So Should The Brave IRA Freedom Fighters Hand In THEIR Weapons ?

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it may not be a war to you, but... if it lokks like a war and people are being killed and political/religious ideas are at the root. it looks and sounds and smeels like a war to me. check your history, many of the battles of the American Revolution were fought between Revolutionaries/patriots and Tories that were loyal to the crown. American killed American, believe it! as far as bombs in public places that is another story. if the first revoluton had failed and our founding fathers hung and jailed i would like to think the patriots that remained free would have use ANY means at their disposial to kick the British out. something the Irish have been trying to do for 400 years.


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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
Of course they shouldn't hand over their arms. The British government should be forced to respect human rights for a change. It might save the rest of the U.K. and its rump Empire as well.
Does anybody else get the feeling that they are rewachting the last days of Constantinople here?

[This message has been edited by Herodotus (edited May 11, 2000).]
 
I hate to put a kink in your little Brit-Irish flame war going on here (incidentially, i used to think the IRA terrorists, i have since changed my mind), but the IRA isn't turning in their weapons, they are being smart about it...
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/132/nation/IRA_fights_internal_rifts_over_weapons+.shtml

[snippit]
Since the IRA offered on Saturday to allow international
inspectors to check its arms dumps, part of a process it said
was aimed at putting the weapons ''beyond use,'' most
attention in London, Dublin, Washington, and other capitals
has focused on whether unionists will accept the IRA
proposal. But a more important long-term question is
whether the IRA can sell the idea to a large enough segment
of its own members to avoid a split that could wreck the peace
process.

...

But Murphy's skepticism, sources say, has been offset by Brian
Keenan, the IRA's Belfast commander who is widely regarded
as the most influential member of the Army Council. Keenan
remains a firm backer of Sinn Fein's strategy, according to
security and republican sources. They say Keenan has pushed
hardest for keeping the IRA's weapons locked up and under
international scrutiny rather than turning them in or
destroying them, which most IRA members would view as an
act of surrender.

...

[/snippit]


It seems to me there are a couple points to be made here:

1) Whereas, Britain has already proven itself to being a Socialist country, the Irish already have 'one foot in that coffin'. They think like socialists, to a certain extent.

2) As such, the IRA leadership will not win anything by holding onto RKBA philosophy, when their intention is to normalize relations with the Crown. I doubt the IRA leadership feels it has the support to wage rebellion much longer.

3) Not-with-standing, the 'rank and file' are not in favor of disarming, and wouldn't stand for it.

4) Therefore, this is a compromise, and more importantly, a media ploy. I could prove successful for the Irish. I cannot honestly believe that the Irish would disarm. It simply doesn't make any sense. No intellectually honest person would argue that the IRA would get anything they wanted if they did disarm. Atleast thats what the people of Sierra Leone are saying. :) This seems to me pandering to the meek factions of the media, inorder to win favorable coverage.

I do not think I would personally favor this kind of bovine excriment move in our case. We in the US, most of us anywhoo, still understand the benifits of an armed populous, the Brits (and most other factions of the UK) haven't for 400 years.

~USP
 
So, this is the thing. I am reminded of a public radio broadcast a couple of years back about how things were in Ireland. Talk of how you couldn't walk a baby on the streets in the evening air without being afraid of a group of Brit soldiers coming by and barely giving you enough time to jerk the baby out of the pram before they tore it to shreds looking for weapons. The IRA give up their weapons? I don't think so. The Brits stopping looking for weapons even if they are told there are none there? I don't think so. Keep your guns guys. The wife.
 
