Smith & Wesson Model 19/686, or Glock 17/19 for a first home defense gun?

I pick the Glock only because of the lightness.

But I have a S&W 638 Air weight snub for SD and HD, and I have a large variety of guns, from big to small.

TBS, I use the NY reload, for a retreat gun. Go ahead, make my year!
 
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I'll agree with others and say a 686 4 inch and yes it is a big gun and i like big guns.

I have one and keep it in a 3 gun rotation year round.The only downfall to them is they arent the easiest for small people to conceal but i'm on the big side and i do just fine with mine


It's an old pic but it proves it can be concealed with the right cloths
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@OP Given that you live in LA County, might want to consider your options based solely on HD and range use.

Los Angeles Total (Adult Residents: 7,416,397)

Total licensed:

Civilian 220
Law Enforcement/Government Employees 455

Source
 
Anferny,

Good questions... let's answer them.

1. I keep hearing that semi-auto pistols aren't good for casual users because of the fact that they require much more attention and care than revolvers, and that you need to practice and maintain them regularly. Is this true, or are semi autos fine for people like us?
Most semi-autos do require a bit more care. Parts need to be lightly oiled or greased to work smoothly and reliably. Some guns can get "dry" with months of sitting idly. The manual of arms can be more complicated for pistols too. There are levers to move (on many) which can be confusing to new shooters (which one is the safety?). Parts move on their own after firing and there are specific sequenced steps for loading and unloading. Thus, for "casual" users who may not touch the gun for months or perhaps a year or more, revolvers will seem much less complicated.

2. I also keep hearing that a .357 Magnum is too much for home defense, and that .357 rounds can over-penetrate, and the muzzle flash and noise can temporarily blind or deafen you. Should I just use .38 rounds for home defense?
In general, yes. The .357 Magnum is merely a longer cartridge case for the .38 Special. But there is a lot more energy packed in there. Using the same bullet weights, the .38 special flies around 900 ft/sec max and makes up to 278 ft-lbs. The .357 can shove that same bullet at 1400 ft/sec and get you almost 600 ft-lbs. Yup, it uses more powder to do that and all that energy burning up creates gas and noise. And concussion! Noise? Drop a fat hardcover dictionary flat onto your kitchen floor for the .38 Special. Then invert your dining table and drop it from the same height. .357 Magnum.

38-357.jpg

.38 Special (left) vs. .357 Magnum cartridges

Few homes are bulletproof. Especially apartments. Sheetrock walls, even with insulation, are little more than an inconvenience for any center-fire bullet. At an angle, the .38 might be stopped by a 2x4 fir stud but it's unlikely that the .357 will stop. Bullets marked .38 Special +P may not stop but are more likely to stop than a .357. The recoil of the .357 is much harder to control too. For casual users it can take 1-2 seconds or longer to get off a 2nd shot. The .38 Special +P ammo with quality hollowpoint bullets are quite adequate for most urban home-defense situations.

SW_M64_07_PB.jpg

Smith & Wesson Model 64 with 4-inch early round "Pencil Barrel"
This is the stainless steel version of the Model 10 with a standard barrel.


3. If I get a revolver, should it have a 4 inch or 6 inch barrel? I may or may not be able to carry it (thanks to the retarded laws here in CA), so which would be better for home defense?
Most recommended is a 3" to 4" barrel instead of the 6-inch barrel. The rationale is that if you are surprised by an intruder who grabs your gun barrel, with a 6-inch he may get sufficient leverage to wrench it free of your grasp. A barrel of 3-4 inches offers less "purchase" for his grip and puts his hand in or near places where hot gases or lead will come out. Barrels less than 3" are harder to shoot accurately (especially in the dark) and can sacrifice velocity and bullet energy.
SW_M64_162506_01_md.jpg

Smith & Wesson Model 64, Stainless, current production, 4-inch "heavy barrel"
This is the stainless steel version of the blued Model 10.


4. How much harder is it to shoot a compact pistol as opposed to a full size one? Me and my wife both have large hands, so it shouldn't be too hard to use a full sized Glock 17, but would a Glock 19 be any better?
Having used both the Glock 17 and 19, at close range there isn't a lot of difference. Inside the home, if the front sight is centered on the target and roughly aligned with the rear sight, that's "close enough" for a fast shot.

