So, the worst has happened.

Y

Yankee Doodle

New member
Just as a point of discussion.
You were walking down the street at 10:00 PM. As you passed an alley, you were struck from behind, dragged into the alley, and knocked to the ground. Looking up, you saw a person with a knife standing over you, demanding your money. You are armed with your usual CCW.

1. What actions are you legally justified to take?
2. If you use deadly physical force, what do you do next?
3. Do you really know the law in your location as it pertains to use of force?
4. What do you say to the Police when they arrive?

Not trying to prove anything here, just trying to start a discussion.
 
I would wake up from that bad dream and get some water. The only time I'm walking at 10.00PM is with 1-3 dogs, who would go berserk before anyone came close.


Rodney the killer wiener dog would already have savaged his ankles like nobody's business, and Tbone the Terror would have waddled up and "marked" him thoroughly. :cool:
 
I'll play:

1. Come on - don't you know the laws of your state? I think everywhere you could use lethal force.

2. On your back, assuming you have your senses and able to access your firearm - what do you think? The guy has to bend over to get to you. Training helps - in my youth, in martial arts classes, we practiced with our legs keeping someone off you. Now you might be cut as you get ready to shoot the guy.

3. See number 1 - if you carry a gun and don't know the law - you have quite silly.

4. Discussed endless times - search on Ayoob and what to say - someone can do that, if they wish - but if you are injured - be sure to point this out and demand medical care. Roll the EMTS. If you are knocked on the head, don't play tough guy. People get knocked on the head and then drop dead a day later. Go to the Hospital as a victim.

Also, if you see an alley - give it wide berth as you go by. General alertness, helps.
 
Okay, I understand the reasoning you used in trying to ask such a question; but your circumstances are ridiculous.

You were walking down the street at 10:00 PM. As you passed an alley, you were struck from behind, dragged into the alley, and knocked to the ground. Looking up, you saw a person with a knife standing over you, demanding your money.
Click to expand...

You really could have shortened this to:
"If you were attacked, AND you were an idiot; how would you react?"

I don't just go walking down streets and blindly walk past alleyways in the middle of the night. I am one of the last people this would ever happen to.

BUT, in the sense of answering your question...

IF you have time, space, and opportunity, you are perfectly justified in using your firearm to defend yourself. Right after, you call the police. You tell them that you were attacked and you used your properly licensed firearm to defend yourself and to send units and medical respondants.

~LT

PS- There is a standing rule against pure scenario threads.
 
Legally justified or not, at this point I am drawing and firing. If he's a little too close for comfort, wrap legs, effect a take-down (using my legs), continue follow through from successful leg take-down & roll away to feet or knees - draw and fire. if I was feeling frisky, I could attempt to disarm, but very risky. Hypothetically, of course.

But to answer the actual questions:

1. At this point, I believe you would be justified in just about anything to keep yourself from harm. "Duty to retreat" has been met, as its not possible.

2. Call 911, check for life signs, inform as to status of attacker, and self

3. If I have been attacked, and am currently at the mercy of someone who could & would stab me repeatedly for the $20 i usually carry - I really don't give a damn. That whole "judged by 12 or carried by 6" thing.

4. Exactly what happened.
 
Looking up, you saw a person with a knife standing over you, demanding your money.
Click to expand...

I would say, "No thanks, I already own a quality knife set at home":D

But seriously, shoot the crazy guy, call the cops, go to the hospital.
 
I usually walk through the alleys or avoid them, never do I casually walk by them. I also don't carry a gun so...

If I'm conscious when he drags me in, I am going to draw my knife and cut him away from me and run to the closest, safest place and call for an Ambulance.

If I wake up to someone standing over me with a knife, I'm likely to be dreaming or watching from the afterlife. The situation turned from assault to basically "kidnapping" (can't think of a better term). It's far more likely that you will be stabbed and never know by who or why.
 
Posted by Stressfire: Could you elaborate?


From Post #3:

Discussed endless times - search on Ayoob and what to say - someone can do that, if they wish -
Click to expand...

What to say is described here, starting at about the two minute mark. Say no more than that.

