"Sniper rifles" are next...NBC Dateline

Seems like the problem is the Marine Corp and Army. They train people to kill others and them allow them to leave the service and return to society with these deadly skills that have no value to a civilized society (Whitman, Oswald, McViegh). We must change this problem. From now on, once you're in the Army or Marines you're in for life. This way we can keep thoses deadly skills away from the public.

And life will be good and we will all be safe. Forever
 
Paul Revere is right. Stop the whining, the battle has not yet begun!

There are a lot of good posts on this thread and I appreciate the solidarity of the patriots.

Everybody else: Do not get downhearted about the media/politican propaganda... that's what it's supposed to do. Make you think they're winning.

Guess what? A lot of people who are not posting here will crawl out of the woodwork when and if the SHTF. You will be surprised who will be on our side when the time comes. It probably won't be who you think. In the meantime, be of good cheer! BigG

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Yankee Doodle
 
Guys, you cant compare the people who helped the police against Whitman in 1966 in Austin with the Dumbed down sheeple of just 34 years later. The college student who used his carbine to distract Whitman while the police moved into the Building wouldnt exist today in the Ozone city of Austin which is run by NWO freaks .And the police of Austin today surely dont merit any help anyway from what i am hearing about the out of control DPS and other police in Texas. The year 1966 and the people of that time and their values are long gone. Remember, this period was before restrictive gun laws, before the police were out of control, and , in general before the heavily centralized system of government really put its heel on the people. Only a fool today would attempt to help the cops in such a incident occuring again. THe Polizei with their heavy weapons would just level the building and anyone else seen with a weapon would ALSO be shot down. As far as laws banning hunting rifles and shotguns, no doubt it will occur and Bubba(I call him DUMBA) is too dumb ,in general , to care. When the time comes that the government moves for complete gun control, individuals will have to fight mainly alone in most cases. The right to defend yourself and be armed is GOD Given and above even any human piece of paper(Bill of Rights) . The average millions of gun owners dont scare the Beast system. What worries this corporate state are the Prophecy Christians who really understand the complete evil of the coming satanic NWO system. That is why the citizens who are preaching and who understand Bible prophecy are the ones being persecuted,jailed and even killed by this government. The average Amrican has no idea how many political prisoners this country has incarcerated. One example in Michigan shows this perfectly. Brad Medcaff was given 40 years in prison for possesing a so called illegal device. Forty years! He is a patriot and Christian:a combination that your government hates. I am straying a bit.
 
The problem is not the Marines or Army my friends. Saying that is akin to claiming that the black community spills nothing but criminals into the street, and we know very well that that is not true. Stereotyping is dangerous prejudice.

Without being too analogous or overly simplistic, humankind can be compared to a product made on an assembly line, with different shapes, different colors, and different dialects. All are working specimens, all homo sapiens. However, in this assembly there are inevitable errors made, and rejects do occur (genetically or biologically). In some cases a perfectly produced specimen may be injured (mentally) during its useful life, with potentially loose parts that may come flying off at any time. It is these rejects that walk amongst us that are potentially dangerous to us all, and usually not plainly discernible to the naked eye.

It is our inherent fear of not knowing which one of us has these traits, that forces legislators to act so broadly with their intrusive and restrictive measures to treat us all as potential rejects with loose parts. But that is simply emotional legislation, none which works on the real problems our society faces.

The objectives of the left to disarm American citizens is indeed haphazard. Slicing and dicing their true agenda until its so utterly confusing, none of us know what to think. But do not be mistaken, their agenda is set...to disarm us all. It's just that damn Constitution that keeps getting in their way. That and their utopian egos.

The trump card we hold is their impatience to finish this disarmament. As they hurry to grab in the light of day they get a rush from their boldness, but then they expose themselves. And more and more folks are smelling the stench of their breath.

Freedom will live.
 
Yes I have seen the movie with Kurt Russel (Snake Plisken !) and was honestly suprised that they showed the 'citizens' stopping the shooter from aiming. As an added bonus for our side of the issue CW made 0 kills and I think 0 hits (I'm sure of kills) after the opfor showed up.
 
