So much anger

J

Judge Blackhawk

New member
Well it has been awhile since I have been online and I must say that I am a bit disappointed.

I understand that somepeople have had bad experiences with Kimber 1911 and other manufacturers but Kimber seems to be the target of most negative comments.

Well I have had bad experiences with Dodge trucks, but did they fix it, yes after about 10 trips to the service department for 4 different dealers. Would I buy a Dodge absolutely.

We are dealing with machines here people. Nothing is perfect.

One guy who was complaining about Kimber and then said they sent him a brand new gun. What more could Kimber have done?

I have had bad experiences with browning arms, but would I buy their products, YES for sure.

Get over it people, this is supposed to be a fun experience. If I want negative I will go to CNN, ABC or the likes.

Judge Blackhawk
 
You said it, Jedge! :)

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
 
Judge, yes, they DID replace the gun, however, everyone seems to ignore that they'd tried to weasel out of it and only did it when I threatened them (both by letters to magazines and by the BBB)did they do what they said. If Dodge did that, I wouldn't buy a Dodge either. I guess integrity is something I might as well give up on, and if a company treats me like dirt, I should just smile and tell everyone how good the B.S. tastes?
 
FWIW, in most cases when a truck doesn't work, you lose some time and money. When a gun doesn't work...??

Jim
 
FWIW Jim, anyone who doesn't thoroughly wring a gun out before staking their life on it is a fool.
NONE of my guns get carried or used for any sort of defense till I make damn sure they are reliable with the ammo they are gonna be loaded with.
 
Frontsight I am never one for taking any form of b.s. from a company. But as a former private attorney I can say first hand that companies make mistakes. Hell people make mistakes. I buy what I like, period, when I like. Yes some companies are more prone to mistakes than others, look at retailing and the big three store chains, they are not perfect but they seem to make most people happy.

It all comes down to peoples expectations and their preconcieved notions and biases. Let me for example use a new movie, any movie, that a friend tells you is the best he/she has ever seen, and you get the movie built up to ever higher expectations. When you see the movie you are expecting the finest use of film to ever be made. You have higher expecations than what the movie could possibly meet and you are resoundly disappointed.

I believe this has happened to many firearm companies. Especially Kimber, first I think most people expect Kimbers to be custom guns just like from a gunsmith that costs 2500 dollars. Well it aint so. You get what you pay for, and with Kimber you get a lot for the money but you do NOT get a full fledged custom gun from a NRA gunsmith. But you get a good gun that can always be made better.

Remember the salesman pitch, it is just like a Mercedes Benz..... well if it JUST LIKE, then why isnt..... smile....

We have grown to believe that Kimbers are perfect becuase everyone for the last years has sung their praises. Well if you want a gun just like a 2500 dollar gunsmith can give you, then I suggest start saving your pennies. Otherwise, just like, rarely is....

Merry Christmas.

Judge Blackhawk
 
It is true that if one wants a custom style 1911 ie: comparable to a Les Baer or Wilson - Do not expect it from an out of the box kimber at half the price. I was one who initially believed the hype and bought a couple Kimbers. Worth the price? yes, but NOT in the running to the aforementioned customs. That being said, there were a few problems with the 2nd kimber I bought and customer service was not what it could have been, not by a long shot. After having spent the money for a few mods and considering the time spent - well, I'll probably add a couple hundred to it next time and get a Wilson, Baer or Bureau model Springfield. If a person was interested solely in a rock steady side arm for personal defense under $600 - buy a Glock.
 
I believe any company can make a mistake, nobody is perfect. But what makes the difference is how the company reacts to the mistake. A good company will WANT to take care of the problem and make the customer happy as quickly as possible. And other companies will "get to your problem one of these days, when it is convienent for us."
I do not own a Kimber, so I can't comment one way or the other. This is just my $.02.
 
I think every handgun manufacturer has taken some lumps on the BB's for one thing or another. I really don't see a problem with it.

