So.. I went to the border to shoot today.

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ccwolff

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So.. I went to the border to shoot today, and something happened, that has never happened in the 3 years that I have been going out there.

The border patrol / (dept. of homeland security),now written on the sides of their vehicles, approached me and asked to search my vehicle.

There is a certian section of the border that you can drive along side to get to get to some decent shooting spots.

I drove by the border to one of those spots, stopped unloaded my shooting stuff and started shooting.
About 5-10 minutes later the BP-DoHS shows up and asks to search my truck.

I asked if there was something wrong.

He said you drove by the border "suspiciously fast".

I said , how fast was I going.

Fast enough.

Ok, and if I refuse to let you search?

Then it is going to look suspicious.

I don't know what you think is going on here, but no you can't search my vehicle.

He then states that he knows that I am "just a shooter" and has already radioed in that and he just wants to be sure. And further asks why I would refuse.

Because I have not done any thing wrong.

He then says something about just doing his job. And then asks if he can just look arround the vehicle.

(I did not know they needed permission to look arround the vehicle) I said sure whatever man, but no you do not have my permission to search my truck.

At this point I went back to what I was doing (loading a few of my now empty magizines.) I watched the BPA peer in through each window for about 2 very long minutes.

He said have a good day.
Likewise.
And drove off.

(The above is the abridged version we actuality went round a bit more on the search and why I was refusing.)


The point:
I don't know. I kind of just thought to my self, wtf was that all about.

Should I have responded differently?

Is there any responce that I should have given to force the issue to keep from having to go round and round with him about the search?

I will say this, the BP is at least doing something on the boarder....I guess.:confused:
 
WHAT, exactly, is it doing?

I will say this, the BP is at least doing something on the boarder [sic]....I guess.
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Yes, it's harassing citizens while ignoring illegals.

I feel SO much safer now............
 
You know, right there on the border is one circumstance where I think I could cut the Border Patrol some slack. I don't necesarily mean you should have let him search your vehicle, that's up to you. But that's the first first-hand report I've heard that they're down there moving around, doing something, news reports aside. 'Don't think I could have resisted trying to stroke up a chat with the man.

You'd be surprised how far you'd get, just walking up with your hand out, "Good to see you here, Officer." Change his whole day and costs you nothin'. "'Still can't search my vehicle, though. Unless you got cause" ;)
 
I honestly believe that the whole 'probable cause' requirement to search vehicles is going to take a hit, if it hasn't already. Being by the border is different than being in the middle of a nice populated city. A buddy of mine who lived around the border used to tell me stories about the BP and the local sheriff. (Think Gunny from texas chainsaw massacre). Your rights are directly dependent on the attitude of the guy pulling you over miles from nowhere. A little paper sitting in washington doesn't mean much way way waaaaaay out in the middle of nowhere...
 
first first-hand report I've heard that they're down there moving around, doing something, news reports aside.
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Well, let me clarify, they have ALWAYS been down there at least at this section of the border, I can usually count 2-3 trucks/cars in the area out in the open and who knows howmany in the general area.

I just wanted to see if anyone else who lives/shoots on/near the border has noticed a more ....(searching for the right word).... PRO-active (read aggressive) change in the BP since becoming a part of the DoHS?

As far as letting them search my truck, I of course had nothing to hide.(I did say that to him when he suggested otherwise.)
I do support the BP as far as illegals go anyway, of which it was obvious ,even to him, I was not one of.
But he still wanted to search my truck anyway. Humm....

You'd be surprised how far you'd get, just walking up with your hand out, "Good to see you here, Officer."
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I see what you are saying but he did approch me first and ask to look inside my truck and suggested that I had done/was doing something illegal, to the point where he needed to look inside my truck to find out what that might be,kind of forcing me to go on the defencive to begin with.
 
Depending on what kind of truck you have, you could have also been smuggling illegals or drugs across the border. How is that for a reason to search your vehicle.

I know that I have rights especially since I have done nothing wrong. I would probably tell him to go ahead that I have nothing to hide. He might just go about his merry way.

Another possibility might be that he is one of those rare power hungry SOBs in law enforcement that like to push people arond. It doesn't seem that way though since you were not drawn upon, cuffed, and slammed to the ground for "non-compliance". The guy has a job to do. I like to make things easier for the good guys. Call me a sucker. :rolleyes:
 
i would have let him search my truck with no problem. the guy is just trying to cover his tracks and do his job. why not cooperate? then the next time you go down there to shoot you wont have to worry about it.
 
i would have let him search my truck with no problem. the guy is just trying to cover his tracks and do his job. why not cooperate?
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But by the same token, why not just open the door for full searches during routine traffic stops, mandatory piss testing, and full registration of guns? They're just trying to do their jobs, and besides, if we didn't have anything to hide...