I'm with you, Paul Revere. You are more Patrick Henry than Paul Revere, though - "Give me liberty or give me death". Either one is cool though.
 
With apologies to E.K., "Hell, I was THERE!"

I had just moved from an apartment on University Ave., and went by at noon to check for any mail. Saw a group down the street; looked like maybe a car wreck. Went down to see, walking down the sidewalk, looking at the Tower to check my watch. (!) Was told, "There's some guy on the Tower, shooting at people!". I disappeared behind a pecan tree, wondering how to get back to my car and unass the area. Figured, "No way."

A guy I knew was standing in the intersection of Univ. Ave. and 20th St., just gawking. He got shot in his right shirt pocket. (I later pace it off; 420 steps.) I hauled butt and got an ambulance (no joy) and then directed traffic.

Would be gawkers wanted to stop their cars in the intersection of 19th & Univ. (19th is a through street) and "look". I played MP until the shooting was done. You'd be amazed at the amount of screaming I had to do to make people keep moving. And women were the worst! They just couldn't believe they were in any danger since they were so far away!

The Austin PD only had those old .351 self-loaders for rifles.

The finale occurred like this: A Natl Guard guy came to the west side of the Tower, with his GI Carbine. A policeman who was somewhat lost, inside, took it away from him. Another policeman came in through steam tunnels and they met up in the center of the building. The assistant manager of the UT CoOp store came in. He was a WW II ex-GI who had been in street-fighting in Europe. The cops gave him the Carbine. They went to the Observation Deck office. The only door to the O.D. opened to the south. Ground fire from civilians had pretty much "driven" Whitman to the NW corner of the deck. The manager went west and north from the door; the cops went east and then north. The manager heard some noise and sent a ricochet in that direction. The cops saw Whitman as they came to the NE corner of the deck. Bangedy-bang.

Whitman had a GI Carbine, a .244 Rem with a K4; a .357 revolver, and a cut-down single-shot shotgun, 12-ga. In his footlocker were five gallons of water, crackers and sardines.

Col. Homer Garrison, head of Texas DPS at that time, told my father that had it not been for ground fire from civilians, Whitman would have been there until the water ran out.

Whitman killed his wife with a hunting knife the night before, and his mother that morning, also with the knife. His first shootings were with the shotgun-pistol, up in the Tower's O.D. office. (He killed the lady who worked there, and two of a family of four; two wounded.)

His first snipes were with the carbine, when the Mall was crowded with the between-classes crowd. After they scattered, he went to the .244.

He never shot at any first-aid workers or rescue vehicles.

A high percentage of the dead and injured had come from other parts of town to "look".

There were clerical people in the offices below the observation deck. Quite a few "short rounds" came through their windows.

The nearest building of comparable height is some 600 yards from the Tower.

One of LBJ's daughters was in UT at that time. Reports have it that he got on the horn to Bergstrom AFB to see if they could do anything...(! & ?)

Some other little vignettes, but that'll do...

Later, Art
 
((rant mode: ON))
“The truth is, this fight hasn't even begun.”
“Stop the whining, the battle has not yet begun!”

Exactly my point, boys! There has BEEN no fight. We have given up every
so-called battle without even a whimper! Jeez! Most times we didn’t even
show up!

I’ve said all this before (sigh) but one more time.

If you think we have NOT lost every battle so far, go into virtually ANY
Western Auto, Sears, Montgomery Wards, family-run hardware store, etc.
and buy a .22 rifle, a .30-06 rifle, a 12ga pump, a .22 revolver, a .38 Spec
revolver, and a .45 Gov’t model PLUS all the ammunition you want for these
guns!

All you need is cash. No driver’s license; no CHL license, NO permission
from Mommy, Daddy, or Washington! No papers or forms to be filled out -
just buy the guns and ammo you want.

What? What’s that? Excuse me?

You say, “We can’t DO that anymore.”

You say most of those stores no longer sell guns?
You say most of those stores no longer sell ammunition?
You say you can’t buy a gun without papers, forms, phone calls and
PERMISSION FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT!!!!!!

