MeekAndMild
New member
What should the US do about Iran? Frankly I don't know, so that is my poll vote.
So what do we do about Iran?
- Thread starter MeekAndMild
- Start date
Wildalaska
Moderator
Ultimatum...then declaration of war.
My suggestion is folks refresh their insights on international politics by reading Morgenthaus 'politics Among nations" (the bible of international relations) and Kahns "On Thermonuclear war"
WildwehavenochoiceAlaska
My suggestion is folks refresh their insights on international politics by reading Morgenthaus 'politics Among nations" (the bible of international relations) and Kahns "On Thermonuclear war"
WildwehavenochoiceAlaska
MeekAndMild
New member
Wild how did you post before the poll was up?
Problems with going into Iran.
From what I have been able to gather, it goes like this.
Both Russia and China have already invested a lot of money and, most importantly weapon systems in Iran. Russia has already sold them a missile system and I believe China has too. Now, both countries have a new type of anti ship cruise missile called the Onyx, which we currently have NO defense against. It is believed that, at least, some of these are already on Iranian soil!!
Iran is already expecting us to invade. Heck, we have not actually been quiet about it over the last couple of years!! My analysis of the current rhetoric coming out of Tehran suggests that they have already made substantial preparations for that eventually!!! I think they are waiting, all dug in.
Now, concerning that reactor, which is the crux of the entire matter. It belongs to Russia. Until it is paid for, it's their property!! I'm not sure they are gunna like seeing it blown up along with hundreds of their nationals, by us or the Israelis!! That event COULD bee seen as an act of war. I remember when I was a kid, living with the thought that the EVIL Soviets were going to launch a nuke attack at us any day!! I'm not anxious to go through that again and Russia has already announced the deployment of a new class of ICBMs!!!!
My point is: This ain't gunna be the cake walk that Iraq was!!
Prudence is suggested and I'm not sure if there really is anything we can do about it short of nuking the place, which invites retaliation from both the Chinese and the Soviets...er...I mean Russians!!!
From what I have been able to gather, it goes like this.
Both Russia and China have already invested a lot of money and, most importantly weapon systems in Iran. Russia has already sold them a missile system and I believe China has too. Now, both countries have a new type of anti ship cruise missile called the Onyx, which we currently have NO defense against. It is believed that, at least, some of these are already on Iranian soil!!
Iran is already expecting us to invade. Heck, we have not actually been quiet about it over the last couple of years!! My analysis of the current rhetoric coming out of Tehran suggests that they have already made substantial preparations for that eventually!!! I think they are waiting, all dug in.
Now, concerning that reactor, which is the crux of the entire matter. It belongs to Russia. Until it is paid for, it's their property!! I'm not sure they are gunna like seeing it blown up along with hundreds of their nationals, by us or the Israelis!! That event COULD bee seen as an act of war. I remember when I was a kid, living with the thought that the EVIL Soviets were going to launch a nuke attack at us any day!! I'm not anxious to go through that again and Russia has already announced the deployment of a new class of ICBMs!!!!
My point is: This ain't gunna be the cake walk that Iraq was!!
Prudence is suggested and I'm not sure if there really is anything we can do about it short of nuking the place, which invites retaliation from both the Chinese and the Soviets...er...I mean Russians!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html
There cannot be any doubt that they want nuclear weapons, and are planning on using them. On who? Obviously Israel. The Iranian leadership has broken all bounds of sanity in their worship of "pure islam" and the believe that the "end days" are upon us.
This needs to be stopped, violently and quickly.
My guess is that Israel will take care of the problem. Iran just bought 29 TOR M1 missle systems from Russia and I don't think Israel will just wait to launch an attack until after Iran takes delivery of them and gets those upgrades in their air defenses. Does anyone remember the US sold Israel bunker busters last year for just such a scenario?
U.S. OKs bunker buster bombs for Israel
April 27, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.
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The proposed deal, worth as much as $30 million, would provide Israel with the capability to drop 5,000-pound bombs that can penetrate bunkers and other buried structures. The GBU-28 bombs can be dropped from Israel's American-made F-15 fighters.
"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East," the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a press release.
Although the proposed sale will give Israel a significant new capability to attack underground targets, the agency said the move would not upset the balance of military power in the region.
"The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities," said John Pike, a military expert at Globalsecurity.org in Alexandria, Va.
The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.
April 27, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.
