Sniper rifle defined
- Thread starter riverdog
- Start date
This is where we end up when we accepted the "sporting purpose" clause in 1968.
If you don't accept the premise that a law abiding american needs to have a "sporting purpose" for his firearm, the entire argument is moot.
Once you accept the "sporting purpose" argument there really is no reason for "assault" or "sniper" weapons.
Of course the second amendment says nothing about "sporting purposes".
If you don't accept the premise that a law abiding american needs to have a "sporting purpose" for his firearm, the entire argument is moot.
Once you accept the "sporting purpose" argument there really is no reason for "assault" or "sniper" weapons.
Of course the second amendment says nothing about "sporting purposes".
I'll have to proceed to take some pictures from our firing range, with
all these sporting weapons being fired at targets 300m away.
They almost all have magazines conspiciously protruding out of the
receiver, pistol grips, flash hiders, and a lot have folding stocks.
And bayonet lugs.
Uh, and lots of them are full-auto capable.
Then ask the BATF if the SIG 510 and 550 is a 'deadly' weapon or a
sporting firearm. Maybe, to state an example, we'd invite a few
politicians from European countries with restrictive gun laws to show
them what we do with our military-style weapons.
Juveniles are also shooting their rifles (yes, if you're 16 years old,
you can legally take your rifle home (to repeat: You get a
full-auto SIG 550, a cleaning kit, one mag and the dopter sight
cover), but they're not allowed to take ammo home until they've
completed recruit school. Ever saw a 11 year old shooting a SIG 550?
The liberals will freak out at that sight.
This is Switzerland.
all these sporting weapons being fired at targets 300m away.
They almost all have magazines conspiciously protruding out of the
receiver, pistol grips, flash hiders, and a lot have folding stocks.
And bayonet lugs.
Uh, and lots of them are full-auto capable.
Then ask the BATF if the SIG 510 and 550 is a 'deadly' weapon or a
sporting firearm. Maybe, to state an example, we'd invite a few
politicians from European countries with restrictive gun laws to show
them what we do with our military-style weapons.
Juveniles are also shooting their rifles (yes, if you're 16 years old,
you can legally take your rifle home (to repeat: You get a
full-auto SIG 550, a cleaning kit, one mag and the dopter sight
cover), but they're not allowed to take ammo home until they've
completed recruit school. Ever saw a 11 year old shooting a SIG 550?
The liberals will freak out at that sight.
This is Switzerland.
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
mussi
How is the law regarding visiting foreign nationals? Would I have any problem if I were visiting ?
How is the law regarding visiting foreign nationals? Would I have any problem if I were visiting ?
Bill Daniel
New member
"precision and acccuracy" What on earth would be the purpose of any tool that was imprecise or inaccurate?
Bill Daniel
Life Member NRA
Bill Daniel
Life Member NRA
You all miss the point.
The law states in relevant part..."the right to keep and bear ARMS shall not be infringed..."
It doesn't say "keep and bear ARMS, except for [fill in the blank]"
If the VPC and other like-minded organizations see a threat to nat'l security in so-called sniper rifles (and I assume they do since they make a number of references to using one to effect political change), they are wrong. Firearms are a threat to THEIR security. THEY, and more specifically like-minded folks in our govt., are the whole reason why the wise founders of this country included the 2d Amdt. in the Bill of Rights.
The law states in relevant part..."the right to keep and bear ARMS shall not be infringed..."
It doesn't say "keep and bear ARMS, except for [fill in the blank]"
If the VPC and other like-minded organizations see a threat to nat'l security in so-called sniper rifles (and I assume they do since they make a number of references to using one to effect political change), they are wrong. Firearms are a threat to THEIR security. THEY, and more specifically like-minded folks in our govt., are the whole reason why the wise founders of this country included the 2d Amdt. in the Bill of Rights.
ALL miss the point.....
45nut, don't think so, they are not a threat to their security, they are a threat to their ultimate ends.........CONTROL.
As Mao said, "All political power comes from the end of a gun".
If you don't believe that, look at the Chinese people ..........still slaves, and slaughtered at will and whim.
And believe me, MOST folks on these forums know full well what the 2nd has to say, and what it means.
45nut, don't think so, they are not a threat to their security, they are a threat to their ultimate ends.........CONTROL.
As Mao said, "All political power comes from the end of a gun".
If you don't believe that, look at the Chinese people ..........still slaves, and slaughtered at will and whim.
And believe me, MOST folks on these forums know full well what the 2nd has to say, and what it means.
