Smith and Wesson serial number search
- Thread starter Driveout02
- Start date
Thanks. It's definitely single action. Looking at pictures on Google, it looks like the New Model Number Three. Mine is the 12th serial number after a shipment to Japan in 1896, so it must be around that time frame.
Thanks!
BTW, where do you get this information from? Is it the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson? I just picked up a copy off Amazon.
Mod 27 (I think) serial number search
I have what I believe to be an early mod 27 357 mag. I say this because of the narrow line checkering on the rib and rear sight. On the flat on the cylinder side where the crane rests is the number 24707 with a 7 below. The serial number on the square butt is S 102xxx. The barrel is 3 1/2 in with a pinned barrel and the front sight blade has 2 pins. And the cylinder has recessed chambers. Can any one give me an idea as to the year of mfg? Thanks
I have what I believe to be an early mod 27 357 mag. I say this because of the narrow line checkering on the rib and rear sight. On the flat on the cylinder side where the crane rests is the number 24707 with a 7 below. The serial number on the square butt is S 102xxx. The barrel is 3 1/2 in with a pinned barrel and the front sight blade has 2 pins. And the cylinder has recessed chambers. Can any one give me an idea as to the year of mfg? Thanks
Dave Anderson
New member
The serial number dates to 1953-1954, most likely 1954.
This would be a pre-number model (model numbers weren't assigned until 1957) and was simply called the .357 Magnum.
Heritage Ranch
Inactive
greetings all, this is a great thread and I thank everyone for the information that has been shared. I tried to source a copy of the recommended books at the local library with no success. as I have only 1 smith and wesson revolver I would like to ask for your assistance in estimating the age of mine. It is a double action 22 long rifle with around a 6 inch barrel. I suspect it is on the K frame as the serial number is k 216xxx. it is a great little gun to shoot with a nice adjustable rear sight and a sweet trigger pull. I see no model number designation on it's. on 1 side the barrel says smith and wesson. and the other side of the barrel says 22 long rifle cartridge. I don't suspect it to be very valuable as it is just a shooter showing significant wear and tear, but is in excellent mechanical working condition. And certainly more accurate than I am. thank you for any information you can give me about this piece and I'll try to attach a picture.
Thanks HR
Thanks HR
BrownTrout
New member
Strange pre-10?
Hi gentlemen. I just bought what I was told is a S&W pre-model 10. serial is 8572xx. The bbl. is 2 3/8" or so. There is no cartridge designation on the barrel (leading me to believe it was maybe cut-down), however the front sight/crown etc. appear to surely be factory, and when I asked the seller, he assured me it was not cut.
there is no shroud on the ejector rod, the left side of the revolver is completely blank (no stamping). The right side reads "Made in USA" above the trigger, and the S&W logo between the grip and cylinder. The number 92904 is stamped both on the crane and the inside of the frame, but is not the serial.
The cylinder has "ENGLAND" stamped on it once. There is a very small crown/BNP, spaced every-other chamber, a total of 3 around.
It appears it was chambered in .38-200 and the chambers updated to accept .38 special.
It is a 5-screw, checkered (rather than smooth wartime) walnut grips, blued with case-color hammer and trigger. Hammer is narrow and finely checkered, trigger is grooved.
Does anyone out there know what I have? I don't know if it's rare or a chopped up classic...
Hi gentlemen. I just bought what I was told is a S&W pre-model 10. serial is 8572xx. The bbl. is 2 3/8" or so. There is no cartridge designation on the barrel (leading me to believe it was maybe cut-down), however the front sight/crown etc. appear to surely be factory, and when I asked the seller, he assured me it was not cut.
there is no shroud on the ejector rod, the left side of the revolver is completely blank (no stamping). The right side reads "Made in USA" above the trigger, and the S&W logo between the grip and cylinder. The number 92904 is stamped both on the crane and the inside of the frame, but is not the serial.
The cylinder has "ENGLAND" stamped on it once. There is a very small crown/BNP, spaced every-other chamber, a total of 3 around.
It appears it was chambered in .38-200 and the chambers updated to accept .38 special.
It is a 5-screw, checkered (rather than smooth wartime) walnut grips, blued with case-color hammer and trigger. Hammer is narrow and finely checkered, trigger is grooved.
Does anyone out there know what I have? I don't know if it's rare or a chopped up classic...
Heritage Ranch
Inactive
thanks jim,
you guys got a great group here. hopefully someday I'll be able to contribute more than just questions. thank you again for the information.
Thanks HR
you guys got a great group here. hopefully someday I'll be able to contribute more than just questions. thank you again for the information.
