SNIPER/LONG RANGE/Hunting Rifle

P

Pointer

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For the sake of this thread... here are MY definitions.

LONG RANGE is a distance well beyond 350 yards.
A SNIPER RIFLE is any rifle which is designed, accurized, and specifically setup for the purpose of making a head shot on the target, animal or human.
A HUNTING RIFLE weighs less than 10 pounds with mounted scope.
A LONG RANGE SCOPE has sufficient magnification to see the "head" of the target clearly at 1000 yards and has a reticle fine enough and sharp enough to see the "spot" intended to be the "point of impact."

In that spirit... Please note, I have read everything I can find on the internet and I am dizzy from the search.

MY QUESTIONS:

Can this imaginary rifle be gotten Off-the-Shelf?
(I have considered the Remington 700 Sendero?)

What caliber would you recommend for both elk hunting and enemies?
(I have considered the 300 Win Mag and 300 RUM? I'm a not sure about the 338 RUM)

What scopes are good for this application?
(I have considered the Vortex Viper PST in 4-16x 50mm?)

NO, I DON'T WANT TO SHOOT PEOPLE, PRONGHORNS OR ELK AT 1000 YARDS! However, I want a rifle that is capable of doing that. (What other brands and models are available? Thompson Icon? or..........?)

My maximum is UNDER $2000 total.

NO, I will not be hunting/shooting from distances greater than 600 yards.
But, I want a gun/scope combination that will shoot sub-half minute at "long ranges".

This should make for a lively discussion... so PLEASE keep it on subject.
My priority is Elk hunting and the sniper-like accuracy is important as a just-in-case sort of thing.


REASON: I witnessed a fellow hunter taking a head shot at under two hundred yards. He blinded, but did not kill the spike elk... he had to chase the stumbling spiker through the trees for some distance before he could take another shot to finish the job... :mad:


BOTTOM LINE: I want a NECK or BRAIN-shot rifle because, over the years, I have seen more elk heads than I have seen full-body broadsides.

Please don't pontificate about shot placement... I'm as good at shot placement as most anyone I know... so there's no need to "highjack" the thread. :D

Thank you all... very much. :)
 
What you are looking for can be found well under $2000. Just go to the store and pick any off the shelf Model 70 Win., Model 700 Remington, Savage, or simular modern high power rifle.

A good quality 4-6 fixed power scope.

You don't need a magnum, a 270, 308, or '06 will do it.

If it can't be done with the above, then its not the rifle, its the shooter.
 
The OP seems unnecessarily fixated on head shots. Snipers don't. They take the best shot that presents itself, not necessarily brain shots.
 
How would a rifle be set up to specifically take head shots? Don't you just have to aim there?
 
another caliber to consider is a .338 lapua. but as you step out to farther range an off the shelf rifle will have a harder time as you start getting into things on higher end rifles like match triggers, or jeweled trigger movement, or set triggers heavier barrels, pillar beading, or fully floated barrels etc etc.

a rifle that can do all reasonably well out of the box i would say is a m1a in 308


A SNIPER RIFLE is any rifle which is designed, accurized, and specifically setup for the purpose of making a head shot on the target, animal or human.
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head is the worst place to aim as its one of the smaller targets. A sniper is going to take the shot that is most likely to achieve his goal. usually a body shot.

even with a scoped rifle I have never aimed at a deer's head when hunting. and doing so i think would be careless and a reckless way to hunt zombies or animals.
 
+1 to kraigwy's post.
Although I personally would like more power in the scope. 10-14X.
1/2 MOA is in the custom rifle area. Most straight factory guns seem to be in the 1MOA zone which should be sufficient for the o/p's needs. The Remington Sendero is a good choice but most of the others will do the job.
 
Re-examine sniper, stud hoss...getting 1,000 yard head shots is not the mission. Second, two off the shelf rifles are well suited to the sniper role: the AI AW and the Sako TRG series. Others, such as the FN USA SPR series, are close behind, with the lowest cost variant good to go sells for $2,450. Remington 700s can be made ready for under $1,000 and, given the $550 price of a R700 SPS Varmint or SPS Long Action, represents an economy way to go. My SPS Varmint, NIB with no mods, shot to <1/2" with .308 FGMM.

As to calibers, .308 Win and .260 Rem are very popular and common, 7mm RM, .300 WM and .338 LM are frequently seen in long range shooting matches. Senderos come in mag calibers and the SA .308 version is available for Remmy in the Varmint SF as well. You'll probably want to replace the stock, even if you are, by your own casual admission, as good a shooter as anyone here.

The Vortex PST is very good as is the Leupy Mk 4 series. NightForce, USO and S&B will go nearly $2,000 by themselves.

A well set up precision rifle with glass will set you back $2,500-8,500 and weigh at least 12 pounds. I think you may find that most elk live in high, and frequently steep territory, and lugging a 12#-15# rifle up the side of a Rocky Mountain may be prohibitive. I hunt with a Savage 116 or Win M70 in .30-06...both are 7.5 pound rifles that, with glass (mine have 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquests), come in under 8.5#. Since the rifles are <1 MOA shooters w/ my Barnes TTSX handloads, I feel pretty confident out to 350 yards...and I wouldn't take a headshot from a field position much past 50 yards. YMMV since you are a self-admitted expert.

