Sneaky Concealed Carry

S

Steve Smith

New member
Fellow posters, please help me with this. I leagally carry concealed almost all the time. About once a week, my job requires me to go to a facility with very high security. This establishment has a "no firarms past this point" sign, and vehicle searches are somewhat common (I've never had one in 7 years, but it culd happen to me tommorrow). I don't want to leave my gun at home just because I'm going to that site that day. What to do? One option I have is the "day planner" style carry, and just get out with it if there's a vehicle check. Any thoughts? Do I even try this?
 
Better idea would be to keep your gun on your person until after the check, in a holster on your body, then leave it in the car once the check is done (or there is no check).
 
RikWriter, that's another thing I was thinking about too, is just keeping it IWB...is that what you're suggesting? Also, I failed to mention that I do leave it in the car once I'm past the checkpoint.
 
How in-depth are the vehicle searchs? Could you put the weapon in the spare tire well prior to approaching the facility? If not, are personal searchs likely? IWB might be the best bet, as well as carrying a smaller, more easily concealed weapon on those days.

One question, though. What type of facility are we talking about? If the facility is civilian, you risk civil liability, getting fired, or maybe criminal liability. If the facility is government, you can go to jail in about three seconds. The reason I ask is that I work for a federal utility and some of our plants are nuclear. Carrying a weapon onto those facilities will put you UNDER the jail.
 
buzz_knox...that's the kinda security I'm talking about. You'd poop you pants if I told you what it is. No way would leaving the gun in the car be a good choice. I really don't want to stop carrying on those days (obviously I have been a little). Personal searches are not likely due to the fact that they're conducted at the entry of the facility, not the gate going into the parking lot where the vehicle searches happen (a fault in security if you ask me). Order goes like this:
Drive up road and pass "no weapons" sign.
Drive to gate, guard inspects IDs, and possibly does a search. Saying, "I'd rather just leave" at this point could cause all kinds of problems.
Drive to parking lot.
Walk to security building and pass through metal detector system and another ID check. Maybe I'll look into building a holster in a hat and wear the gun on my head during the search. ;)
 
Frontsight

You're not from around Oak Ridge, are you? I was raised around there and that's the type of security the nuclear plants have.

Here's my advice: don't carry there. Is there any palce that you can safely leave your weapon prior to going to the plant/facility? I've worked for DOE and right now work for another federal agency. They take this stuff VERY seriously.
 
Have you considered suggesting (anominously(sp?)) that they begin providing lock boxes at the first check point for those that may legally carry concealed to secure their weapons?

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Is there a private post office-type business, like Mail Boxes Etc., anywhere nearby? If so, you might consider renting a lockable private mail box and using it to temporarily store your handgun while you have to do business at the secure facility. Drop it off just before you go to the facility and retrieve it after you're done. Put it in a medium/large brown mailing envelope so no one knows what you're carrying. This might be inconvenient for you, but less convenient than if you're caught with a weapon where you're not supposed to have one.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Now let me get this straight - this is a place where they have signs that tell you not to bring firearms, they may search your car, and may search your person, and you STILL want to carry a gun in there? Am i the only one that thinks this is a totally stupid thing to do? This whole topic sounds like a good way to get a TFL member sent to jail for carrying a gun in a place where he/she is obviously not supposed to.
 
Gunslinger has the best idea. Good from their point of view and you don't have to do anything threatening. Anything the forum suggests to get past the guards is apparently suggesting ways to get away with a pretty serious crime from the way you're talking.

No offense, guys, but you could be talking to a hacker who wants to find a way in. You don't have any idea that you're even really talking to Frontsight. I don't think Rich would like this. Let's hear more about how to convince the place that they need those lockboxes and less about how to defeat security and pray you don't get caught and sent to prison. It seems like Frontsight doesn't even want to carry inside the plant so the lockbox is a fine solution for him too.
 
The lock box idea, although great, won't work for two reasons:

1. the facility won't want to take responsibility for the safe storage of "deadly weapons" (or any type of property for that matter)

2. if the lock box is located near the gate, then you are already on the property. Carrying a weapon inside the restricted zone of the property is just as illegal as carrying inside the facility itself.

Frontsight, don't do it. Trust me. I'm a lawyer who does employment work for my agency and this would not only get you fired at a minimum, it WILL get you thrown in the slammer and/or a fine of up to around $10,000. If it's a nuclear facility, it will also get you an opportunity to experience an agressive take down with a Glock or Sig to the back of the head.
 
