So, what did you carry this week?

student of firearms

I think I see a tendency for the martial artists to surface and view the enthusiast and hobby shooter with a bit of disdain. The old adage of "beware the man with one gun" may well be true, ...........or it may not. Carry more than one "platform" and you are a fashion statement. The hard core, trained up, the gun is just a tool folks, drag out their catch phrases, recite the only way to do things, and look down upon those less informed or having less insight.

Not everyone has the opportunity to attend a shooting school and gain the benefits of force on force training and experience deadly force situations as part of the job. A level of competency with a wide range of firearms, acquired thru personal interest, shooting sports and a bit of training, I think makes for a well rounded shooter and one just as likely to survive an encounter as the "one gun" martial artist types. In fact, my own observations of LEO's in mixed competition is that a lot of them can't shoot near as well as the hobby shooters. If we're going to examine stress and muscle memory sort of things, how do we know that "our" platform will be the one with which we finish and win the fight? Guns break, take rounds and get disabled or have cartridge case head fails. In a prolonged fight (yeah not likely, but so is the likelihood of being in any fight, period) hopefully get replaced with pickups from other officers, maybe even the bad guys, which may or may not be "your" platform.

You better be able to run a Glock, they're common. Same with the 1911 and DA revolvers. So to the AR .....AND....heaven forbid, the AK. And ,there were so many SKS's sold in my area for under $100 bucks, I think everybody in the state must have one. Don't forget all the shotgun types.

Better to be students of the gun, than specialists with a gun.
 
Currently during the colder months when I can easily conceal a compact under a jacket / hoodie / sweatshirt, I wear the Beretta Nano with a N82 Tactical Pro holster IWB . Combo works very well for me. I shoot the Nano very well.




During the summer Tee shirt weather I pocket carry the Kimber Micro 380 in the Desantis Nemasis . I'm a very thin build so full concealment of the Nano under a Tee doesn't work well for me.

 
The hard core, trained up, the gun is just a tool folks, drag out their catch phrases, recite the only way to do things, and look down upon those less informed or having less insight.
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That may be a little dramatic. I dont think anyone in this thread has suggested "the only way" to do things.

Being critical of practices, conditions and circumstaces which are considered by some to be potentially distructive, is not really distain or "looking down". To take it that way seems overly sensitive.


Not everyone has the opportunity to attend a shooting school and gain the benefits of force on force training and experience deadly force situations as part of the job.
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Sure.. which is why its generally a good idea to be open and welcoming to criticism from people do have had the benefit of training and or practical expereince realted to the subject matter.

A level of competency with a wide range of firearms, acquired thru personal interest, shooting sports and a bit of training, I think makes for a well rounded shooter and one just as likely to survive an encounter as the "one gun" martial artist types.
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Being a good shot and being good at gun handling is not the same being good at fighting. When I say fighting, I am talking about lawful armed self defense against a criminal attacker. I am talking about "combat".

Tactics and strategics can easily make up for less impressive shooting skill but it does not often work the other way around. Absolute marksmanship is rarely the deciding factor in many conflicts. It is tactics and practical knowledge/judgment which usually wins the day, even when the opposition may be fundamentally superior.

In fact, my own observations of LEO's in mixed competition is that a lot of them can't shoot near as well as the hobby shooters.
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Sure.. I dont doubt that at all. I have trained with some elite shooters who hail from the gun game arena. Those I have trained with did not fair to well in force on force. At leat not until they became squared away in their fighting tactics and how to construct a proper defense in fast moving enviroment. You don't typically gain that type of knowledge from running a stage.

If we're going to examine stress and muscle memory sort of things, how do we know that "our" platform will be the one with which we finish and win the fight?
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We dont know.. but what we do know is that muddy water is not all that clear. That is why most people who simply select a platform and then invest in it. There is nothing wrong with a back up plan or a varying platform but when it become a "gun of the day" or "gun of the week" kind of thing, its may no longer be a practical attribute. There can certainly be a point of diminished returns when it comes to carrying 4, 5 , 9 different handguns on a regular basis.