Once upon a time, at a traffic light, a border patrol pulled up alongside my open window, shined his maglight in my face and proceded to ask if I was an American Citizen. I am so there should be no problem, right? No provocation, no flashing lights, just a fishing expedition...

Here are my papers commandant...
 
ccwolff, I wasn't banging on you, just thinking out loud. You did good from the sound of it.

Good presence of mind, by the way, to not give permission to search. They need reminders these days. Good job.

ITEOTWAWKI makes a good point in post #5, IMHO. Wow, nice user name, ITEOTWAWKI. :rolleyes:
 
cuz he was not at a traffic light. it was the border for gods sake. if the bp guy had driven by and said or done nothing we would be reading a thread about how the bp doesn't do crap wouldn't we.:eek:
 
Constitutional sell-outs

I am appalled by the number of supposed defenders of firearms rights who are tripping over themselves to whore out the rest of the Constitution in the name of "cooperation." Here's but one example of several on this thread already:

Depending on what kind of truck you have, you could have also been smuggling illegals or drugs across the border. How is that for a reason to search your vehicle [?].
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A pitifully poor one. Under this substitute for critical analysis, anyone in a "blighted area," parked at a convenience store or just coming home in the wee hours of the morning would be subject to detention and search based upon this poster's rationalization. Mere presence in whatever the cop deems a "suspicious area" now constitutes a waiver of the Fourth Amendment.

i would have let him search my truck with no problem. the guy is just trying to cover his tracks and do his job.
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Thus encouraging abusive, intrusive encounters and thereby making it more difficult for those with vertebrae and testicles to say "NO" to such warrantless and unwarranted actions. Does this poster intend to submit blood, hair, urine or semen samples every time a crime is committed in his town because the cop demanding them is " just trying to cover his tracks and do his job?"

Hey, all you "cooperation" advocates - how about you give the cops your guns "for testing" because they might have been used in a crime and the cop is "just trying to cover his tracks and do his job?" :barf:
 
Yet he had a dogged determination to get in his vehicle, hence the thread. To continually ask and press for a vehicle search is equivalent to street cops continually asking strangers on the street to sign up for a polygragh to find any illegal things they may have done. But if you don't have anything to hide...

The issue was a lack of balance between "not doing anything" and "doing too much". The poster, as I do, felt that asking several several times to get into your vehicle is a no-no, that it oversteps the bounds of a reasonable search, especially considering that he wasn't up to anything suspicious. (supposedly)
 
Glad you exercised your 4th Am right. When doing so, we should all ALWAYS be pleasant and courteous to the officers. "No sir, I'm sorry, but I must refuse a voluntary search at this time. I am innocent of any wrongdoing, but I am choosing to exercise my rights at this point." [smile] Something along those lines.

What's the bag limit on those illegals down there?.... JK, of course.
 
I do a fair bit of shooting on the border myself. Never had any problems with the BPA's, aside from giving me dirty looks. Some of my buddies have had problems like being harrassed by the BP. I chock it up to the gov'ts suspicion/fear of "white guys with guns" that close to our "undocumented workforce" <innocent grin on my face>:D
 
From the sounds of things, the encounter was fine. The BP had a job to do and attempted to get as much mileage as he could out of verbal requests as possible, making no threats. There was no request to disarm, no demands, and the BP didn't disallow ccwolff from continuing what he was doing and didn't even have him put down him shooting stuff while looking around.


The BP might have thought you could be a threat to the illegals. And we can't have that.
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He may have thought ccwolff was a potential threat to illegals, sure enough. He may also have thought ccwolff potentially was acting as a US side contact/security for illegal aliens, drugs, or what have you coming across the border. There are non-illegals on the US side of the border that have some strong vested interests in people and materials coming across illegally.

Yes, it's harassing citizens while ignoring illegals.

I feel SO much safer now............
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You seem to think the only job of the BP pertains to illegal aliens. That would be a very naive perspective.

As far as letting them search my truck, I of course had nothing to hide.(I did say that to him when he suggested otherwise.
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Right. He asked and you refused. He didn't do anything illegal and you didn't do anything illegal. Heck, he was nice enough to ask to look in your windows which he didn't have to ask permission to do.

I do support the BP as far as illegals go anyway, of which it was obvious ,even to him, I was not one of.
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Really, how is it obvious that you are not illegal? What does an illegal look like? You may not be a stereotypical Latino with skin darker than the typical Anglo and you may not have a discernable accent, but that doesn't make you not be an illegal.

I see what you are saying but he did approch me first and ask to look inside my truck and suggested that I had done/was doing something illegal, to the point where he needed to look inside my truck to find out what that might be,kind of forcing me to go on the defencive to begin with.