The reason that you do not want to go into detail at the time and without counsel is that, because of physiological and emotional effects that will have started the instant the encounter began and that will still be affecting you for hours, your initial recollections are quite likely to be inaccurate. Discrepancies between those initial statements and other evidence can paint you as a liar and therefore as a likely crook.
 
Man with a knife who struck me on the head from behind and drug me into an alley justifies lethal force just about anywhere.

If I used deadly force, a likely outcome, I call police and render aid to the attacker if safe to do so.

Laws in my area are pretty clear in this situation and they make lethal force an option without the need to retreat.

I listen to commands from the officers, to avoid confusing as to who the attacker and threat is. I pretty much keep my mouth shut except to say that I want the attacker arrested and I want my attorney.
 
Kick, draw, shoot, etc.
Yes, I know the laws. (This scenario is extreme enough to get covered under lethal force in every state law I have ever read.)

Escape to well lit/safe location, and call the police/EMTs. Once they arrive, give them the basic run-down on what happened. Tell them, that I will cooperate, but I want medical treatment and a lawyer first, as I am a bit put off by getting hit in the back of the head and having to defend myself!
 
You were walking down the street at 10:00 PM. As you passed an alley, you were struck from behind, dragged into the alley, and knocked to the ground. Looking up, you saw a person with a knife standing over you, demanding your money. You are armed with your usual CCW.
Click to expand...

I would say being in condition yellow ( paying attention to ones surroundings) this situation should not have happened.
To humor you, if you can draw your weapon before being stabbed shoot to stop the threat and if necessary until you are out of ammo if that is what it takes to stop the threat.:eek: Duh-huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thanks for the link.

Once they arrive, give them the basic run-down on what happened. Tell them, that I will cooperate, but I want medical treatment and a lawyer first, as I am a bit put off by getting hit in the back of the head and having to defend myself!
Click to expand...

^That's about as in-depth as I would get - basic rundown
 
This scenario is exactly why I do not like pocket carry. The OP said looking up, so you are on your back. A kick to the nads, if possible, as you draw your gun from the 4:00 position is about as good as this can be. Your hand is going to be right at your weapon.
 
Well, not to let this drag out too long, the question posed was based upon an actual incident that occured in 1967 to a member of my family.
My uncle was leaving his business (liquor store) when hit from behind and dragged as I said. When the money was demanded, he cooperatively, and slowly reached into his hip pocket and instead of a wallet, came up with a Colt 2" Det. Special.
At the sight of the gun, the attempted robber turned in his tracks and fled the scene. (Probably didn't like the idea of bringing a knife to a gunfight)
Unk got to his feet, got to a payphone, and called for help.
Total damage was 2 stiches in the scalp. No money lost. No one shot. No lawyer needed. No one apprehended either. In all probability he just blended into the woodwork. Not really a great neighborhood.
I guess what I was trying to bring out is that sometimes the mere appearance of a weapon is enough to end the situation. Had he shot the dude while he was running away, he would done a good bit of State time. Once they flee, the threat has ended. He was told by the investigating Detective, in no uncertain terms, that had he fired, all the entry holes had better have been in the front.
I really can't think of a better ending to this situation.
God Bless, & may you never have to go through this yourself.
 
Tucking tail and running at the sight of a pistol would be ideal. However, Ayoob has written and testified about just how fast an attacker can turn and run away (or at least start to) - often after you have already begun to pull the trigger.

I believe it was in one of 2 sources - his book Truth About Self-Protection or a writeup in June's issue of Combat Handguns, the one with the Ruger SR1911 on the cover. TBH, I couldn't tell you which, I read both at the same time:confused:

If you don't have either a very good investigator or an expert to testify on your behalf, all of a sudden it looks like you shot the BG in the back.
 
I always throw a flash bomb into every ally entryway I come upon just cause of this.


Shoot the guy, what other option ya got?
 
Empty my magazine into him before he hit the ground. Reload. Call Police. Lawyer-up. F...uh,er, forget him.:mad: I'm alive...he ain't.
 
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