Guns break, take rounds and get disabled or have cartridge case head fails. In a prolonged fight (yeah not likely, but so is the likelihood of being in any fight, period) hopefully get replaced with pickups from other officers, maybe even the bad guys, which may or may not be "your" platform.
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Most gun fights are going to be over in mere seconds. I wont call it fantasy but unless you are on a large scale battlefield, the idea of exploiting the use of "pick-up" is exceedignly remote. I don't consider that scenario a good reason to carry half a dozen different guns on a regular basis. Trained habit action, training scars and muscle memory are all real issues. It does usually require a balance.

...but sure, everyone should probably have a decent "idea" of how to use a glock, revolver, shotgun no matter if they own one or not. It doesnt mean you need to carry 5 different guns per week.

Better to be students of the gun, than specialists with a gun.
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quips, mantra's and related idioms are not what I base my self defense initiatives on.
 
I attended a carbine course a while back and my AR system rifle crapped out on me really bad ( I damaged the gas system) and I didn't have enough mags for my back up gun. A buddy gave me his back up and mags which was a AK variant. Even under superficial stress, I flubbed a couple of basic tasks and had to perform certain articulations (twice) because I naturally gave in to muscle memory and trained habit action. I did this probably 3 times during the same module. These errors could easily have been measurably problematic if it were a real fight.
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You have a valid point, but how accustomed are you to an AK? It sounds like you are predominantly an AR shooter and when someone gave you and AK, you didn't have the proper manual of arms motions for that rifle burned in (muscle memory as much as I hate that term) to the same level.

I carry both a semi-auto and a revolver. I practice a lot with both. Not always the same exact guns I carry, but guns with similar manual or arms. I can go back and forth easily with no false moves. I can also do the same thing with an AR and AK. It's because I do a lot of repetitions with those guns. With a lot of practice, you can use different guns. With a lot of practice, you brain will intuitively know which gun you are holding. But you definitely need to commit to practicing regularly with all and not favor a favorite (dry fire and dry weapons manipulation counts if you are doing it correctly and consistently!)

To your point though, I drive a manual trans car exclusively. When I occasionally get into a rented car or work vehicle with an automatic, I'm looking for the gear shift. When I shoot a semi-auto handgun with a heal mag release, I look for the mag drop button (this is also why I never use a slide release lever and I never want a Colt revolver with their backwards cylinder latch). That's because I have uneven practice with those.
 
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The hard core, trained up, the gun is just a tool folks, drag out their catch phrases, recite the only way to do things, and look down upon those less informed or having less insight.
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I don't.

Not everyone has the opportunity to attend a shooting school and gain the benefits of force on force training ....
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No, not everyone, but there are many more people who could do so than there are who do.

A level of competency with a wide range of firearms, acquired thru personal interest, shooting sports and a bit of training,...
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"A level" of competency may not cut it.

And if one can invest in a "wide range of firearms", one can afford training.

...I think makes for a well rounded shooter and one just as likely to survive an encounter as the "one gun" martial artist types.
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A well rounded shooter" may not be sufficiently proficient in defensive shooting.

"Martial artist types"?

In fact, my own observations of LEO's in mixed competition is that a lot of them can't shoot near as well as the hobby shooters.
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Off topic.

Also, "hobby shooting " and proficient defensive shooting are different things.

If we're going to examine stress and muscle memory sort of things, how do we know that "our" platform will be the one with which we finish and win the fight?
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Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but the defender will use what he is carrying, and if it is not what he carried yesterday, he will have to adjust accordingly, and that takes time that may not be available. And yes, muscle memory is indeed part of the equation.

Better to be students of the gun, than specialists with a gun.
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How's that?
 
Pretty much every day except Sunday, Glock 45 OWB, with 2 spare 17 rd magazines. On Sunday, Sig P365 in strong side pocket with spare 12 rd magazine.
 
