its rotational velocity (at least in the original vector). My point was that there are far too many variables to predict where the bullet will land and how it will be pointed when it hits. Bullet shape, crosswinds, temperature, altitude, and so on and on make an accurate prediction impossible- a three shot "group" MIGHT cover a three block radius. THAT'S why I said this isn't a calculus problem, but one for statistics. I'm sorry if I came across confusing. Believe it or not, I was trying to keep it relatively simple. As for whether it would be lethal on impact- I wouldn't want to be hit by it. ;)
Anyway, I think we've veered off the original thread (retained lethality after going through a wall) and I'm guilty of helping push it that way. As such... I'll apologize to the OP for helping hijack his post. SORRY.
 
A hollow base bullet- like an SS109 M16 bullet (one I know REALLY well) would most certainly tumble when falling backwards, greatly reducing its rotational velocity (at least in the original vector).
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If it still has a high rotation (seems likely), it will not tumble upon falling backwards. Though incidentally, the larger caliber bullets will have a (significantly) higher moment of inertia, and thus are more likely to retain their rotation.

I wouldn't want to be hit by it. ;)
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Me either. :D
 
If I was defending my property this wouldnt be an issue. Firstly, I live in a fully detached 250 year old cottage. If I fired a bullet at a wall in my house, it would probably do damage to the stone work. If I fired a gun at the several wooden doors on my premises it might be a different issue.

Basically. I dont think if I were protecting my home and a bullet went through a door etc it wouldnt be a problem.
 
My uncle Phil was sitting in his Brooklyn apartment years ago and the guy in the apartment below had a discharge cleaning his rifle that went through the floor, into the bottom of my uncle's foot, out the top, back into his shin, out the calf, into the back of the thigh, out the top and through a shoulder. He wasn't critically injured (!) suffered no long term effect and never bothered to sue the guy.


Which would you rather catch if it were falling from a building, a matzoth ball or a cannonball?
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If it was my mother's matzoh ball, I'd rather take the cannonball...less dense...
 
Had a 9mm go off in my house, went through the carpet and foam padding, through the 2x10 hand cut floor and out of my basement wall
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The only AD that I ever had was years ago when I fired an old Colt .32 auto into the floor; I had pointed it downwards, out of habit, when I squeezed the trigger and actually fired twice . Admittedly it was "only" a .32 but it did not penetrate the ceiling of the condo below me. Also, the rounds were Winchester Silvertips which may have had something to do with it. They broke up inside the padding and did not travel far.

On New Years, many LAPD patrol units working the late show pull into parking garages at midnight, because of falling lead.
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In the last 15+ years it's been a little better since they made it a felony, but good God I was there in 1990 and it was like the Battle of Midway. Full auto, everything; the mad minute. I remember a round kicking up sparks a couple yards from me. Unbelievable.
 
I had an AD in my home late last year with a 9mm carbine. It went through the floor of my room, through a heating duct, the ceiling of the room below and lodged in a wall stud in the room below mine. Fortunately I was the only one home at the time, but as a result, I personally do not keep loaded mags in the firearm. They may be with the firearm in the case, but in a seperate pocket.

My dad keeps his pistol with a loaded mag, empty chamber. Thats how i caused my AD, so I dont do it anymore.
 
Yes, a bullet that goes through a wall can kill someone on the other side. Here's a recent example:

Woman shot, killed by husband
Man used gun to make hole in wall

By RITA FLOREZ

A Deepwater woman died Saturday after being shot in the chest, according to the Henry County Sheriff’s Department.

Patsy D. Long, 34, was pronounced dead by Coroner Scott Largent just after 6 p.m.

Long was shot by her husband Ronald Long outside their home just after 6 p.m., while she was assisting him with the installation of a satellite television system, according to a written statement by the Sheriff’s Department.

Ronald Long, 39, of 956 SE 1121, Deepwater, told deputies he had made several attempts to punch a hole through the exterior wall of the house, according to the report. When that did not work, Long told deputies he used a .22-caliber handgun to shoot through the wall from inside the home. His second shot hit Patsy Long in the chest, the report stated.

Deputies are still investigating the death, and “Once we complete a diagram of the incident, we will be submitting everything to the prosecuting attorney and let him decide if he wants to press criminal charges,” said Major Robert Hills, of the Henry County Sheriff’s Department.

Hills said he could not speak for the prosecuting attorney, but normally in these types of cases the person would “get charged with a manslaughter of some sort.”

Henry County Coroner Scott Largent declined to release any information about Patsy Long’s death until the Sheriff’s Department finishes its investigation.
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Original is here: http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/news/henry_7329___article.html/woman_county.html
 
Two teen age girls were killed at Carowinds outside Charlotte several years ago by some fellows target shooting over a mile away. They ignored several safety rules and laws including the one about not having their automatic rifle licensed.
 
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