TShoes
You'll get no disagreement from me. I think(?) we said more or less the same thing in two different ways.
I just wanted to note the difference....that there is no threat to nat'l sec. I love my country, and I know resp. gun owners do. But, the ruling class is another story....
You'll get no disagreement from me. I think(?) we said more or less the same thing in two different ways.
I just wanted to note the difference....that there is no threat to nat'l sec. I love my country, and I know resp. gun owners do. But, the ruling class is another story....
Too bad that it takes this level of stupidity by the antigunners for us to unite and get angry.
I tried talking with a few of those hunters who thought they were some how morally superior to those like me who own "assault style" firearms and they wouldn't dare make any effort to stand with me, essentially they told me to go screw myself as far as they were concerned because they felt my guns had no role in society but yet somehow they didn't heed my warnings and the warnings of many others like us that everything is threatened including their varmint "sniper" rifles or deer rifles that shoot a round powerful enough to be grabbed due to it's ability to punch through light kevlar body amour(remember the 30-30 was a legitimate hunting round according to the VPC but yet it has enough velocity to be a very keen hole punch in light body armour, no way it would pass their "test").
The biggest success these types have gained over us is that they were able to sway some popular public opinion into thinking that firearms ownership requires a "legitimate" sporting use. They dodge the 2nd Amendment issue in any way that they can.
This issue has sparked some heated bitch and rants around the web. Seen it in two other places besides here and I've moved it to other forums as well, it isn't too well received.
I tried talking with a few of those hunters who thought they were some how morally superior to those like me who own "assault style" firearms and they wouldn't dare make any effort to stand with me, essentially they told me to go screw myself as far as they were concerned because they felt my guns had no role in society but yet somehow they didn't heed my warnings and the warnings of many others like us that everything is threatened including their varmint "sniper" rifles or deer rifles that shoot a round powerful enough to be grabbed due to it's ability to punch through light kevlar body amour(remember the 30-30 was a legitimate hunting round according to the VPC but yet it has enough velocity to be a very keen hole punch in light body armour, no way it would pass their "test").
The biggest success these types have gained over us is that they were able to sway some popular public opinion into thinking that firearms ownership requires a "legitimate" sporting use. They dodge the 2nd Amendment issue in any way that they can.
This issue has sparked some heated bitch and rants around the web. Seen it in two other places besides here and I've moved it to other forums as well, it isn't too well received.
No, too bad for OUR level of apathy
Before WE get angry...............
Articles like this come and go......doing their damage in incrementalism.
We, in turn get in a huff for a while, and then go our merry ways.
Just like the idiot hunters (all aren't) you descibed, it's like I said before, "It's alright if someones Ox is getting gored, as long as it's not MINE".
Problem with this arena, if you wait till your gored, you just lost your rights.
When these diatribes come out, every effort to dismiss them needs to be taken, (i.e.), give them no quarter......
Words mean things, and these idiots are after OUR collective right to Keep and Bear arms........Period.
Fight them any, and everywhere you find them, write your Senators, and Congressmen, write these dummy's if you can find an address...........
If you remember correctly, the powers that be have an attack and destroy zone..........it's called 25%.
When any issue (Smoking), has been demonized to the point where less than this % of Americans are doing something, then all Hades breaks loose.
They figure they have reached the point of where there are NOT enough votes left, to do them any damage.
So, they attack full force like sharks when you chum the water with blood.
This is a war, that will not end until we win or they do..........the rest of the civilized world has already caved, we are the last bastion left.
Rememeber this, "The Enemy is AT the Gates".
DO SOMETHING................
Before WE get angry...............
Articles like this come and go......doing their damage in incrementalism.
We, in turn get in a huff for a while, and then go our merry ways.
Just like the idiot hunters (all aren't) you descibed, it's like I said before, "It's alright if someones Ox is getting gored, as long as it's not MINE".
Problem with this arena, if you wait till your gored, you just lost your rights.
When these diatribes come out, every effort to dismiss them needs to be taken, (i.e.), give them no quarter......
Words mean things, and these idiots are after OUR collective right to Keep and Bear arms........Period.
Fight them any, and everywhere you find them, write your Senators, and Congressmen, write these dummy's if you can find an address...........
If you remember correctly, the powers that be have an attack and destroy zone..........it's called 25%.
When any issue (Smoking), has been demonized to the point where less than this % of Americans are doing something, then all Hades breaks loose.
They figure they have reached the point of where there are NOT enough votes left, to do them any damage.
So, they attack full force like sharks when you chum the water with blood.