You have a valid point, but how accustomed are you to an AK? It sounds like you are predominantly an AR shooter and when someone gave you and AK, you didn't have the proper manual of arms motions for that rifle burned in (muscle memory as much as I hate that term) to the same level.
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You are likely fooling yourself if you believe that muscle memory can be evenly distributed across the cerebellum. Even if it were, it doesn't necessarily mitigate lines of habit or trained habit action which may form in the basal ganglia. When you add life/safety type danger, you are introducing a very specific kind of stress which can hinder, cloud and disrupt processes substantially. There are people who during times life threatening danger,.. cannot even remember their address to tell a 911 operator. A person who has lived in a home for 15 years gave his previous address on the other side of town when calling for police assistance during a home invasion. Police responded to the wrong location. Sure.. roll the dice and hope that during substantial stress, your brain accepts that you are telling it that you have a 1911 and not the glock you trained with last night. In my opinion, the gun of the day or gun of the week is just silly business. Fun? sure.. Entertaining? why not. Practical and prudent?.. not really, not if you consider your gun a weapon rather than some sort of bauble. That's just my take on it. Others may feel differently and I have no beef with that at all.

Regularly carrying multiple guns of varying operational characteristics is simply affording your brain another happenstance option during hyper neuron activity(stress). As important as self defense actually is to most of us, I find it exceedingly curious that so many people seemingly want to justify this whole gun of the day nonsense. I am not suggesting that someone stop doing what makes them feel good about their hobby. I am merely suggesting that it could be a problem if it ever becomes go-time.

I can go back and forth easily with no false moves. I can also do the same thing with an AR and AK.
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great! good luck, perhaps none of these issues apply to you. Still, I offer my thoughts for those who may be receptive to what I have said.

you didn't have the proper manual of arms
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come on man.. who talks like that? Its not the late 1700's
 
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Ithaca model 37

My 12 ga. was made in 1946 with many honest nicks, dings and scratches from being in the brambles and occasionally thick blackberry thorns when I miscalculate a route.

I also carried pheasant dinner home this week.
 
stinkeypete said:
Ithaca model 37

My 12 ga. was made in 1946 with many honest nicks, dings and scratches from being in the brambles and occasionally thick blackberry thorns when I miscalculate a route.

I also carried pheasant dinner home this week.
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First time I shot an Ithica 37 12 gauge, was at the NYC Police range on City Island.
The fact that you could hold the trigger back, keep pumping, AND it keeps firing, great.

Plus the bottom load, and eject, reloading in pitch black of night, just turn it upside down in your right hand, and load with your left, purely by feel.
Do not know the barrel length on that riot gun, but it was short.
 
Well, currently I'm heeled with a Smith M66 and some of my home cast hollow points against the remote possibility that one of the local skunks that have been encouraging my pointer to come out for a tussle shows up in today's 24 degree weather....hey, I caught a sniff last night at 2100...gosh knows what he's doing out there. Pic below.

But for the rest of the preceding week, short of a trip to the Post Office, I carried a Sig 365 in an OWB of my own making. Enough, donchaknow, and not too much to be considered a suburban ninja.

YMMv, Rod

 
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Certainly we all realize that self defense is not pretty and rarely remains confined to our imagined perameters. That said, if you were to land on your rear-end during a scuffle or whatever, is that gun going to stay in its holster. Honestly, that rig looks like a strong wind might be cause for concern.

Maybe not you personally but "people" tend to believe violence to be something that noticeably develops in an expected manner. That is develops in a manner or pace which affords them the opportunity to ready themselves.

I consider that belief to be rather naïve.
 
Honestly, that rig looks like a strong wind might be cause for concern.
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Thanks for the opinion, Fire...I've been thrown from a horse and once from a hay wagon wearing a similar rig...I fit 'em tight and I don't get down and brawl anymore at 73 years old...we're pretty much farmers here and contend with city thugs with about the same regularity that we're hit by falling satellites. The holster is my rendition of the old Tom Threepersons open top design...and fitted the same way. YMMv. Rod
 
I am very boring now that I am retired and since it cooled off here. I have been mostly carrying my Glock 27.3 that I have had for over 15 years. I shoot a couple times per week with several different guns, but the G27 just works for me. I'll admit that I do carry a G43 and a S&W 66-5 on occasion when it's hot outside.
 
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