While the Glock is a quality firearm, I never recommend them as a 1st gun or for those who rarely shoot for proficiency. First and foremost, there are no external safeties on the Glock (this includes the XD and most of S&W's M&P line). It becomes all too easy for someone to pick up the gun and place their finger on the trigger and incur a negligent discharge. Because a revolver's mechanism depends on a minimum of muscular action, even though there is no safety, the level of effort is much higher.

Keep in mind however, that the longer the distance between the front and rear sight, the more accuracy you can achieve and further away. For home defense, generally you're looking at 7-10 yards (21-30 ft) as your shooting distance.

M67_1673GL.jpg

Two of a kind: A S&W Model 15 (blued) and Model 67 (Stainless) in .38 Special. These are the higher grade versions of the Model 10, with adjustable sights, flat barrel rib and ramp front sight.

Reminder - The .357 Magnum can chamber and shoot the .38 Special cartridges, giving you the option of selecting the power level you want. Revolvers chambered for .38 Special cannot chamber the longer .357 Magnum cartridge, however.

M195-G1.jpg

S&W Model 19 (discontinued), .357 Magnum, 4-inch barrel. The Model 19 has been replaced by the L-frame 586/686 series of revolvers

I hope that helps.
 
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Good information BillCA. My thinking is much like yours. I believe for the average person that is not going practice a lot the revolver is the best choice. A 4 inch barrel too me is the idea size for home defense. Any of the S&W revolvers in 38 or 357 magnum are good choices. So are Ruger. The reason I recommended a model 10 or 64 is because they can be bought used for a reasonable price. As far as buying a model 10 in California, that is not a problem. Currently the model 10-14 4 inch is on the approved list of handguns. Plus a person can buy a older used model 10 or 64 as a private party transfer or from a gunshop that has one on consignment.
I have nothing against semi-autos. But to me they are not the best option for newer shooters as a home defense handgun.
Regards,
Howard
 
The issue I've heard (and agree with) regarding shooting someone in SA isn't the liability of a ND (although that has merit also). It's that if you cock the hammer back, you are demonstrating intent to fire the weapon BEFORE you were justified in using lethal force. You are showing that you planned to shoot someone and at the time you did it you were not in danger.

Shooting double action all you did ahead of time was keep a loaded gun, this doesn't show unreasonable intent. If you stored the gun in SA (not advisable), this argument is negated. But if you pick up the gun and do anything to demonstrate intent, you are providing a potential argument to the prosecution.

There is also the case that if you train SA you won't be good at DA, and often you won't have time to cock the hammer if you are using the gun for defense.

To the OP, I recommend the .38 Special loaded revolver. I think semi-autos are being portrayed as more finnicky than they are, but the fact remains you could load a revolver today and fire it 200 years from now as long as the ammunition is still good. Semi-autos have springs and such that go bad, but it takes a long time and a lot of shooting. Some require special knowledge to use (is a round chambered? How do I check? Safeties?). A revolver can be handed to anyone in the world and they can tell if its loaded, and make it fire immediately, without ever having handled a gun.

Either is fine, but the revolver is more user-friendly to a casual shooter.
 
I think it would be a good idea to try maybe a few more guns and to try to learn as much as you can about the ones you like. Everyones experince and training are different, and if yoy ask 10 different people which is best, you will likely get 10 different answers. Many people who work in gun shops, ranges, or just gun owners in general, are very opinionated and its near impossible to get an unbiased reccomendation. Your two choices are both excellent guns, I have two Glocks and a 686. I think the 686 is one of the finest all around do everything gun ever made. Its probably safer for a less experienced shooter. Glocks are my favorite semi autos, I carry them mostly. I however have shot about 25k rounds through them and they are second nature to me. One thing I can say for sure is that you don't ever want to shoot a 357 indoors, it is shocking how loud they are and I personally load mine with 38+p when its being carried or on nightstand duty. One last thing is that it takes more than just trying a gun once or twice to know if it will work for you. As your experince and knowledge increase, youmay find what you prefer will change. I would go with the Glock, as 9mm is much cheaper to shhot, 357 costs about 3x what 9 does, and 38 about twice what 9 costs. Glocks require very little maintenance, there's not much to worry about with them. Don't rush your decision, talk to everyone you can, combine all the info, and decide for yourself which you want. Noone can tell you what's best for you. Good luck!
 
biohazurd said:
IMO a glock 9mm with a 33 rnd factory mag fits all my needs for a HD handgun.

And that is not an answer to the OP's question. It's not about whether a Glock fits your needs he's asking about.