I, for one, like to hear people's experiences with the different brands and customer service. I think we are all the smarter for it. It seems that a lot of consumers (not just shooters) settle for products that don't work like they should. Many won't take the time to tell the manufacturer they are unhappy with the product and demand refunds or repairs. That failure breeds complacency and mediocracy. I think it is healthy for industry and for consumers to demand their money's worth.

I'm not saying that if you pay $700 for a new Kimber you should get a gun in the class of a Wilson, Baer, or a custom race gun, but you should get a firearm that functions as it was designed. One that functions reliably with hollowpoints and ball, one that goes bang when you pull the trigger, and one that locks back the slide after the final shot. I think there is a problem if you spend $700+ and don't get that.

Of course any manufacturer will put out a lemon from time to time, but it shouldn't be with any regularity. Believe me, if I am going to pay that kind of money for a handgun it darn well better work.

I don't believe a consumer who buys a product should have to pay a dime more to get a product that functions as it should. Paying for shipping back to a manufacturer is substandard. Paying for parts or labor is substandard. Paying $$$$ for long distance phone bills to get the problem resolved is substandard. Having to threaten a manufacturer to get them to repair or replace a defective product is substandard. In short, a manufacturer should stand behind their products. Shake

[This message has been edited by Shake (edited December 23, 1999).]
 
Judge Blackhawk,
What do I say to you? Get off your high-horse, and quit telling people what to do. If someone doesn't want to buy a product from a company because they feel they have been wronged, then they shouldn't. Personally, if I had a Dodge with that many problems I HIGHLY doubt I would ever buy one again, but that is MY opinion, and I am entitled(and I like Dodge cars). And if I want to come online and knock products I do not like, that as well, is MY right. Don't expect others to conform to be the same type of consumer you are.
If you don't want negative, then LEAVE, cuz we have a right to express negative opinions and experiences here, just as you have a right to express yours. If you don't like it fine, but don't criticize us for it.
MHO
-Aaron
 
Beretta Boy, you said:

>>If you don't want negative, then LEAVE, cuz we have a right to express negative opinions and experiences here, just as you have a right to express yours. If you don't like it fine, but don't criticize us for it.<<

Look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary. You are telling Judge that he can't criticize you but you can criticize him. He has the right to tell you he doesn't like you being so critical just as you have the right to say you think it is fine to be critical.
 
>>If you don't want negative, then LEAVE, cuz we have a right to express negative opinions and experiences here, just as you have a right to express yours. If you don't like it fine, but don't criticize us for it.<<

LOL... I see what you mean. But I beleive you are misunderstanding what I am saying. what I meant was, we all have a right to express criticism, so why should he criticize our criticism? And he said "If I want negative I will go to CNN, ABC or the likes" ... so I was not saying he doesn't have a right to be here, just that if he wants to go, GOOD RIDDANCE (if you ask me). If you need me to spell this out anymore for you, TYPE OUT A LETTER ON YOUR SPEAK & SPELL!
 
Ya know, there was a time on this board when a person's view point was respected and differences in opinion could be discussed without resorting to flames.
I wonder what happened?
 
Listen up children....
No flames, no personal attacks, no excuses...period. Behave

You don't like it...then YOU go elsewhere.

No more warnings...just executions.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Well I must say, my first impressions of the change in attitudge on this board was correct.

It has gone down hill since I have been online.

I believe everyone has the right to express their opinions, even the anti gunners (when they use facts and not lies).

Yes, I will probably find another board to spend my valuable time.

I treasure the opinions of others, be they gun people or other attorneys. However, there is a method with which conversations can be had by intelligent people. This my friends, is not what I consider valuable information.

My observations were simply that the opinions expressed on this board have become quite negative and aimed at personal attacks rather than the free flow of ideas and opinions.

I will miss the excellant opinions and tips of those who have probably left during my absence from the internet.

I am extremely sorry if I offended anyone, but like they say $h*T happens and get over it.

Yall have fun with your flames and personal attacks and I will be surfing for intelligent life on the web with a slant towards firearms and the enjoyment they bring.


Merry Christmas and Happy Y2K New Year

Signing off
Judge Blackhawk
 
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