Sniper or infantry?

F

F23Blackwidow2

New member
Hello Everyone,

I'm here to ask the age old question that just about eveyone who has ever purchased a rifle is asking themselves. Do I want a high rate of fire semi auto, or a percision bolt action rifle. But my question is a bit more specific, and on a budget.

I'm looking at 2 high quality guns for around the same price. The Howa 1500 in .30-06, or a service grade H&R M1 Garand from the CMP, also in .30-06.

I love the Howa for its accuracy and quality, and the M1 Garand for its history and 'Ban Proof-ness'. I live in NY, so bans are a big probelm.

And the ammo isn't even a deciding factor. I know you can get cheap M2 ball ammo for the M1, but since its a semi auto, I think I would go through more of it. I know I do with my .22. With a bolt action, I would probably use more expensive ammo, but use less of it, so the cost would be about the same.

I know that the howa will probably shot about 1.5 MOA out of the box, but I'll be taking a gamble on the M1 Garand.

I will probably buy both of them in the future, but I'm on a serious money crunch.

So, any suggestions, opinions, and spelling errors that I defiently made?

Thanks,
Ken B.
 
Being in NY, isnt the Garand out of the equation for you now?

Personally, if its available, Id go for the Garand first. Everyone should at least own one. Bolt actions area dime a dozen, even accurate ones. :)
 
Well, IMHO a Howa is not really a precision rifle, it is a $400 production rifle. What is the expected use of the rifle? I would get the Garand, you can always have a new barrel installed. The only downside to the Garand is that you cannot use commercial ammo in it.
 
Garands are a good bit of history. The drawback is that you won't get sub moa accuracy right away (if ever) and they are really an iron sight only option without getting prohibitively expensive quickly.

Between the two I'd get the Garand, for the history, since they are still making Howas.

Jimro
 
I'm a die hard bolt gun fan, but in your instance I'd get the Garande first also. History shows the price of the Garande is going to do nothing but go up. Cheaper bolt action rifles are all over and the price seems to be holding steady.
 
You can, but you should probably stay within a load range that comes close to GI ammo if you want to be safe. The M1's can be dangerous if you dont pay attention to what you feed them, and pressure isnt the only issue.

The M1 was designed to run on a 150 +/- grain bullet running around 2900fps. Rumor has it, youll bend the op rod or cause other damage to the gun if you wander into heavier bullets with slower burning powders. Ive shot some in mine over the years without issue, but I never fed them a steady diet of it, so I cant really say one way or the other.

Some say if you use an adjustable gas plug, it doesnt matter. I havent used one, so I cant really comment there either.
 
The only hazard to a Garand if using commercial ammo is bending the op rod. The original system functions properly at a gas pressure of about 2,000 psi. An adjustable gas port dealie takes care of that via a smaller hole for gas flow to operate the rod. They aren't expensive.

Start with the adjustment not allowing cycling and work toward reliable cycling and then quit. :)
 
Why cant they just load 7 rounds in anything else then?
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They can for the 1st year from the time the bill passed. They have one year to sell or destroy any "hi capacity" magazine and until then it is a misdemeanor to load them with more than 7 rounds. I'm not sure what happens after that but my understanding is that the ban is on removeable magaziines that hold more than 7 rounds (removable magazines being an evil military feature). I'm not sure if an enbloc clip from a Garand would be considered a removeable magazine or not.
It would be a good idea for anyone in NY to consult a lawyer to be sure what the law is. I am just saying what my understanding is from the information that is currently available.
 
I'm not sure if an enbloc clip from a Garand would be considered a removeable magazine or not.
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I dont see that it can be considered anything else? The M1 cant be loaded without it.
 
The problem with using a more powerful round in the Gerand is not only bending the op rod but I have seen two cracked receivers on the rear where the bolt is slammed into the back. The crack was on each side of the receiver. That could ruin a day of shooting.
 
Been many years since I've owned a Garand but IIRC you can use any commercial load with a 150 gr bullet as long as the charge is a single base powder. Probably some that use double base powders, but best to stick with single base in order to maintain the proper burn rate and gas port pressure.
I'm pretty sure that all WW2 .30 M2 Ball used single base powders.

Cracked or broken out receiver heels were a problem in early testing. They solved this by annealing the heel in molten lead.
Not sure but I suspect use of M1 Ball with its heavier bullet or other .30-06 ammo loaded with a double base powder caused the breakages and led to use of 150 gr bullet and single base powder only for ammo to be used with the Garand.
Increased erosion of bore (aprox 10%) and gas port by the Double base propellents available at the time were other factors to consider.

Besides possible damage to the receiver heel the rear of the bolt may be peened causing the firing pin to lock up and/or the leg of the pin may be damaged.

Five round and three round enbloc clips have been manufactured for the Garand.
 
Question:

How long do suppose it will be before NY bans "Sniper Rifles" (that would be a scoped bolt action hunting rifle).


I'd buy the Garand.

....but if it were me, I'd buy it somewhere where not a penny of the sales tax went to the State of New York.
 
Another vote for the Garand.

After asking myself this question, with your two choices...it was pretty easy.

"In 20 years, which one do you think you'd still have?"
 
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