Thanks HR
Dave Anderson
New member
Brown Trout re strange pre-10
This is some information from "A History of Smith & Wesson" by Roy Jinks, along with some "informed estimates".
On March 11, 1940 S&W began making Military & Police revolvers for British Commonwealth nations then at war with Germany. They were chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge. Since the British service load was a 200 gr. lead roundnose bullet they were often referred to as .38/200 British service revolvers.
They were made in 4, 5, and 6" barrel lengths. Initially, from March 11, 1940 to December 4, 1941, they had the same high-polish bright blue finish as regular commercial S&Ws. From Dec 4, 1941 to April 10, 1942 they had a brushed blue finish. After April 10 1942 they had a parkerized finish.
The company was making 6,000 to 7,000 of these revolvers a month. On April 24, 1942 the M&P serial numbers reached 999999. S&W started over again at s/n 1, with a "V" (for victory) prefix.
Doing the arithmetic, take 999999, deduct 857200, and divide by (we'll estimate) 6,500 revolvers made per month, and we can estimate your revolver was made about 22 months before the V prefix was introduced on April 24, 1942, or roughly June/July 1940.
Obviously we don't know exactly how many revolvers were made each month so this is only an estimate, but it is a reasonable estimate.
After the war Britain was desperately in need of foreign exchange to rebuild its country and repay war debts. Thousands of military arms (e.g. Lee-Enfields and S&W revolvers) were exported to Commonwealth nations (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) and to the U.S.
Many of the S&W .38 S&W revolvers were rechambered before export to accept the much more popular (in the U.S.) .38 Special cartridge by firms such as Parker-Hale and Cogswell & Harrison. Also, many which were exported still in the original .38 S&W chambering were later rechambered to .38 Special by U.S. gunsmiths.
The conversion was not a very good idea. The .38 Special cartridge is longer, has more case capacity, and in factory loads is generally more powerful than the .38 S&W cartridge. It is also a bit smaller in diameter, fits loosely in lengthened .38 S&W chambers, and expands considerably on firing. It's a conversion no responsible company or gunsmith would ever consider doing today.
It was common in the 1950s and '60s to see these revolvers advertised with barrels shortened and a new front sight installed. I guess the idea was to make them look more like the S&W Chiefs Special and Colt Detective Special revolvers which were very popular at the time (and still are, for that matter).
To address your question "is it rare or a chopped up classic", from the information you've provided I'd lean to a "chopped up classic" opinion.
This is some information from "A History of Smith & Wesson" by Roy Jinks, along with some "informed estimates".
On March 11, 1940 S&W began making Military & Police revolvers for British Commonwealth nations then at war with Germany. They were chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge. Since the British service load was a 200 gr. lead roundnose bullet they were often referred to as .38/200 British service revolvers.
They were made in 4, 5, and 6" barrel lengths. Initially, from March 11, 1940 to December 4, 1941, they had the same high-polish bright blue finish as regular commercial S&Ws. From Dec 4, 1941 to April 10, 1942 they had a brushed blue finish. After April 10 1942 they had a parkerized finish.
The company was making 6,000 to 7,000 of these revolvers a month. On April 24, 1942 the M&P serial numbers reached 999999. S&W started over again at s/n 1, with a "V" (for victory) prefix.
Doing the arithmetic, take 999999, deduct 857200, and divide by (we'll estimate) 6,500 revolvers made per month, and we can estimate your revolver was made about 22 months before the V prefix was introduced on April 24, 1942, or roughly June/July 1940.
Obviously we don't know exactly how many revolvers were made each month so this is only an estimate, but it is a reasonable estimate.
After the war Britain was desperately in need of foreign exchange to rebuild its country and repay war debts. Thousands of military arms (e.g. Lee-Enfields and S&W revolvers) were exported to Commonwealth nations (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) and to the U.S.
Many of the S&W .38 S&W revolvers were rechambered before export to accept the much more popular (in the U.S.) .38 Special cartridge by firms such as Parker-Hale and Cogswell & Harrison. Also, many which were exported still in the original .38 S&W chambering were later rechambered to .38 Special by U.S. gunsmiths.
The conversion was not a very good idea. The .38 Special cartridge is longer, has more case capacity, and in factory loads is generally more powerful than the .38 S&W cartridge. It is also a bit smaller in diameter, fits loosely in lengthened .38 S&W chambers, and expands considerably on firing. It's a conversion no responsible company or gunsmith would ever consider doing today.
It was common in the 1950s and '60s to see these revolvers advertised with barrels shortened and a new front sight installed. I guess the idea was to make them look more like the S&W Chiefs Special and Colt Detective Special revolvers which were very popular at the time (and still are, for that matter).