AND YOU TELL ME THE BATTLE HAS NOT BEGUN!!

Listen up, kids! The war has been on for forty years! We have lost battle
after battle after battle!

The opportunity to fight is WANING NOT INCREASING! The WAR is darned near OVER!

And we have nearly lost because we have compromised, compromised, &
compromised.

We have voted “against” the bad guy instead of voting for our freedoms!
Therefore, quite naturally, we have LOST our freedoms!

We have COMPROMISED away virtually every gun right we USED to have!

We have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory nearly every time!

Don’t you DARE tell me that the fight has not yet begun!
I have letters from Ted Kennedy dated in the mid-1960s responding to my
fight to keep and bear arms! Many of the old farts on TFL can go back much
farther than that!

I’ve been fighting! I’ve been losing!
I’m sick and tired of COMPROMISING! I’m sick and tired of LOSING!

While I was overseas the BRAVE Americans in the ZI gave away danged
near everything the boys and girls were overseas fighting for!

And among the worst offenders are:
- Those WWII and Korean vets who say, “Oh, it was so bad overseas I never
want to see another gun.”
- The teachers who taught the kids that nothing is worth the use of force. All we have to do is “talk together”.
- The gun owners who felt “other” guns had no relationship to “our” RKBA.
- The police who cravenly kissed butt for political gain.
- The military officers who fought mostly for kissing space at the Great
Behind for personal gain - forsaking their oath to support the Constitution, their
troops, their service, and their country to obtain greater rank, prestige, and
retirement pay.
- The voters who stayed home because, “It makes no difference.”
- The preachers who told us to rely upon them - personally - and “their”
version of God rather than what we read in the Bible!
- The World Council of Churches who supported the enemy in Vietnam.
- The political whores of Hollywood who sold our country down the drain in
most of their movies! AND the folks who paid to be indoctrinated by those
movies.
- The academicians who condescendingly trained generations of children and
young adults that there is NO Right or Wrong! These are VALUE judgments (snicker, snicker) that your ignorant dinosaur parents believed in (snicker, snicker).
- The politicians who come into office with a few thousand dollars in the bank and a bazillion favors to repay. Later they retire as millionaires with annual retirement benefits greater than most Americans earn in a lifetime.
Every cent those camel-buggers grabbed came from taxes or consumer markets.

We are against the wall.
Already the government is confiscating firearms in California.
Already the government has an “approved” list of firearms in Maryland.
Already some states have implemented a Firearms Owner Identification Card or something similar.
Already the federal government confiscates our movable property without due Constitutional process.
Already the federal government tells us:
- what we dare and dare not grow on our own land.
- what we dare or dare not cut down, drain, or flood on our own land.
- what we dare or dare not build or tear down on our own land.
- what we may or may not use our land for, and what “permits” are required to do much of anything on our own land.
Already the federal government takes 40% to 70% of the working folks work
efforts and production.
Already the local governments make us pay “rent” on our homes and
businesses (in the form of taxation).
Already the federal government is compiling a listing of virtually every gun
owner.
Already the federal government is compiling a list of as many firearms, by
serial number, as possible. This is in total violation of legislation passed by
our Congress and signed by our President!

I’m sure all of you can add to this list. Please do.
And when you’re done, don’t bother looking at your children and mumbling platitudes, just look instead into a mirror. Look yourself in the eye and say, “Oh, there has been no fight. We, as Americans, are as free as we ever were.”

Riiiggght.
“Listen to Barney now, ‘I love you! You love me! We live in the land of the
brave and free!’”

((rant mode: dissipated))
But "I'll be back!"
 
Another story that goes along with this one is the LA bank robbery where the robbers had automatics and body armor.

The media often forgets that the cops ran to a local shop where a GUN DEALER of all people provided the police with AR-15s and ammo.

