Sorta got off on a tangent there. To fill both roles as per your original post, I'd get a Rem 700 BDL in your choice of caliber (mine would be .308 Win). Get the standard weight barrel, IMO the featherweight is just too light and I think will whip too much for any consistency, could be wrong, but my featherweight does not group well. OTOH the heavy barrel as on the Rem700 VS and PSS, particularly with the 26" barrel would be a little heavy for hunting although it is a dream to shoot. A standard weight barrel with 22 or 24 inch barrel would be fine for packing and should be more than adequate accuracy-wise.
Sniper rifle vs. Hunting Rifle
- Thread starter Dave3006
- Start date
You said, "My buddy said the "sniper" style rifles are impractical to carry in the field."
I would disagree. Snipers work in the field all of the time.
I know.
I hunted Africa this year with a Remington 700 VSSF in .308. Basically a stainless version of the 700 PSS.
Walked a LOT. Through heavy bush, up hill, down dale. This was what was available at the time, and it worked great. I was no more (or less) fatigued at the end of a day of Namibian hunting at 5000+ feet elevation with the Rem 700 than I am with a day of similar terrain and elevation here in Arizona with any of my other rifles, light or heavy.
BTW, I am not a big pack animal type guy, but rather a light, wiry mick.
I would disagree. Snipers work in the field all of the time.
I know.
I hunted Africa this year with a Remington 700 VSSF in .308. Basically a stainless version of the 700 PSS.
Walked a LOT. Through heavy bush, up hill, down dale. This was what was available at the time, and it worked great. I was no more (or less) fatigued at the end of a day of Namibian hunting at 5000+ feet elevation with the Rem 700 than I am with a day of similar terrain and elevation here in Arizona with any of my other rifles, light or heavy.
BTW, I am not a big pack animal type guy, but rather a light, wiry mick.
The nice thing about getting a Rem 700 VS is that you can use it for so many different things. I use it to eliminate ground squirrels at long distances. I can use it to the same effect calling coyotes or just doing drive by's on them at the ranch. I am going to start using it for silhouette shooting too. Two weeks from now I am going to go try some 1000 yard courses with it too out by Cuyama. I love that rifle and the Leupold 6.5x20 50mm LRT that rests atop of the rifle. And I can use it for deer and pig hunting too with some 165 gr hunting bullets. The Rem 700 VS in .308. What other rifles can you shoot all of those things with? Then if you want to hike all over the forest hunting for deer, buy a rem 700 .30-06 too. Then you will be set, a .308 for everything and a .30-06 for when you don't feel like packing so much weight along.
Legionnaire
New member
Dave,
Given your dual purpose role, I'd suggest a Remington 700 VSSF (varmint synthetic stainless fluted barrel) in .308 or the 700 Sendero in 300. Win Mag. The VSSF is a short action, while the Sendero is a long action. Both have fairly heavy fluted barrels that give you some of the advantages of the heavy barrels with a little less weight. The VSSF (and I believe the Sendero) is built with an HS Precision stock. The 700 actions are very strong and typically very accurate right out of the box. The trigger can be adjusted to taste. Add a Harris bipod and good optics, like a Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x with mil dot reticle, and you've got your dual purpose gun.
Shoot straight.
Given your dual purpose role, I'd suggest a Remington 700 VSSF (varmint synthetic stainless fluted barrel) in .308 or the 700 Sendero in 300. Win Mag. The VSSF is a short action, while the Sendero is a long action. Both have fairly heavy fluted barrels that give you some of the advantages of the heavy barrels with a little less weight. The VSSF (and I believe the Sendero) is built with an HS Precision stock. The 700 actions are very strong and typically very accurate right out of the box. The trigger can be adjusted to taste. Add a Harris bipod and good optics, like a Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x with mil dot reticle, and you've got your dual purpose gun.
Shoot straight.
Dave,
Now that all the opinions are out, and you want a lightweight but accurate long range rifle that won't kill you to carry all day, do what I just got done doing.
I took my Reminton 700 Varmint in 308, had the action trued and chamber recut to SAAMI minimum dimensions, and glass bedded it into a Remington synthetic sporter stock. Cablelas has these for $79.00 each.
The whole rig weighs 8.65 pounds unloaded, with scope, and shoots 1/2 minute of angle.
At 1000 yards it shoots under 1moa from a bipod. That should be the best of both worlds for you. And best of all, you don't notice the extra barrel weight by heft or sight. Mike
Now that all the opinions are out, and you want a lightweight but accurate long range rifle that won't kill you to carry all day, do what I just got done doing.