ADVERTISEMENT
The proposed deal, worth as much as $30 million, would provide Israel with the capability to drop 5,000-pound bombs that can penetrate bunkers and other buried structures. The GBU-28 bombs can be dropped from Israel's American-made F-15 fighters.
"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East," the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a press release.
Although the proposed sale will give Israel a significant new capability to attack underground targets, the agency said the move would not upset the balance of military power in the region.
"The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities," said John Pike, a military expert at Globalsecurity.org in Alexandria, Va.
The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
Whatever our response is, it needs to be a carefully measured one. To take on Iran militarily now, with our troops and equipment occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan, would be spreading our resources dangerously thin.
And this time, we'll need UN support
rolleyes: ) in a role other than back row cheerleaders.
And this time, we'll need UN support
rolleyes: ) in a role other than back row cheerleaders.Maybe the question ought to be...what is the United States "legally" allowed to do?
Please allow me to remind you that any action taken without first obtaining the permission of the the United Nations is "illegal" and "unjust".
Yeah, I know what you people are really up to, so you might as well stop the facade of concern about Iran developing a WMD. You just want their oil.
You oilmongers lie, and our kids die. :barf:
Here is my suggestion: lets spend a long time debating what should happen. Meanwhile, Iran will continue to work on developing a WMD. After we obtain undisputable proof (consisting of Iran successfully testing or using a WMD), then the UN can begin passing resolutions. We all know how seriously those UN resolutions are received. I would suggest waiting until the UN passes at least 15 or 20 resolutions. Then, years later, we must have a long debate in the UN about the "appropriate" action to take against Iran. But don't act yet! Remember, the United States will still need the UN's permission to act, and that will require additional debate and resolutions.
Please allow me to remind you that any action taken without first obtaining the permission of the the United Nations is "illegal" and "unjust".
Yeah, I know what you people are really up to, so you might as well stop the facade of concern about Iran developing a WMD. You just want their oil.
You oilmongers lie, and our kids die. :barf:
Here is my suggestion: lets spend a long time debating what should happen. Meanwhile, Iran will continue to work on developing a WMD. After we obtain undisputable proof (consisting of Iran successfully testing or using a WMD), then the UN can begin passing resolutions. We all know how seriously those UN resolutions are received. I would suggest waiting until the UN passes at least 15 or 20 resolutions. Then, years later, we must have a long debate in the UN about the "appropriate" action to take against Iran. But don't act yet! Remember, the United States will still need the UN's permission to act, and that will require additional debate and resolutions.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think that will happen. I can see a possible pullout from Afghanistan, but not from Iraq for multiple reasons. I can, however, see Iraq being used as a staging area for Iran.
Having spent a year in the Imperial Iranian Army (The Shah's), I can pretty confidently say that very few, if any, of us have any idea of the TRULY INSCRUTIBLE Iranian mind. I was there all thru the Iranian Revolution and it was my experience that NO ONE over here had a clue what was going on. That includes the US Govt which did not even have an American Farsi speaker in the Embassy, depended on Iranian translaters. The most ignorant American seemed to be our President and his State Department. Boy could I curl your hair with some monumental stupidity stories. The general public was none the wiser. I suspect that the same situation prevails today. Our Govt, and WE, are very likely totally ignorant of the Persian mind. All of us Americans in the IIAAF (Imperial Iranian Army Air Force) were daily surprised by the unpredictability of their minds. Bottom line, don't burn up much grey matter or ulcer makers in thinking about the situation there.
Israel has already blown up Iran's reactors once before. Since Iran's leaders have publically stated they want to eliminate Israel then it's up to Israel. Sharon's successor will likely have that decision to make when he takes office.
Iran has radical leadership but the people of Iran are not as radical. Nobody is saying they want to invade Iran or have a war with Iran. The citizens in Iran are already fairly Westernized so it isn't as though there is a Taleban like citizenry within Iran's borders. Iran's leaders are nuts but the population of Iran knows their nuts; the reactors just need to be blown up is all.
Or we can send secret agent Valerie Plame over to Iran and let her handle it single handed.
MicroBalrog
New member
The Iranians have in the past lost a war to the Iraqi army. This is undying testimony to the fighting ability of the Iranian soldier.