Since you`re "legal" and in a CCW state, they should provide the lock boxes at the first checkpoint. I think I know what this place is and it ain`t a good idea to have the weapon unsecured. They probably have a background check on you and you could get seriously screwed if a supervisor has 2 brain cells that rub together. This is serious business. You better leave it home or find a way to legitimatly (sp) secure it.
 
Frontsight and Chad,

I agree with Chad. Unless you are really off the wall (and you don't sound like it), leave your gun at home on those days.

How often have you been attacked? How often have you used your gun? Do you have to travel in very bad areas? I suspect that for you, the risk from some kind of attack is really very low, while the risk of going to jail if you are caught is very very high.

Of course, if you are one of the "I got my rights" guys, then you figure out ways to minimize the risks of getting caught. And if you get caught, you can discuss rights with the big smelly guy with AIDS who is raping you in your cell.

Jim
 
Sounds like Frontsight does some contract work in a jail or prison. At least one federal prison that I personally know of allows commercial delivery drivers to place their weapons in the same lock boxes used by lawenforcement officers who are visiting the institution; for transporting inmates, investigations, ect. They may allow Frontsight to do it also, provided that he can show that he is carrying the weapon legally. These issues are usually entirely at the discretion of the Warden. It may depend on how important the services being provided are, and how much competition there is. It could simply be a matter of no one having considered the issue before.

It is important to remember that, in spite of the signs posted at the entrance (federal prisons anyway), the normal rules of probable cause apply, unless you can be intimidated into consenting to a search. A member of the public always retains the right to refuse a search and immediately leave the premisis of the institution; unles probable cause exists for making an arrest.
 
My time in Air Defense took me into some very secure places, like NORAD and the Tactical Air Control centers in a couple theaters of operation. I would absolutely NOT advise attempting to slip your weapon past the security, unless you enjoy assuming the position and spending time in the graybar hotel.

Ever thought of bolting a small gun safe inside your trunk? It could be useful on many occasions. You'd still have to clear its use with the facility.

You could ask the facility about a lockbox at the gate. If they're government, they probably have one for visiting dignitaries. If you don't want to leave it at the gate, you'll either have to leave it at home or find safe storage near the gate. Maybe a friendly gun shop nearby would lock it up for you.


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Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
 
I spoke to the chief of security at the facility about an hour ago. A lockbox idea is a no-go, mainly because it doesn't suit him. Even though I truly am a low-risk individual, I still hate the idea that I can't carry on certain days. David Scott...does the order of events sound familiar? That's a hint. Apparently the security has already had this problem with others, and while no harm has come to them, just a "take that home and then you can come in" lecture has been given, the signs are all new and they don't want it to happen again. Gwinnydapooh, you have a very good point, that I'm not me. Let's be carefull about this. There's nothing around the area where I can drop the gun off. This is all very frustrating. P.S. It's not that I NEED to carry THERE. It's that I have the gun when I go to work (like a lot of folks do). I have to do to this "place" and I don't have a place to put the gun when I leave the area I'm liscensed for. ellswothtoohey, I'm not sure this right applies in this place.
 
Sounds like the type of security on the military base where I work as part of security. If your weapon were to be discovered in the vehicle, I would be forced to conduct a felony vehicle search and arrest type of action, with much back up! You would be detained for the remainder of the search, and you would be smacked with federal firearms charges, as it is federal property and firearms restrictions are clearly sign posted.
Does this sound familiar? "Entrance of this facility constitutes consent to search of vehicle and all items under personal control"?? Legally, that means that just by showing up at the gate with intent to gain entry you consent to search-vehicle, personal, whatever. You've voluntary (if non verbally) waived your rights that necessitate a search warrent. Trust me, I go through this all the time. Try and fight it in court, and the judge will ask you if you can read the signs and why you felt that you were special? Then you're done for. I've seen it on both of the two occasions that it happened here in the last 6 years that someone knowingly and without authorization brought a handgun onto our installation.
If they don't provide lock boxes, your only option is to leave it home, and travel only form home to the installation, and straight back again. Forget the Inspector Gadget hat, the planner, and any type of carry that conceals it on your person. If you were discovered just carrying it around, as in normal concealed carry, you would learn new meanings to the words "Man with a gun" response! Intent to conceal a weapon in these types of facilities is the next best thing to intent for terrorist activity, and security forces train and respond accordingly. Don't bring it!!
Don't believe me? Just ask your lawyer how much it would cost you for him to even begin to get the paperwork together to face charges associated with having an unauthorized firearm in such a place!!!!!!

Tom


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A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!

[This message has been edited by Banzai (edited March 03, 2000).]
 
Looks like I'm just outta luck...Thanks for the interesting info, guys. I guess I knew this answer all along, but needed to hear it from someone else.

[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited March 03, 2000).]
 
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