Remember, as the Lone Ranger said, "It ain't the arrows, Tonto!".

FH
 
The other important consideration you have to have is the ammo, which Flatbush Harry touched on. A lot of normal ammo, even in high-dollar, top-notch rifles, won't group better than just under 1 moa or so because that is the limits of the quality control. You will likely need to be running high quality match ammo (expensive) or handload to have any chance at consistent long range sub-moa shooting. You might find a cheap factory load that just shoots exceptional in your rifle, but it will take some testing effort and luck.
 
What you need my friend is a quantum plasma mega blaster with inter-core hydra coil magnification and heat seeking titanium flux core rounds... that outta do it:)


In all honesty, I can shoot my surplus k31 and get the results that you posted. Its all about knowledge and practice. Pretty much any off the shelf high power rifle can make 1000 yard shots. you do not need a sub MOA rifle to shoot at 1000 yards. You only need that to win competitions, not to place rounds on target.
 
I don't think you can be sure of getting a "SUB half-minute" rifle off the shelf, from any manufacturer.

"Sub half-minute", is "sub half-minute", at any range. If it'll do it at 100 yards, it'll do it at 1000- most of the time. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, bullets fly the same from 100 to 1000 unless affected by external influences.

You might get lucky-happens sometimes with a production rifle.

Sub-minute, sure.
Sub half-minute, nah... can't bank on it.

That's the realm of custom builds. Like I said, anyone can get lucky.

Nor do I think there are many shooters that are capable printing a 3" group consistently at 600 yards with a 4x...even if the stick is capable of getting the job done.

But if you want a rifle guaranteed to shoot less than a half-minute of angle, only a custom builder will do that.

Your Vortex Viper PST is a great choice, and it would be mine...FFP is a big help for the type of accuracy you're trying to achieve at distance. But, that's almost half your budget, leaving about a grand for the rifle.

Pound and a half for the scope, leaves you 8-1/2 pounds for the rifle.
Personally, I would go with the Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in .300 WM or 7mm RM.

But I don't think you're gonna get sub half-minute accuracy from that gun, or any other rifle, for a grand.

Good luck, and let us know what you ended up with when you plunk down the plastic.
 
Take a peek at Coopers... This one is 260 remington... Sub MOA from the factory!

bba1f928.jpg
 
I get 1/4 MOA groups with my factory Savage 111 FCXP3 in 300 Win Mag shooting handloads. It shot 1/2 MOA on the first batch of rounds I loaded for it, and using the little 3-9x Bushnell scope it came with from the factory. After some load development and adding a 6-18x Nikon Buckmasters scope, I shoot consistent 1/2" groups at 200yds. I have what you described and I only paid $700 for it ($400 for the rifle, $300 for the scope). I might have just been one of the lucky ones, but my vote is get a Savage and use the money you save to put a decent piece of glass on it.
 
doesnt the weatherby vanguard come in a sub moa version from the factory for like 699 or something like that?
 
The tool is not the solution, it the operators ABILITY...

that counts.

All my deer rifle will group three shot within the radius of the "X" of a 200 yds standard target, from prone with sling. Talking M70, M88, & M100.

I use a M1 Garand(7.62mm, glass bedded per NM specs) & Cal.30 (Service grade), for over the course, 85% of 600 yds shots are withing the 10 ring.

Your friend needs to spend more time on the range, firing from position and not the bench. He should consider at minimum, .22LR silhouette shooting.

Most over the counter rifle are more accurate than the shooter, handloading increases the accuracy.
 
Thank you all...

getting 1,000 yard head shots is not the mission
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Agreed, and I said so in my thread start.

Personally, I would go with the Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in .300 WM
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Agreed! I think that's a nice choice!

Your Vortex Viper PST is a great choice, and it would be mine...FFP is a big help for the type of accuracy you're trying to achieve
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FFP it is... I will take this advice for sure.

YMMV since you are a self-admitted expert.
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Where did this come from?

What you need my friend is a quantum plasma mega blaster with inter-core hydra coil magnification and heat seeking titanium flux core rounds... that outta do it.
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You betcha... but I looked on every shelf... and those things are rare as hen's teeth! (and more than I can afford... :D)

even with a scoped rifle I have never aimed at a deer's head when hunting.
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Neither have I... That's the purpose of this thread... to explore the possibility. I have lost several good opportunities because I couldn't take a responsible shot..."from a field position".

Thanks everyone for your assistance. A few of you were very helpful in nailing it down for me.

NOTE: I don't believe that a rifle that shoots one ragged hole at 100 yard's can do sub-MOA at all ranges out to 1000 yards... bullet weight and design and ballistic coefficient and sectional density (as well as weather, as was mentioned) will make a big difference.

PLEASE, EVERYBODY NOTE THAT I DON'T INTEND TO TAKE LONG RANGE HEAD SHOTS... I just want a rifle that's capable of it. If the rifle can do it at 1000 yards... then I can use that rifle to take a shot behind the ear at normal hunting ranges well under 400. Or so goes my theory. :rolleyes: :eek:

Thanks again everybody.
 
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