Although I believe the Iraq war was necessary, if not now it would have been, I think Bush made some serious mistakes in his methods of presenting that war to the country as the right thing to do. Now he has his eye on Iran. The difference is we KNOW they don't have nuclear weapons, yet. They are still in the developemental stages of their nuclear programs. That's not to say we shouldn't do something. Their president seems more than a little off his rocker and nukes in his hands would be a very bad thing, especially if you live in Israel.
The bottom line is I don't think Bush will be able to get much, if any, support for another war half a world away. There are so many families here who have waited for their troops and loved ones to come home now. They would be absolutely furious if we pulled the troops out of Iraq, just to send them next door. Plus, it will fuel the insurgency and the radical's claims that the U.S. is trying to dominate the muslim and islamic way of life with it's ideology.
Something needs to be done about Iran, yes. But not us. Let someone else take care of other people's problems for once. Keep our noses out of this one at least to consolidate and reorganize. We only have so much of a military, how can we keep the peace in 6 or 7 countries like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Europe (Sarajevo) at the same time. My information may be a little off, i'm not positive we have troops in all those countries still, but you get my point.
Why do we ALWAYS have to play superhero. Are we the only country willing to fight for other's freedom? I vote stay out of this one so we can bury our dead here at home.
The bottom line is I don't think Bush will be able to get much, if any, support for another war half a world away. There are so many families here who have waited for their troops and loved ones to come home now. They would be absolutely furious if we pulled the troops out of Iraq, just to send them next door. Plus, it will fuel the insurgency and the radical's claims that the U.S. is trying to dominate the muslim and islamic way of life with it's ideology.
Something needs to be done about Iran, yes. But not us. Let someone else take care of other people's problems for once. Keep our noses out of this one at least to consolidate and reorganize. We only have so much of a military, how can we keep the peace in 6 or 7 countries like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Europe (Sarajevo) at the same time. My information may be a little off, i'm not positive we have troops in all those countries still, but you get my point.
Why do we ALWAYS have to play superhero. Are we the only country willing to fight for other's freedom? I vote stay out of this one so we can bury our dead here at home.
I agree with tegemu. I spent 7 years in Iran working for their miltary, survived the revolution, and was married to an Iranian for 16 years. There's no way of knowing what they're thinking. I work with, and know many Iraninans here in Abu Dhabi. they all hate their government and are waiting for the inevitable change to come. Keep in mind, that 75% of the population is under 25 years old and they are fed up with the Ayatollahs, they see the world on the internet and satellite TV passing them by, and they are frustrated by this. this demographic time bomb worries the govenment and they know that time is not on their side. Most Iranians I know are very nice, and they just try to live their lives as best they can and always find ways to do what they want even under the eyes as the gov't.
What this new president has been spouting has been for domestic political comsumption, leaders in this part of the world all have big mouths.
I say let Europe handle this, it's in their backyard and they've been kissing a** for years.
What this new president has been spouting has been for domestic political comsumption, leaders in this part of the world all have big mouths.
I say let Europe handle this, it's in their backyard and they've been kissing a** for years.
I don't think somebody will try to act.
IMHO, Israel can not do it. There is nothing common between bombing Iraqi reactor 25 years ago and the current Iranian situation. There was only one clear target, now targets are scattered all over Iran and well defended in catacombs. Bombing just does not make sense. Not mentioning that Iran can retaliate with rocket strike, which is the last thing that Israel needs. And the last but not least: Israel is not the same country it was 25 years ago.
Ditto about American Air force. In this case Iran can not answer, but still bombs can not do much. Iranians made conclusions from Saddam's stupidity, and concealed their facilities in rocks.
What's left? Ground invasion of US forces does not seem real when fighting in Iraq and Afganistan continues. I think that only economic embargo can impress them. It helped with Libya, it can help with Iran.
IMHO, Israel can not do it. There is nothing common between bombing Iraqi reactor 25 years ago and the current Iranian situation. There was only one clear target, now targets are scattered all over Iran and well defended in catacombs. Bombing just does not make sense. Not mentioning that Iran can retaliate with rocket strike, which is the last thing that Israel needs. And the last but not least: Israel is not the same country it was 25 years ago.
Ditto about American Air force. In this case Iran can not answer, but still bombs can not do much. Iranians made conclusions from Saddam's stupidity, and concealed their facilities in rocks.
What's left? Ground invasion of US forces does not seem real when fighting in Iraq and Afganistan continues. I think that only economic embargo can impress them. It helped with Libya, it can help with Iran.