I took my Reminton 700 Varmint in 308, had the action trued and chamber recut to SAAMI minimum dimensions, and glass bedded it into a Remington synthetic sporter stock. Cablelas has these for $79.00 each.
The whole rig weighs 8.65 pounds unloaded, with scope, and shoots 1/2 minute of angle.
At 1000 yards it shoots under 1moa from a bipod. That should be the best of both worlds for you. And best of all, you don't notice the extra barrel weight by heft or sight. Mike
flmechanic
Inactive
In regards to "sniper" rifle verses "hunting" rifle i will add my two cents worth since i have used both to some extent. I find the heavy barrelled target style weapons to be more of a nuisance in the field than a well made sporter weight gun. I can personally recommend the steyr prohunter as being an exceptionally fine field gun.
All right, I've read enough...
Sniper Rifle, Precision Rifle, Hunting Rifle... you can name a friggen rifle anyone of these. A rifle is a rifle.. it's its use that determines how it is labeled IMO. Give me one of those single shot break open rifles with a scope on it, put me on top of a TX Tower and what do I have?!?
What is a Sniper Rifle but a lightened weather proofed Precision Rifle with a special scope. What is a Precision Rifle but a highly tuned hunting rifle. Kind of like DOD Snipers and LEO Countersniper/Marksman... they both do basically the same thing, go through roughly the same training though one is offensive and one is defensive (respectively).
Now, as for the weight of so-called Sniper Rifles. Exactly what kind of hunting are you going to be doing? Are you going to be up in a stand overlooking a bean field where shots are going to be out past Maggie’s barn or are you going to be stalk hunting in the scrubs forests of FL where you would be lucky to get a clear shot past 100 yards?
That is the million $$ question.
Would I take my deer rifle and stalk hunt through thick brush? HELL NO! But it has worked perfectly over the past years by providing one shot freezer filler from the stands I've put up.
Choose a gun that will best serve the type of hunting you will be doing most. Or choose the hunt that best suits the gun you get.
Just my humble opinion.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited September 04, 2000).]
Sniper Rifle, Precision Rifle, Hunting Rifle... you can name a friggen rifle anyone of these. A rifle is a rifle.. it's its use that determines how it is labeled IMO. Give me one of those single shot break open rifles with a scope on it, put me on top of a TX Tower and what do I have?!?
What is a Sniper Rifle but a lightened weather proofed Precision Rifle with a special scope. What is a Precision Rifle but a highly tuned hunting rifle. Kind of like DOD Snipers and LEO Countersniper/Marksman... they both do basically the same thing, go through roughly the same training though one is offensive and one is defensive (respectively).
Now, as for the weight of so-called Sniper Rifles. Exactly what kind of hunting are you going to be doing? Are you going to be up in a stand overlooking a bean field where shots are going to be out past Maggie’s barn or are you going to be stalk hunting in the scrubs forests of FL where you would be lucky to get a clear shot past 100 yards?
That is the million $$ question.
Would I take my deer rifle and stalk hunt through thick brush? HELL NO! But it has worked perfectly over the past years by providing one shot freezer filler from the stands I've put up.
Choose a gun that will best serve the type of hunting you will be doing most. Or choose the hunt that best suits the gun you get.
Just my humble opinion.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited September 04, 2000).]
Well, kinda what Schmit just said. (Thought I said the same thing in different words ... )
1/2 of the "super sniper" rifles are nothing but heavy barreled rifles of the same grade as what's normally out there in a lighter barrel combo - just heavier (which may or may not lend to enhanced accuracy).
All depends on your ammo/rifle combo + having a scope that will allow you to target properly. +, at the longer ranges, you better know what the range is (or have a laser) because bullet drop is considerable.
I've got a 14" bbl Contender pistol that has done a .640" grouping at 200 yds (that's .32 MOA, BTW) & weighs ~4lbs ... you don't need anything heavy to shoot long range ... it has a short, stiff barrel. At 300+, the shooter's still there but I'm not (still doin MOA there though). You can get by with a lot less than the latest seller due to a label.
As an aside, I went to a local .50 cal BMG shoot a few weeks back. During a cease fire, a buncha folks were allowed to do their bit at approx. the 100 yd line - shooting whatever - lotsa gallon jugs filled with gasoline, etc. - yada, yada. Many had their "Sniper! One shot, one kill!" shirts on with (what appeared to be) superbly tricked out "sniper rifles." At from 35 to 100 yds, I'd suspect that the average hit ratio on a gallon milk jug was about 5-10 shots per actual hit - on a ggalon millk jug.
Although the equipment is important, if the shooter isn't up to the task, it ain't gonna happen.
