Sniper rifle vs. Hunting Rifle

D

Dave3006

New member
I know very little about bolt action rifles. And there is something that I don't understand when looking at the two configurations for a bolt action rifle. Most of the classic hunting rifles seem to have thin barrels and are fairly light allowing them to be easily taken out in the field. The "sniper" sytle rifles like the 700PSS have longer bull barrels that make them more heavy and possibly more accurate(?). Is all the weight of the "sniper" style rifle worth the extra accuracy? I mean, how much more accurate is a 700PSS in .308 than a Win70 featherlight in 30-06? I would ideally like a good bolt action rifle that is accurate out to 500-600 yards that could fill both roles. I can't really see taking a PSS on a several day deer hunt. However, I don't know how the the 70 featherlight would perform at long distance in a precision role.

Any help
 
Dave,
I'll try to explain, and be coherant at the same time.
The heavier barrel does several things;
It adds weight, as you mentioned.
It does tend to allow for more CONSISTANT groups, and most likely more accurate groups.
It takes longer to heat the barrel to the point of distortion, which of course opens group sizes. At longer ranges this effect allows more consistant shot placement.
Your light barreled 30-06, if it will group 2 inches for three rounds at 100 yards consistantly, will be able to stay within the 10 ring of a 1000 yard target.
The difference between your light rifle and a heavier barreled rifle of the same chambering, is that you can aquire that target for 3, possibly 4 rounds, but likely no more than that.
The heavier barrel will allow the shooter to aquire the same target for 20 or more rounds with minimum barrel distortion.
There, that should be clear as mud.........my work here is done. Mike
 
The best rule on this is that there really is no rule. Michael is right for most cases, but the lightest barrel I ever put on a rifle was a 22" .308 on an FN Mauser. The barrel diameter at the muzzle was well under 1/2". With GI match, it would shoot near half-inch groups all day every day. To frost the cake, the barrel was a cheapie from a closeout sale, and cost $9.00.

Go figure.

Jim
 
This is a generalization, and does not mean "all the time" or "everybody": There are a lot of "walking hunters". We cover a lot of ground through a day's walk. We aren't hiding from anybody, and all that aspect of reality. Ultimate accuracy is nice, but not a necessity--most targets are within 300 yards.

A sniper, if he moves any great distance to his shooting spot, is sneaking and creeping. He's not trying for speed; stealth is important. So, his movement is slower, with more pauses to rest, look and listen. He needs absolute accuracy at long range, generally out to 800 or 1,000 yards and from a relatively fixed position.

Sure, either type of rifle *can* be used for either purpose. In general, tactics affect the design...

FWIW, Art
 
It might be well to remember a couple of things in this debate. Whether you are carrying a rifle with a light to medium weight barrel hunting quadrupeds or moving with stealth dragging a medium to heavy weight barreled military-type sniper rifle hunting bipeds, the ultimate purpose must be the same: one shot, one kill. In either case it is necessary that the quarry not be aware of from where the shot came.

Whether the heavier barrel will allow you to place a greater number of shots accurately than the lighter is a moot point if the above object is kept in mind.

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If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.
 
No idea as to your experience level with a rifle but 500-600 yards for most (especially in a field condition) is a wing & a prayer. Some can, most can't but say they do.

If you take a shot at a standing animal at the very same instance he decides to move (at a walk), you may still miss your aiming point by quite a few inches soley due to bullet time of flight.

I'd be very hard pressed to take a shot at that range (at game) using anything - no matter how accurate the rifle.

Hunting skills are much more important than is the rifle's ability to reach out there. And, you're usually only taking one shot anyway.

I would much prefer to carry a 6 lb rifle with 1.5 MOA than a 12 lb rifle w/.5 MOA any day in most any hunting circumstance. Varmit hunting excluded.

No disrespect to the heavy barreled rifles - got a couple & love 'em - but only for certain, specific instances - they do have their place.

Give me a lightweight that'll kill cleanly at reasonable ranges any time. I'll make up the diff with my hunting skills.
 
Just to clarify something posted above:

Most (CIVILIAN law enforcement) rifle engagements (tactical) are less than 100 meters.

But it doesn't mean that LE doesn't train to be effective way out there, just in case they need to make those shots like their military counterparts, who will engage to and sometimes exceed 1000 yards with their M21's, M24's, M40's, and modified .300 Win Mag Browning BAR Interdiction Rifles.

Back to the original topic, If you have a good barrel, and a square action, there's no reason a lightweight bolt gun couldn't be accurate out to the distances mentioned. I'd definitely watch the barrel heating and whip, though.

Raven

(Although the 700PSS is a hell of a bargain for the money!)

700pss.jpg
 
I watched "American Shooter" yesterday morning. They had coverage of the matches at Camp Perry. Ranges to 600 yards...Many were using the fully tricked-out rifles, including 16-pound AR-15s. Many others were using essentially "normally" modified Garands and M-1As.

I think the same programming will run this evening, around 6PM or 7PM EDT.

The military sniper track record is full of one-shot kills at 800 or more yards. markie is correct, of course, but the usual "tactical" situation is not what we're talking about in sniping vs. the usual hunting situation. The military sniper is not concerned about morals and ethics as to "fair chase" and "clean, quick kill".