To address your question "is it rare or a chopped up classic", from the information you've provided I'd lean to a "chopped up classic" opinion.
BrownTrout
New member
Thanks Dave
@ Dave, I really appreciate the information. Would anyone be able to estimate a value?
Bluing is very nice, I'd say 95%, grips are very nice too.
But I'm wondering if I overpaid...
@ Dave, I really appreciate the information. Would anyone be able to estimate a value?
Bluing is very nice, I'd say 95%, grips are very nice too.
But I'm wondering if I overpaid...
Dave Anderson
New member
Generally I don't do value estimates, I doubt anyone would be prepared to estimate value without at least some good quality photos. I can suggest a couple of pros and cons.
Cons first:
1. Based on your information it appears there is no collector value. Military collectors want unaltered examples, and in any case U.S. collectors naturally tend to be more interested in revolvers made for and used by U.S. armed forces.
2. M&P revolvers prior to s/n V769000 (about December 1944) had an older style spring-powered hammer block which could on occasion stick and not function as intended. A new more positive hammer block was designed at the request of the U.S. Navy after a sailor was killed when a revolver was dropped onto a steel deck. With the older hammer block I'd only carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.
3. Although it's been done thousands of times I personally wouldn't shoot .38 Specials in one of these converted .38 S&Ws.
Pros:
1. It is an S&W and it is not junk. At the time it was made it was equal in quality and finish to S&W commercial production. Even those made in later years under wartime pressure were every bit as good in terms of steel quality, heat treatment, parts fit and operation, just without the fine polish and blue finish.
2. Checkered grips with the diamond pattern around the grip screw would be correct for the time this was made. They may well be the original grips and as such would have collector value in themselves.
3. You say the barrel length is 2 3/8", which means it likely retains the front lug into which the ejector rod latches. Those shortened to 2" lost the lug in the process, meaning the cylinder locked only at the back. Assuming I bought a converted model at all, I'd much rather have one with the front lockup intact.
4. You say the crown and front sight appear to be factory. Again assuming this is a conversion, this suggests the job was well done.
Without photos I doubt anyone would want to hazard an estimate; even with photos an estimate would only be over a fairly broad range. I will say if I saw it for sale at a gunshop, it would be the grips I'd be most interested in.
Also just one further point, M&P revolvers made for Britain were mostly with 5" barrels, though 4" and 6" barrels are known as well. Roy Jinks says the Victory models made in .38 Special for U.S. sales were mostly made with 4" barrels but some made with 2" barrels and the appropriate-length ejector. I've never seen one, even in photos, but I've read there are some examples owned by collectors.
Cons first:
1. Based on your information it appears there is no collector value. Military collectors want unaltered examples, and in any case U.S. collectors naturally tend to be more interested in revolvers made for and used by U.S. armed forces.
2. M&P revolvers prior to s/n V769000 (about December 1944) had an older style spring-powered hammer block which could on occasion stick and not function as intended. A new more positive hammer block was designed at the request of the U.S. Navy after a sailor was killed when a revolver was dropped onto a steel deck. With the older hammer block I'd only carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.
3. Although it's been done thousands of times I personally wouldn't shoot .38 Specials in one of these converted .38 S&Ws.
Pros:
1. It is an S&W and it is not junk. At the time it was made it was equal in quality and finish to S&W commercial production. Even those made in later years under wartime pressure were every bit as good in terms of steel quality, heat treatment, parts fit and operation, just without the fine polish and blue finish.
2. Checkered grips with the diamond pattern around the grip screw would be correct for the time this was made. They may well be the original grips and as such would have collector value in themselves.
3. You say the barrel length is 2 3/8", which means it likely retains the front lug into which the ejector rod latches. Those shortened to 2" lost the lug in the process, meaning the cylinder locked only at the back. Assuming I bought a converted model at all, I'd much rather have one with the front lockup intact.
4. You say the crown and front sight appear to be factory. Again assuming this is a conversion, this suggests the job was well done.
Without photos I doubt anyone would want to hazard an estimate; even with photos an estimate would only be over a fairly broad range. I will say if I saw it for sale at a gunshop, it would be the grips I'd be most interested in.
Also just one further point, M&P revolvers made for Britain were mostly with 5" barrels, though 4" and 6" barrels are known as well. Roy Jinks says the Victory models made in .38 Special for U.S. sales were mostly made with 4" barrels but some made with 2" barrels and the appropriate-length ejector. I've never seen one, even in photos, but I've read there are some examples owned by collectors.