I am appalled by the number of supposed defenders of firearms rights who are tripping over themselves to whore out the rest of the Constitution in the name of "cooperation." Here's but one example of several on this thread already:
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Dude, there were no Consitutional violations in this incident. Law enforcement, anyone for that matter, can request to search a vehicle and if said matter is a request from LE or by another citizen, then the request can be denied. That is why it is a "request" and not an order.

Being cooperative is NOT whoring out the Constitution. ccwolff could have let the BP officer search his vehicle without whoring out the Constitution (which is a wrong use of "whoring," but no matter). Rights are just that, rights. Just because you have the right to remain silent does not mean you have to be silent. You have the right to protection from illegal search and seizure, but you don't have to refuse a request to search.

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From another perspective, who better to be breaking the law and working to bring illegals or contraband across the border than a person common to the area who is armed and regularly shoots in the area, who doesn't "look like an illegal," and who basically would pass beneath the LE radar? The enemy amongst us is more treacherous than those beyond our borders. American traitors have done considerable damage to America, often as a result of very little action of their own, but actions of large consequences.
 
In my tenure here in Socal I have found myself down on the border shooting and offroading. Most of the BPA I've came across have been courtious and professional and yes have asked to search my pov a few times. I have noting to hide and often am asked to apply as they can see I am proficent with a firearm and a jeep.:cool:
 
Rtfd

Dude, there were no Consitutional violations in this incident.
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Never said there were. Never intimated there were.

What I said was those who think the cops should be allowed to look just because it shouldn't be a problem "if you've got nothing to hide" and, therefore, you should cooperate are a threat to our rights.

Putting a welcome mat where your spine should be guarantees you'll be walked on.
 
i dont think we have a welcome mat on our spine. i just think some of you guys like giving cops a hard time. dont spend so much time looking for black helicopters. you can escalate or diffuse, your choice, and i shouldn't have to say which choice is the stupid one. quit puffing your chests out and use your brain a little. sounds to me like the bp was professional and polite. so he wants to look into a car. woooo sooo scary.
 
From the sounds of things, the encounter was fine.
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In that I was asked to allow a search of my vehicle for no real reason.
Sure I guess it was fine.

There are non-illegals on the US side of the border that have some strong vested interests in people and materials coming across illegally.
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I don't know about all that but this was at about 10 in the morning in a very visible place in the desert, as a matter of fact there were other people shooting in the area but I did notice that I was the only one to go over to the spots that you had to drive by the, "fence" if you can call it that, to get to.

Right. He asked and you refused. He didn't do anything illegal and you didn't do anything illegal. Heck, he was nice enough to ask to look in your windows which he didn't have to ask permission to do.
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Lets get some thing stright I never said he did. I will say that after he left I wondered wtf that was all about and was a bit irritated that he asked to search for such a cheesy reason. I think I was more irritated that he was surprised that I said no and did not take my first no at face value... or my second.


Most of the BPA I've came across have been courtious and professional
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Well I have never had them come up and talk to me and I have never approched them. However if they waved as they drove by I would return the greeting...done with that.
We were both courtious and professional however I think he was purposely testing courtious and professional I would remain...


Really, how is it obvious that you are not illegal? What does an illegal look like? You may not be a stereotypical Latino with skin darker than the typical Anglo and you may not have a discernable accent, but that doesn't make you not be an illegal.
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Umm... He stated that he knew I was "just a shooter" and had already radioed that in after the first time I said no. I guess it was his way of getting me to just say "oh! well in that case sure should I open all the doors for you?":rolleyes:

But that does bring up a good point if I did have dark skin and spoke spanish would that have made it so I had to comply?

From another perspective, who better to be breaking the law and working to bring illegals or contraband across the border than a person common to the area who is armed and regularly shoots in the area, who doesn't "look like an illegal," and who basically would pass beneath the LE radar? The enemy amongst us is more treacherous than those beyond our borders. American traitors have done considerable damage to America, often as a result of very little action of their own, but actions of large consequences.
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Well in that case maybe I should have asked him if I could search his vehicle.:rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213904,00.html


bp guy had driven by and said or done nothing we would be reading a thread about how the bp doesn't do crap wouldn't we.
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Well that has been my experience and hence my current suprise AND no I have never blamed the BP for why there are illegals in America. If you have ever been to the border it would be obvious to see why a few people can't secure the border.

i would have let him search my truck with no problem. the guy is just trying to cover his tracks and do his job. why not cooperate? then the next time you go down there to shoot you wont have to worry about it.
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Yeah that what one of my friends said thats what they would have done said I should have done.
I didn't, and if it were to happen again I still would not.
And there in lies the problem so now I have to choose between being harrased when I go out there or bending over because they ask me too.

Thats BS.:mad:
 
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