MonsterB - The above response applies here. You would go with a Glock but you've had 25,000 rounds practice and you're utterly familiar with the platform. The OP is not and may not achieve your round count before he retires.

About the only auto without an external safety that I might recommend for novice shooters is a Kahr pistol with their revolver-like double-action-only trigger pull. Their full size T-series would be better for home defense, even though I like the smaller K-9/K-40 more.
KahrT-9teas2.gif

Kahr T9 Pistol, 9mm
 
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Either will do!

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OR

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or any of these below (and yes all of 'em are mine!)

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The trick is to become good with whatever you decide. S&W revolvers are outstanding. Rugers to. And Glocks, yea bit more complex but more firepower. All can be mastered without to much trouble.

Shoot some of them and see what you like best. Or for fun, get a good S&W AND a Glock. Might need some backup one day!

Deaf
 
revolver

Open it, fill the holes, close it, shoot until it won't shoot no more. Open it, knock out empty cases, fill the holes..........

The revolver has a simpler manual of arms and is well suited for casual shooters.

Plus, you can shoot assorted power levels. .38 wadcutter are easy target rounds, .38 JHP a bit more juice, and .357 the upper limits.
 
west german sig over the glock?

they can be had for 400-500 dollars on the used market, add another 100 for CA fees.

As reliable as a revolver or glock, with the firepower of the glock, the safer long double action trigger pull of the revolver...

Just a suggestion.

Though remember, firepower factor is somewhat negated due to CA's 10 round limit.

A 7 or 8 shot 357 loaded with 38 plus ps would be a good idea, too.
 
Revolvers are simpler, no slides to rack, no safeties to mess with, no grip safety to tie you up if your grip isn't just right, no mag safety if the mag falls out, .... just simpler. You pull the trigger and it goes bang...with a 2nd try if it doesn't. Training to actually use a revolver is simple...and you'll remember ten years from now how to do it...the auto...unless you fire it once or twice a year...not so. Ammunition..any good gun shop owner can help you pick what's right for your situation...apartment where over-penetration may be a problem say, vs. a farmhouse, where you are going to have to wait awhile til help arrives...Capacity, it's not going to be the OK corral...a revolver is fine.

As to usage in a HD situation...I'd prefer a shotgun...over any handgun...bird shot or small buckshot...and our plan is to remain in a safe upstairs bedroom until the police arrive...with the door locked...shooting is a last resort, and for that reason, the convenient size of a handgun allows us to keep one in my wife's usual haunts around the house...a kitchen, frig top for instance...where she can get it while running upstairs to call the police and barricade herself...

When she's walking the dog along our farm access road, she carries a S&W M-637 .38 Special in her hip bag...but getting her to do it consistently is a constant headache. Our daughter in law, a country real estate lady, carries all the time, and has had to back out of an empty house recently, when "it didn't feel empty when I went in"...she's smart and AWARE of her surroundings...and that's more than half the battle in self-defense.

Pick one...any gun...that your wife can and WILL use if necessary...get some training too...both of you...and keep a phone where you can use it to call for help.

Rod
 
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+1 on what Rodfac and others are saying about revolvers and a ++1 for having shotgun for home defense! I have to agree with the 'OK Corral comment, too. The odds of needing a handgun for self-defense are pretty remote but does happen. I am not a gang member or a drug dealer so the odds of being in a situation where you would need multiple reloads is even more remote 'but can still happen'. So you are playing the odds. I view it as akin to car accidents. The odds of me being in a car accident is probably far more likely than my ever needing a gun for defense. I wear a seat belt 100% of the time when driving. What I don't do is wear a helmet, fire-suit, body harness and have a full NASCAR style roll-cage even though statistically I am probably far more likely to die in an auto accident than I am to be killed in a gunfight. Now, I can only apply the above opinions to me and me alone. Every one of us has to make our own decisions on what is best for us...and that makes life a lot more interesting than if we were all of the same opinion.

When I started on the police department back in 1975, my shift sergeant issued me two service revolvers (Model 66 .357 and a S&W snubby .38) and as he handed them to me he made a point of saying "These are just to keep the bad guys occupied until you can get to the shotgun!" The only shooting I was involved in was when my partner shot a fleeing burglar just as he was racing around the corner of the business he had broken into. 1 round of 00 buckshot at about 10 feet broke his left shoulder and upper arm in 8 places. I got 'volunteered' to guard him at the hospital and saw the x-rays before he went into surgery and I was amazed at the damage he sustained.