I'm a big fan of the Rem ADL soley because it gives me a basic (read inexpensive) platform which I can accurize (& tailor by reloading for accuracy) & I'm way familiar with it. YMMV.
Just shooting the prarie poodles a day or so back with an old (30 yrs +) Varmitmaster (heavy bbld Rem 700 BDL in .22-250) to 350 yds + - 6X24 scope = dial it in, squeeze & they die. Ergo. Wouldn't use it for larger game at 600 yds though.
& although game (seems to be the subject at hand rather than "tactical targets") can be taken at 500-600 yds, one can most certainly get much closer with decent hunting skills & do the humane thing with alot less weight.
Currently lugging around a 7lb (loaded) Rem M7 in .308 w/a 2X8 scope for elk on down. Velocities aren't exceptional (acually a bit on the disappointing side). Neither is the trajectory, but it will surely fill the larder to 300 yds if I do my part. The rifle's most certainly capable of it.
Old saying that may fit in here - maybe not .... "it's a lot easier to look than it is to walk." Meaning that hunting skills will overcome equipment most any ol' time.
1/2 of the "super sniper" rifles are nothing but heavy barreled rifles of the same grade as what's normally out there in a lighter barrel combo - just heavier (which may or may not lend to enhanced accuracy).
All depends on your ammo/rifle combo + having a scope that will allow you to target properly. +, at the longer ranges, you better know what the range is (or have a laser) because bullet drop is considerable.
I've got a 14" bbl Contender pistol that has done a .640" grouping at 200 yds (that's .32 MOA, BTW) & weighs ~4lbs ... you don't need anything heavy to shoot long range ... it has a short, stiff barrel. At 300+, the shooter's still there but I'm not (still doin MOA there though). You can get by with a lot less than the latest seller due to a label.
As an aside, I went to a local .50 cal BMG shoot a few weeks back. During a cease fire, a buncha folks were allowed to do their bit at approx. the 100 yd line - shooting whatever - lotsa gallon jugs filled with gasoline, etc. - yada, yada. Many had their "Sniper! One shot, one kill!" shirts on with (what appeared to be) superbly tricked out "sniper rifles." At from 35 to 100 yds, I'd suspect that the average hit ratio on a gallon milk jug was about 5-10 shots per actual hit - on a ggalon millk jug.
Although the equipment is important, if the shooter isn't up to the task, it ain't gonna happen.
I'm a big fan of the Rem ADL soley because it gives me a basic (read inexpensive) platform which I can accurize (& tailor by reloading for accuracy) & I'm way familiar with it. YMMV.
Just shooting the prarie poodles a day or so back with an old (30 yrs +) Varmitmaster (heavy bbld Rem 700 BDL in .22-250) to 350 yds + - 6X24 scope = dial it in, squeeze & they die. Ergo. Wouldn't use it for larger game at 600 yds though.
& although game (seems to be the subject at hand rather than "tactical targets") can be taken at 500-600 yds, one can most certainly get much closer with decent hunting skills & do the humane thing with alot less weight.
Currently lugging around a 7lb (loaded) Rem M7 in .308 w/a 2X8 scope for elk on down. Velocities aren't exceptional (acually a bit on the disappointing side). Neither is the trajectory, but it will surely fill the larder to 300 yds if I do my part. The rifle's most certainly capable of it.
Old saying that may fit in here - maybe not .... "it's a lot easier to look than it is to walk." Meaning that hunting skills will overcome equipment most any ol' time.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(that's .32 MOA, BTW)[/quote]
No... that's 20 Second of Angle!!
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited September 05, 2000).]
No... that's 20 Second of Angle!!
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited September 05, 2000).]
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
And so what it all amounts to is that if you get another .30-'06 in a bolt-action rifle, which won't total much over 9 pounds, loaded, scoped and with sling, you'll wind up with what I've been totin' for about 30 years.
Works real good. 1/2 moa, sometimes; but under 1 moa, always. It would be my first choice for serious social occasions.
What is far more important than sub-moa from the benchrest, once again: Become competent at off-hand, leaning on rocks or trees, or sitting in a brier patch in your shooting. As in, get away from the bench and out in the real world. When you can reliably hit a beer can at 100 yards, or a gallon bucket at 300 yards, offhand, just real, real, regular--well, that's a start.
, Art
Works real good. 1/2 moa, sometimes; but under 1 moa, always. It would be my first choice for serious social occasions.
What is far more important than sub-moa from the benchrest, once again: Become competent at off-hand, leaning on rocks or trees, or sitting in a brier patch in your shooting. As in, get away from the bench and out in the real world. When you can reliably hit a beer can at 100 yards, or a gallon bucket at 300 yards, offhand, just real, real, regular--well, that's a start.