This is a war, that will not end until we win or they do..........the rest of the civilized world has already caved, we are the last bastion left.
Rememeber this, "The Enemy is AT the Gates".
DO SOMETHING................
VPC, et al
will not be happy until every rifle, shotgun, handgun, including all blackpowder firearms are confiscated. Their tactics have not changed from that of the Romans: Divide & Conquer. Identify one type of firearm, demonize it, regulate and confiscate. Then move onto next type.
will not be happy until every rifle, shotgun, handgun, including all blackpowder firearms are confiscated. Their tactics have not changed from that of the Romans: Divide & Conquer. Identify one type of firearm, demonize it, regulate and confiscate. Then move onto next type.
Just went and read the thing...
Interesting.. they do make an effort to say "we're not after oh-so-inaccurate hunting rifles, just precision sniper rifles".. mmkay.. I guess like the assault stuff, it's only evil if it's black. Hrmm.. sounds familiar, eh? *grin*
Still though, what strikes me most is all the material the author had to have bought and read to compile this "report." Ultimate Sniper, Small Arms Review, a whole load of gun rags and catalogs, and a lot more. Sounds like this guy/girl read more about firearms than a lot of US have.
Which begs the question.. why bother? Who's been shot with one of these multi-thousand dollar toys that brings out the attention?
Honestly, it reminds me of nothing so much as a minister who can rail on about the evils of porn for hours straight, then goes home at night to a stack of Gay SM XXX flicks for "research."
-K
[Edited by Kaylee on 05-22-2001 at 12:19 PM]
Interesting.. they do make an effort to say "we're not after oh-so-inaccurate hunting rifles, just precision sniper rifles".. mmkay.. I guess like the assault stuff, it's only evil if it's black. Hrmm.. sounds familiar, eh? *grin*
Still though, what strikes me most is all the material the author had to have bought and read to compile this "report." Ultimate Sniper, Small Arms Review, a whole load of gun rags and catalogs, and a lot more. Sounds like this guy/girl read more about firearms than a lot of US have.
Which begs the question.. why bother? Who's been shot with one of these multi-thousand dollar toys that brings out the attention?
Honestly, it reminds me of nothing so much as a minister who can rail on about the evils of porn for hours straight, then goes home at night to a stack of Gay SM XXX flicks for "research."
-K
[Edited by Kaylee on 05-22-2001 at 12:19 PM]
Isn't it ironic that the media will report a criminal shooting at people with a handgun from a building as a sniper? Or shooting with an inaccurate weapon. Or shooting with a .22 LR. With regards to the media, a sniper is whatever the media says it is. 99% of the general public does not really know what a sniper is.
VPC and HCI will never be satisfied until ALL guns are confiscated......PERIOD! This MUST be understood by ALL gun owners no matter what type of shooting you do. Sooner or later they will name your guns as "bad" and ones that should be banned "for the children". These idiots never stop as they are extremists with very little accurate knowledge on the subject. They are dangerous in the worst way as they will make the LAW ABIDING citizen a felon just for trying to protect yourself and your family. They must be stopped by any legal means possible. And they should be slammed hard using EVERY legal means. This means lawsuits (if possible) against the group and any individual within the group. We should try to put them out of business as that is the tactic they are using with the gun makers.
Call and write your politicians often and strongly let them know that you are tired of being branded a criminal by these groups (and the media) and will not tolerate the passage of anymore laws that restrict your gun rights. Call them at least once a week if possible. Volunteer to help them at their re-election offices when the time comes. This will give you the opportunity to show them that you are serious.
John
NRA Life Member
SAF
CRPA
VPC and HCI will never be satisfied until ALL guns are confiscated......PERIOD! This MUST be understood by ALL gun owners no matter what type of shooting you do. Sooner or later they will name your guns as "bad" and ones that should be banned "for the children". These idiots never stop as they are extremists with very little accurate knowledge on the subject. They are dangerous in the worst way as they will make the LAW ABIDING citizen a felon just for trying to protect yourself and your family. They must be stopped by any legal means possible. And they should be slammed hard using EVERY legal means. This means lawsuits (if possible) against the group and any individual within the group. We should try to put them out of business as that is the tactic they are using with the gun makers.
Call and write your politicians often and strongly let them know that you are tired of being branded a criminal by these groups (and the media) and will not tolerate the passage of anymore laws that restrict your gun rights. Call them at least once a week if possible. Volunteer to help them at their re-election offices when the time comes. This will give you the opportunity to show them that you are serious.
John
NRA Life Member
SAF
CRPA