Later, Art
 
We really should get away from the "Sniper rifle" terminology. Much like Assault rifle and Saturday Night Special, it has a negative connotation that will be the subject of legislation sooner or later. WE should not validate that terminology by using it. Just like high cap magazines are really standard magazines, we should refuse to use anti-gun terminology.
 
The PSS is too heavy to lug around all day for hunting. There are other Remingtons which will do the job. Consider their 20" bbl sniper in .308. Small, light, handy and accurate.
 
Ok. It seems the main difference is that the bull barrel on a sniper rifle allows for better groups. However, in a sniper or a hunter role, the first shot or two is the most important. The target will most likely be gone after one,two or three rounds. A hunting rifle will hold zero for a couple rounds. So, I don't understand why a bull barrel is necessary?
 
Dave,
I saw this same post on Culver's Shooting Page and now I must question its motives. Pardon my paranoia, but this sounds like someone's attempt to better differentiate types of rifles for legislative purposes. To define "sniper rifles" in such a manner that the "thin barreled" hunting rifles are not affected will be necessary to further divide and conquer the shooting community. For someone with a handle like Dave3006 to say he doesn't know much about bolt action rifles is a little much. What is the point of your post?
 
I'm with you Riverdog sounds a little too "politically corect" in here all of a sudden.
Dave , are you a politician?...or just too dumb to understand?

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SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM
 
Now I have heard everything. I have M1 Garands. Therefore, Dave3006. I want to buy a good bolt action rifle. I would like it to serve TWO purposes. First, I want to learn to hunt deer with a buddy from high school. Second, I want it to be a SNIPER rifle. Someday, somehow, in this sick country, I could possibly need one. Maybe I am the only one with the guts to say it. Don't even try to say many on this board don't feel the same way.

Don't get caught in the PC language trap over our gun rights. They are going to try to ban all guns. They don't care what you call them. I will not change my language in the vain attempt to pacify the socialists. In California, they just banned the Colt Sporter. See, renaming it didn't work. It is time for everyone to grow up, get some guts and not be so timid in the face of the losers that would destroy our second ammendment rights. What a bunch of timid babies.

Dave3006
- you have more of a right to a fully automatic M16 than to a Ruger 10/22. It is a militia weapon. Your wildest fantancy would be that I was a politician... concealed carry all 50 states, no tests, no waiting periods, no magazine bans, no assault rifle bans, no registration.
 
M-1Dave, I think I see where you are coming from, sorry for theinsinuation, but 30-06 started out in bolt action long before the Garand. Regardless, the psychology of scare tactics is what the "Saturday Night Specials", "Junk Guns", "Assault Rifle/Assault Weapon" and soon "Sniper Rifle" terminology is all about. They use those terms to demonize inanimate objects and ostracize those who own them.
We should use more precise and less emotional terminology and reject terminology that the anti-gun crowd loves to use in their sound-bites. By allowing them to separate "sniper" rifles from other rifles, you give them the wedge they need to split the shooting community once again. Divide and conquer.
 
Dave3006,

Couldn't agree with you more re screw 'em.

Even though I'd made some comments about "I'd be satified with a 1.5MOA hunting rifle," I'm not. I try to wring out the best accuracy I can with handloads & tricking out the rifle itself (accuracy stuff). Each of mine are "sniper grade" when done. I'd rather use some moreso than others for "sniper duty" but that's more akin to the ammo/caliber/scopes, etc. on them than the accuracy of the rifle - some are just better suited to the longer ranges than others.

Many regular ol' hunting rifles (such as .30-06 with a 3X9 scope) are very well suited to do the trick at pretty long ranges.
 
Well, Dave, My Apology to you if what you say is true, I guess I have learned to trust no-one...you just sounded a little too corporate America for me there....

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SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM
 
Dave - I'd get Rem 700 PSS or Varmit (others have a better handle on the correct names) in the caliber of your choice. I'm not a Big Green fan, but they know how to put consistantly good barrels on decent actions and in good stocks. Really hard to beat for the money.

Giz
 
Boneyard, no big deal. You can call me just about anything except a gun grabber. That is my one issue in life. Nothing can get me more angry than the thought of liars tricking the ignorant public into legislating away our guns. It makes me sick. All our freedom rests in our ability to maintain the right to keep and bear arms (especially the politically incorrect ones).

I just spent opening day back in Ridgecrest, California Dove hunting. My buddy is really into deer and elk hunting. I would like to learn how to do this in the future. But, I know just about nothing concerning bolt actions. I have a Glock 22 for my home defense weapon. A Benelli M1S90 for the next Rodney King summer games. And a Garand for the end of the world situation. I shot his 7mm Sako hunting rifle at about 200 yards. It was fun. Since all of firearms purchases have centered around combat/self defense, I wanted to kill two birds with one stone and did not understand why someone needs a bull barrel. My buddy said the "sniper" style rifles are impractical to carry in the field. Ideally, he shoots once at his game. Two or three max. I just wanted to hear the pro's and con's. I have usually found these boards are great for that type of thing.

Dave
 
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