BrownTrout
New member
Dave - Thanks so much for the information, although I must admit I was hoping it was something rare, rather than a cut piece.
I will get some photos for you. I re-examined the front sight and barrel crown... my goodness they did a good job if it's not factory.
I'll provide photos of the gun (and the GRIPS... might be the best part of this deal). I'll concentrate a few photos on the bbl. end and front sight for your evaluation...
In any case I suppose I can get some repro fake stag grips or something, sell the checkered ones on gunbroker and recoup some cash w/o seriously damaging the collectibility of the gun.
I paid $233 for it... too much?
Edit: the bbl. does NOT retain the lug, (Frownie-face) but there is seriously no evidence that a lug was ground off (pics of this too, to come). Also there is a filled area on the butt where the lanyard ring was... if that means anything.
Double-Edit: since firing .38 Spec. might not be the best idea, can I still shoot .38 S&W in this thing?
I will get some photos for you. I re-examined the front sight and barrel crown... my goodness they did a good job if it's not factory.
I'll provide photos of the gun (and the GRIPS... might be the best part of this deal). I'll concentrate a few photos on the bbl. end and front sight for your evaluation...
In any case I suppose I can get some repro fake stag grips or something, sell the checkered ones on gunbroker and recoup some cash w/o seriously damaging the collectibility of the gun.
I paid $233 for it... too much?
Edit: the bbl. does NOT retain the lug, (Frownie-face) but there is seriously no evidence that a lug was ground off (pics of this too, to come). Also there is a filled area on the butt where the lanyard ring was... if that means anything.
Double-Edit: since firing .38 Spec. might not be the best idea, can I still shoot .38 S&W in this thing?
BrownTrout
New member
Last edited by a moderator:
Dave Anderson
New member
Brown Trout: pictures
Agree, the workmanship on the shortened barrel/front sight was well done. I'm sure it was not done at the S&W factory. The factory would never remove the front lug for the ejector rod. Also I've never seen a front sight like that one on an S&W. However there were other good gunsmiths besides those at S&W.
The grips look correct for the era and are of the style used from 1929-1941. If the left grip panel is as nice as the right-side one the they would certainly be of interest to collectors. A very knowledgeable collector friend estimated $50-75. Considering the good condition, a collector who really wanted them might go even higher.
The revolver most likely had a lanyard loop in the butt at one time; the loop has been removed and the hole filled.
Since you paid $233 for it I don't see you losing any money on the deal. I know collectors who would pay $250 just to get the grips, and would do as you suggest; put a set of non-collectible grips on and resell the revolver.
The issue of shooting .38 Specials in these converted revolvers is debatable. Personally I wouldn't but then I have other revolvers. I know shooters and collectors whose opinions I respect who have no problem with shooting standard (i.e. not +P) .38 Specials in these converted revolvers. Certainly in quality of steel, heat treatment and workmanship they are the same as .38 Special K-frames of the same era.
You'll get different opinions also on shooting .38 S&W cartridges in these converted chambers. Some sources say they work fine, others say accuracy is considerably reduced. Since I've never tried it I can't offer an opinion.
Agree, the workmanship on the shortened barrel/front sight was well done. I'm sure it was not done at the S&W factory. The factory would never remove the front lug for the ejector rod. Also I've never seen a front sight like that one on an S&W. However there were other good gunsmiths besides those at S&W.
The grips look correct for the era and are of the style used from 1929-1941. If the left grip panel is as nice as the right-side one the they would certainly be of interest to collectors. A very knowledgeable collector friend estimated $50-75. Considering the good condition, a collector who really wanted them might go even higher.
The revolver most likely had a lanyard loop in the butt at one time; the loop has been removed and the hole filled.
Since you paid $233 for it I don't see you losing any money on the deal. I know collectors who would pay $250 just to get the grips, and would do as you suggest; put a set of non-collectible grips on and resell the revolver.
The issue of shooting .38 Specials in these converted revolvers is debatable. Personally I wouldn't but then I have other revolvers. I know shooters and collectors whose opinions I respect who have no problem with shooting standard (i.e. not +P) .38 Specials in these converted revolvers. Certainly in quality of steel, heat treatment and workmanship they are the same as .38 Special K-frames of the same era.
You'll get different opinions also on shooting .38 S&W cartridges in these converted chambers. Some sources say they work fine, others say accuracy is considerably reduced. Since I've never tried it I can't offer an opinion.
Ok, first off this is my first post here at the Firing Line. Name is Steve. Active duty military stationed in Idaho. Anyway, on to the question!