It seems that many people here have ideas about the IRA but no one has told the story about why the IRA is even in existance . I think if everyone knew the entire history they would sympathize with them a bit more . They are what they are because they must and they do the things they do because they must AND they act like they act because they must .
Think about this for a few minutes and tell me to what lengths you would go do undo the following scenario .
Me and 10 of my well armed friends decide to crash into your home . We subdue you and your family . For the sake of this exercise your family consists of the average Daddy , Mommy and 3 children .We kick your butt and take your wife . We then move our families and friends in also . We take your property and give your childrens toys to our children . Your kids can't eat enough or play . We take your families clothes and let you wear rags . Your children cannot be educated . If anyone tries to educate them they will be shot on the spot . Unfair ? Lets see . The world does not care to change this since we have been there for quite a while now . How about an election . Your family says we should go . That's 5 votes . We say we should stay . That's about 25 votes . We had a Democratic election . You lost . Too bad . Now 15 generations have passed . We now outnumber you 500 to 50 . You want another election ? We would gladly embarrass you at the polls again . Still want us out ? Enter the IRA .
Now. Who would you kill to free your family ? How would you draw attention to your plight . How about a press conference . Don't think so . An ad in all the papers of the world . They already know and won't step in . After all these generations the oppressors are residents . Citizens if you will with no control of how they got there . They would no more give all back than we would give up the U.S. and go back to England , Germany , Africa or wherever we first originated from . The IRA is basically the American Indian Movement with a brogue .They have been greviously wronged but much time has passed and the world is comfortable with the status quo .
They are Marxists to the same extent that the Pilgrims were communists . ( They were ) They all pulled together for the common good . Shared food , work and danger . When Sunday came they all worshipped together no matter what religion they were . When there were more of them then they went their separate ways . The IRA has a common goal so they must work in unison . Kinda like " Gung Ho ." They are between a rock and a hard spot . The only advantage to that position is that whenever you strike out in anger you are bound to hit an enemy . Your friends are so few .
It's a bad thing to see but it's there and they must live it everyday . We get to talk about it in the abstract .
NEXT !!!

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TOM SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
Apart from the almost laughable idea of Americans taking the high moral ground when discussing "Freedom", how on earth can ANY American justify supporting the IRA? Not only are they Marxist-Leninist Communists, but also murdering, ambushing mindless thugs. They are not heroes, gents....
Americans wouldn't murder another American because of their religion? I thought Waco proved beyond doubt that it *could* happen.
Have any of you who have swallowed the IRA's propoganda actually *lived* in Northern Ireland? The 'sides' are not quite as clearly defined as you might think. Every Protestant family has Catholic relatives...every Catholic family has Protestant relatives. Many families, both Catholic and Protestant have sons and daughters serving in the British Army. Many families in the Republic of Ireland have sons and daughters serving in the British Army. Many IRA "freedom fighters" are ex-British Army.
 
As the person who posted this thread I've read the replies with interest. Whilst not wanting to get embroiled in the political debate I will say this. To critize the British for what they have done in Northern Ireland is more than a little harsh. In the two world wars many in the North and South openly sided with the Nazis, the British responded in a predictable, but for the time, not unreasonable manner to people who were their self proclaimed enemy. Later, after the fall of the Third Reich, these same people allied themselves with Marxist philosophies in their fight against "tyranny", during which they dragged their own people kicking and screaming from their homes and did far worse things than just beat them. One Catholic mother of 8 children was executed for offering a few words of comfort to a shot and dying British soldier. Remember also how we "civilized" Americans extracted a young Cuban boy from his Miami home at the end of a machine gun, and how the Vietnamese residents of My Lai view our own troops peculiar method of searching homes for terrorist weapons by raping and then executing the female residents but not before cutting out their tongues with bayonets, real nice. The British shoot 13 rioters who were throwing bricks and Molotov Cocktails at them after first coming under gunfire themselves, and people are still bleating about "Bloody Sunday", hey, here's a hot tip, if you don't want to get shot, don't throw bricks and bombs at armed soldiers, or me for that matter.

The British don't want to be anywhere near Northern Ireland, they hate the place and with just cause. But if they were to abandon it to the resident factions (something which they are attempting to do anyway), a blood bath would ensue, this would be followed by the rise of a particularly unpleasant regional dictatorship, the like of which does not exist further North than the African continent. You decide.

Mike H
 
i remember reading of a war in the US. in this war most of the officers on the losing side were once Union officers. there was not a family in this country that was not touched by death in that war. civilian populations suffered death by fire, bombardment and starvation. brother fought brother all for what they thought was right and just. my family fought in that war also. we were on the losing side but that does not mean our cause was evil or a disease or that they were traitors or terrorists. these posts should show one thing. here in America we can not even agree about the situation in Ireland except it seems pretty much agreed that NOBODY is going to turn in thier guns. nuff said.

------------------
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
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