, Artinternetfish
New member
Some great replies here....now for my .02
Your ability as a hunter weighs far more heavily than the possible accuracy that your rifle may possess. Most shooters will never be able to extract all the accuracy from their rifles anyway, so that point is lost...Use something sensible, like a nicely configured .308 or .30-06, standard hunting rifle. I myself, being slight of frame and loathing heavy rifles, prefer a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08. It will harvest almost anything on the continent should I choose to use it, but for the deer and small black bears in my area, it performs nicely time and time again. Distance is relative to your ability, the conditions and the animal in question. I would never attempt a shot over 200 meters. That is as far as I KNOW I can achieve a clean kill routinely.
[This message has been edited by internetfish (edited September 06, 2000).]
Your ability as a hunter weighs far more heavily than the possible accuracy that your rifle may possess. Most shooters will never be able to extract all the accuracy from their rifles anyway, so that point is lost...Use something sensible, like a nicely configured .308 or .30-06, standard hunting rifle. I myself, being slight of frame and loathing heavy rifles, prefer a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08. It will harvest almost anything on the continent should I choose to use it, but for the deer and small black bears in my area, it performs nicely time and time again. Distance is relative to your ability, the conditions and the animal in question. I would never attempt a shot over 200 meters. That is as far as I KNOW I can achieve a clean kill routinely.
[This message has been edited by internetfish (edited September 06, 2000).]
Is there any difference? http://dd-b.net/RKBA/m99/S_SNIPER.JPG
Sniper Rifle
Sniper Rifle
Sniper Rifle
Sniper Rifle
(sorry)
Having prohibitionists push some draconian restrictions on hunting firearms would HELP RKBA - currently people with politically correct rifles who don't care for pistols don't have much to worry about. There are a lot of hunters but they don't vote pro-gun or don't vote at all.
Battler.
Sniper Rifle
Sniper Rifle
Sniper Rifle
(sorry)
Having prohibitionists push some draconian restrictions on hunting firearms would HELP RKBA - currently people with politically correct rifles who don't care for pistols don't have much to worry about. There are a lot of hunters but they don't vote pro-gun or don't vote at all.
Battler.
You should check out Remington's Sendero line of rifles. They are designed to be long range hunting rifles in calibers a bit more potent than the 308 Win.
You should also check out what Savage has to offer. www.savagearms.com
I don't own a Savage but I know several people who do and they are fine rifles at an excellant price. They offer some very interesting rifles that I wasn't aware of. There are several on there site that look like they might fit the bill for what you want. I'm thinking of contacting their custom shop to see if they'd put together a medium weight, fluted 24" barrel in 30/06 (1/10 twist) in an action with a controlled feed bolt and an adjustable trigger. Not sure about the stock yet.
You should also check out what Savage has to offer. www.savagearms.com
I don't own a Savage but I know several people who do and they are fine rifles at an excellant price. They offer some very interesting rifles that I wasn't aware of. There are several on there site that look like they might fit the bill for what you want. I'm thinking of contacting their custom shop to see if they'd put together a medium weight, fluted 24" barrel in 30/06 (1/10 twist) in an action with a controlled feed bolt and an adjustable trigger. Not sure about the stock yet.
Nestor Rivera
New member
To put a point on the wording a sniper rifle is a rifle issued to a sniper which is a vocation while a hunting rifle may be owned by anyone for use in his or her avocation.
as per the general diffs between them it greatly depends on the environment they will be used in. The soviets and now russians will call the Draganov a sniper rifle while we would call it a anti-material rifle (due to + 1moa most of the time)
While few would call a varmit rifle in 22-250 a sniper rifle it may well out shoot many an M-21 in .308 go figure
The apex of the ameircan sniper was Carlos Hathcock he carried an M-1903 with scope, how many of us have the same thing in our closet, for him it was a sniper rifle, for use a fine white tail gun.
Just my thoughts (and a bit scatterd at that)
as per the general diffs between them it greatly depends on the environment they will be used in. The soviets and now russians will call the Draganov a sniper rifle while we would call it a anti-material rifle (due to + 1moa most of the time)
While few would call a varmit rifle in 22-250 a sniper rifle it may well out shoot many an M-21 in .308 go figure
The apex of the ameircan sniper was Carlos Hathcock he carried an M-1903 with scope, how many of us have the same thing in our closet, for him it was a sniper rifle, for use a fine white tail gun.
Just my thoughts (and a bit scatterd at that
)