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"God grants liberty only to those who love it and are always ready to guard and defend it." --Daniel Webster
 
Dennis has some points. We need to listen to these old-timers. They've been there; done that. It's just the same doo-doo, different day. We have lost many many battles, but the two single biggest ones have not been lost, but unfortunately nor have they been definitively won yet, those being the Supreme Court deciding (1) there is an individual RKBA and it's powerful; (2) Said right applies to the states too via the incorporation doctrine of the 14th amendment (like every other right in the BORs). However, we are losing be default since the Supremes have abdicated their duty to hear controversies and steadfastly refused to answer either of the isses completely EVER, and refused to even TOUCH on them in the last 60 YEARS, except tangentially in Urdigo-Verdiguez???? case in 92. I'm not advocating violence or anything of the sort, but if someone REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to make a difference in the outcome of RKBA and our children's future, they will (a) help a conservative republican get elected in 2000; then (b) see if there isn't any way to "encourage" the "retirement" of the liberal Dem-appointee judges up there during the 4-year tenure of the next president unless they can get the judges to sincererly, publicly commit to an accurate reading of the RKBA. The appointments that follow will be for life and unlike most Dem appointment, will use their heads for more than hat racks. This type of scenario could just be the only thing that will save our great Republic in the long run. Anyone read "The Pelican Brief"? Make no mistake, folks. The ultimate enemy of ours, and the persons actually responsible for the idiocy which passes for "gun control" is the JUDGES! It if emphatically NOT the politicians in the legislative bodies. They are SUPPOSED to pass stupid unconstitutional laws if the majority "want it" at a given time. It is the COURTS' responsibility to strike down unconstitutional laws. It's happened hundreds of times throughout history. That's the way the system is set up, and that's the way it's supposed to work - checks and balances. It is the fault of the federal judges and really no one else that our nation's future is in jeapordy. They have either ruled wrongly as to the 2nd in the case of a few rogue liberal appellate judges, or in the case of the Supremes, where it counts, they have simply abdicated their responsibility (to date) to settle controversies that they should in this area. No other issues in the law are even remotely close to this one in terms of the utter neglect in confronting the issue the Supremes have showed. They refuse to grant certiorari on important cases (luckily there is an important one going on right now which may avoid certain acts if the high court rules in time. Your guess is as good as mine as to why they won't decide the issue and stop this nonsense. Perhaps they don't like the decision precedent would require them to make, so they'll just ignore the problem and let the next court/lower courts deal with it. Pathetic. Let's put the blame where it lies -with the JUDGES. Research the cases where the judges have ruled against RKBA. Hold these bastards to the light of day. Force publicity on them. They're appointed for "during good behavior" which has come to mean life, which of course is a huge part of the problem. OK, I'm calming a little. As Dennis said though, I'll be back, too.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 29, 1999).]
 
Nice thread, lots of emotion, quite a few angles. Bottom line is "They" want it all!
HCI etc. will not be happy until it is illegal to own a piece of flint and a piece of iron to strike it with.
IMHO Hank
 
[anecdote]

Interesting U.T. Austin story:

In 1991, I was finishing my 2nd semester at U.T., and heard some shotgun blasts outside of Jester Hall (largest coed dormitory in the world, for what it's worth). I went out to investigate. Hmmmm... more shots echoed down the way. I asked a Resident Assistant sitting out front what the deal was, and he explained that U.T.P.D. was firing noisemaker shotshells into the trees to disperse the grackles. I went to look, and found that several groundskeepers were also armed with New England Arms single-shot 12-ga. shotguns, firing Activ noisemakers into the trees, which then blew up and drove away the grackles (for about a day, after a heavy sweep.). I shrugged, and went to the R.O.T.C. shooting range to practice for the upcoming match. About 5 minutes later, a couple of guys came huffing up to the range, asking had we heard there were guys moving about the campus shooting people with shotguns?

Fortunately, I and another guy knew the deal, and put them to rights; someone had been yanking thier chain, and their imaginations, along with the sounds of the blasts, fueled the fire. But we got to talking: You could do worse than address shotgun-wielding BG's with Anschutz .22's. (and my Buck Mark). The spectre of the Tower loomed over us always, and none of us had not thought of how we would react, should the same thing occur then. But it also brings to mind that you shouldn't just shoot the "man with a gun" at the crime scene. You need to know what they've done, or what they're doing.

[/anecdote]


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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
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