I have an old Smith & Wesson round butt with a 4" bbl. It's a nickle plated gun, with the following roll-marked on the top of the barrel:
Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA
Patented Oct 8 1901 Dec 17 1901
Feb 8 (or 6?) 1906 Sept 14 1909 Dec 29 191x (last number unreadable)
Rollmarked on the rt side of the bbl is:
38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
Rollmarked on the left side of bbl is:
SMITH & WESSON
Rollmarked on the bottom of the butt and cylinder is the SN#
303xxx
There are 3 screws on the right sideplate, one at the front of the trigger guard, one on the lower frontstrap and one on the cylinder latch. The barrel is pinned.
Can anyone tell me about this gun? I got it for free years ago. It's probably not worth a darn because there is little plating left on the sideplate and several other spots. I'm just looking for an approx date of manufacture and model.
Thanks for your help! -Steve
I have an old Smith & Wesson round butt with a 4" bbl. It's a nickle plated gun, with the following roll-marked on the top of the barrel:
Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA
Patented Oct 8 1901 Dec 17 1901
Feb 8 (or 6?) 1906 Sept 14 1909 Dec 29 191x (last number unreadable)
Rollmarked on the rt side of the bbl is:
38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
Rollmarked on the left side of bbl is:
SMITH & WESSON
Rollmarked on the bottom of the butt and cylinder is the SN#
303xxx
There are 3 screws on the right sideplate, one at the front of the trigger guard, one on the lower frontstrap and one on the cylinder latch. The barrel is pinned.
Can anyone tell me about this gun? I got it for free years ago. It's probably not worth a darn because there is little plating left on the sideplate and several other spots. I'm just looking for an approx date of manufacture and model.
Thanks for your help! -Steve
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Shoktronic
Inactive
Inherited S&W Model 36
Hi guys. I went all through this thread hoping to find some info on a pistol I inherited. Its stamped a model 36 with a 2" barrel. It has a round butt and what I am assuming are diamond grips (diamond cross cuts and large diamond shap where screw inserts). The serial number has me puzzled. The inside on the grip on the left has 35xxx. Just above it is what looks to be a 9 that is in a sideways orientation. 35xxx is also located just in front of the cylinder with a R stamped below it. On the bottom of the grip is 237xxx.
Any help would be appreciated. Also if anyone knows what kind of loads I can fire out of this safely would also be apprecated.
Hi guys. I went all through this thread hoping to find some info on a pistol I inherited. Its stamped a model 36 with a 2" barrel. It has a round butt and what I am assuming are diamond grips (diamond cross cuts and large diamond shap where screw inserts). The serial number has me puzzled. The inside on the grip on the left has 35xxx. Just above it is what looks to be a 9 that is in a sideways orientation. 35xxx is also located just in front of the cylinder with a R stamped below it. On the bottom of the grip is 237xxx.
Any help would be appreciated. Also if anyone knows what kind of loads I can fire out of this safely would also be apprecated.
Dave Anderson
New member
Shoktronic re Model 36
The number on the bottom of the grip 237XXX is the serial number. The other numbers are assembly/parts numbers. The model was originally called the Chiefs Special and was the first to use the new "J" frame size. S/N 1 was completed on October 24, 1950. When S&W began using model numbers in 1957 the Chiefs Special was assigned model number 36.
I don't have exact year by year dates for the model 36, but can narrow it down a bit. The first of the Chiefs Specials to get the model 36 stamping was s/n 125000 in 1957. S&W made a change in how the mainspring and hammer connect on Sept. 12, 1962 at approximately s/n 295000.
A reasonable estimate for year of production would be 1960. The grips you describe would be correct for the time frame. These compact J-frame revolvers were tremendously popular when first introduced and remain so to this day.
Assuming it is in sound condition it can safely be used with any standard pressure .38 Special ammunition.
The number on the bottom of the grip 237XXX is the serial number. The other numbers are assembly/parts numbers. The model was originally called the Chiefs Special and was the first to use the new "J" frame size. S/N 1 was completed on October 24, 1950. When S&W began using model numbers in 1957 the Chiefs Special was assigned model number 36.
I don't have exact year by year dates for the model 36, but can narrow it down a bit. The first of the Chiefs Specials to get the model 36 stamping was s/n 125000 in 1957. S&W made a change in how the mainspring and hammer connect on Sept. 12, 1962 at approximately s/n 295000.
A reasonable estimate for year of production would be 1960. The grips you describe would be correct for the time frame. These compact J-frame revolvers were tremendously popular when first introduced and remain so to this day.
Assuming it is in sound condition it can safely be used with any standard pressure .38 Special ammunition.