I will never be without a shortened .12 gauge pump shotgun in my house for defense but is not practical to carry outside of the home. If you want to keep a gun nearby while at home, a shotgun is a bit cumbersome to carry around from room to room and a handgun 'to keep the bad guys occupied" until you can get to it is a good idea. For me that would be a revolver because that is what I am most familiar with and trust "but your mileage may vary". I have a buddy who was a cop with me in that same era and he now has 2 .40 cal auto-loaders and a .380 auto-loader and wouldn't have a revolver if you gave it to him. We have discussions about this from time to time and neither one of us can convince the other to change opinions.

So.....look at lots of handguns and choose the one that works best for you based on your situation. For CCW, the best handgun you can ever buy is 'the one you will carry with you' regardless of caliber. A 1911 is one heck of a weapon to have on you if the SHTF but absolutely worthless IF it is at home when you need it because you found it is too cumbersome to carry with you. For several years I carried a full-sized 1911 in a shoulder holster on duty as a backup weapon under my uniform jacket in the winter but even though I know it was designed to be carried cocked-n'locked, I could just never bring myself to do so. Again, just playing the odds, I always reasoned that I was more likely to accidentally shoot myself than be in a situation where I needed to get it into action asap. I quit carrying it at all after several winters and went back to revolvers because I just felt better with them.
 
slong115...by the number of posts listed under your avatar, you're new here, but definitely not new to some very thoughtful self defense/home defense considerations...nice post, well thought out...your LEO background is evident...thanks for your service. Rod
 
Thanks, Rodfac.

I decided after about 4 years that being a cop was not really what I wanted to do for the rest of my life and I was lucky enough to be able to leave it behind. The downside was that I really stopped shooting handguns about the same time and although I kept my Python and Model 29 for about 10 years after that I hardly ever shot them and eventually sold both of them.

Went range shooting a few days ago with my semi-auto fan buddy. He let me fire his compact M&P 40 and after a short time I started to lose my feelings against a semi-auto. I have to admit that it was FUN. I am woefully out of practice, though, and need some trigger time to see if I can get proficient again. There was a time back in the 1970's where another non-cop buddy and I started hand-loading and there were many weeks where we would each fire 250 rounds or more. I was amazed at how much my shooting improved after a few of those high-volume shooting sessions. My department was supposed to issue each of us 50 practice rounds a month (wadcutters) but actually getting them was a rare treat which is what got me into reloading.

Now another friend of mine (retired cop) is even gently steering me towards a semi-auto. He started on the police dept the same time I did (in the revolver days) but the dept changed over to autos about 15 years after I left and he became a fan of them shortly after that. He is going with me when I start gun shopping. I wish I had the money to buy BOTH! LOL
 
Slong...welcome back to the shooting community...it's changed considerably...the cost has gone up!

Reloading is still the way to save some dollars. But sometimes you find a little gem in factory ammunition...example: Walmart has Federal 9mm 115 gr FMJ for $19.97 for a 100 round box. I've hand-loaded for almost 50 yrs now and that price is within .02 cents of what I can load it for using jacketed bullets and not counting the case. It's brass cased as well. Their price on Winchester white box, 100 round count, .45 ACP FMJ is $37 here in Ky. Both are accurate in my guns...the 9mm is the most accurate round in a new Glock 19, and the .45 load is the top jacketed round through my Ruger SR1911, as well as an older Combat Commander.

The advent of polymer autos has broadened the field considerably...but I'm still a blued steel and walnut guy...and the 1911 is still the king for me. You pays your nickle and takes your choice...Best regards, Rod
 
While I love the 686 I would rather a 1911 in doors, not much size differance.
It has a bit more capacity,and to me my357 with a 4" barrel is very,very loud
indoors and has a great deal of muzzle flash.just my 2cents.
 
I like revolvers, a good 3 to 4 inch barreled 38Spl or 357 mag loaded with 38 spl. is hard to beat..I like staggered loads ..being that I'm planning on shooting more than once a low recoiling 38 SPL.148 gr LSWC is first out of the shoot followed by 38Spl. +P 158 LSWCHP
A Taurus Judge with high quality Federal Handgun 410 ammo in 000 Buck is another good choice

In Semi Auto ..I like pistols with hammers and decokers ,Ruger P series ..SIGs and such....180 gr. HP 40 S&W is a good round
 
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