smith and wesson model 10

dnsharpshooter

New member
i just bought a S&W model 10, police trade in from buds gun shop .com.
i was wondering if i bought a .357 mag cylinder for a k frame, would it fit on this gun, and even then would it be safe to use with 357 mag? im still fairly new to revolvers (but have learned TONS from reading on TFL) so please go easy on me. thanks

Daniel
 
why???

The Model 10 is not only a great 38 Special revolver, but a true American classic. Just shoot it, enjoy it, and don't screw it up playing Bubba with it!!!
If you want a 357 Magnum, buy a 357 Magnum.
 
The Model 10 is a great 38spl revolver. You and your Model 10 will be much happier if you don't try to morph it into a 357. ;)
 
No, installing a .357 Magnum cylinder on the gun would not be considered a safe conversion. While they may do so now, S&W did not always heat treat their .38 Special and .357 Magnum frames the same so it is doubtful that your revolver has its frame properly heat treated for .357 Magnum. Your revolver is, however, perfectly fine to shoot .38 Special +P ammunition in if you so desire.

If you really want magnum-type performance from your revolver, the .38 +P ammo from Buffalo Bore is about as close as you can safely get without buying another gun chambered for .357 Magnum.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=22
 
If you ever were able to put a .357 cylinder on it, which you can't and fire it, I can almost guarantee you'll be walking around with a white cane with red tip holding a tin cup. It's a .38, period. Use 148gr. wadcutters for the range and 158gr. semi wads for defense and you'll never have a probam. I know some who carried them for over 20 years without cleaning them and never encountered any problems. They were both stupid and lucky I guess. I never used +P's, so I can't speak to that, but sure they can be used from time to time in those like my model10 heavy barrel from the 60's.

That was one of the finest pistols ever issued to LE, even though I always cursed it like everybody else did for being just a .38 special and only carrying six. I admit that I wouldn't be comfortable issuing it today with all the firepower out there, but it does have it's uses. But I carried that damn thing for almost 20 years in rain and snow. I even carried it on sandy beaches and never had the slightest problem with it even after firing thousands of rounds out of it.

I always cared for my weapons and it's still real clean with some wear that gives it character. I even removed the old grips and stuck on a pr. of buffalo horn and Tyler T-Grip, which I was never allowed to do in uniform. It looks great and I appreciate it more with age. So should you.
 
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why???The Model 10 is not only a great 38 Special revolver, but a true American classic. Just shoot it, enjoy it, and don't screw it up playing Bubba with it!!!
If you want a 357 Magnum, buy a 357 Magnum.

I agree with Cheapshooter: Keep it as it is and enjoy shooting it!
 
thanks thats the answer i was looking for

While .38spl +p is ok in your model 10, a steady diet of it will
certainly accellarate wear. Remember that parts for these guns
are getting scarce. Just from your comments, it sounds like you
should have bought a .357 magnum.
 
Some of the Model 10-6's were chambered in .357 Magnum.

The Model 13 is a .357 Magnum version of the Model 10.

A lot of people make statements about heat treating but no one knows for sure what the standards are. It just makes good internet talk.
 
a reasoned response

WOW.

The frames are the same between the modern K frame 38 and K frame 357 models. (A modern frame is considered one that is marked with a model or model and dash number). The major difference is the size of the cylinder and how far back into the frame the barrel is fit. The model 15/10 barrel sticks back farther in towards the cylinder face than the model 19. The fitting of 357 mag cylinders requires the removal of the barrel, yoke assembly, new hand, stop bolt and some other pieces parts. This modification has been done a lot in the past without devastating results. The most notable being Jim Cirillo's Model 10 that he used on the NYPD Stake Out squad. He had a bull barrel put on his Model 10 and a 357 cylinder added at the same time. (He did love to tinker with his guns - see his Smith and Dan conversions).

The modification that would NOT be considered safe was when people tried to ream the 38 Special cylinder to 357 length. The issue of strength and heat treating comes up here usually - with no authoritative citations from Smith and Wesson - and is always considered a bad idea.

A gunsmith can make the modification you are asking about. But, now days no one will do it due to the liability of you stuffing a monster 357 reload into your converted model 10 and blasting the gun to flinders. Of course your lawyer is going to come back on the guy that converted the gun, not the sweet genius that reloaded the 357 mag case stuffed full of Bullseye.

So in answer to your theoretical question yes. But, for all practical purposes no.
 
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A lot of people make statements about heat treating but no one knows for sure what the standards are. It just makes good internet talk.

All the more reason to advise against such a conversion. Setting off a 35,000psi small explosion inches from your hand with a gun that may or may not have adequate heat treating doesn't sound wise to me.

The frames are the same between the modern K frame 38 and K frame 357 models. (A modern frame is considered one that is marked with a model or model and dash number). The major difference is the size of the cylinder and how far back into the frame the barrel is fit. The model 15/10 barrel sticks back farther in towards the cylinder face than the model 19. The fitting of 357 mag cylinders requires the removal of the barrel, yoke assembly, new hand, stop bolt and some other pieces parts. This modification has been done a lot in the past without devastating results. The most notable being Jim Cirillo's Model 10 that he used on the NYPD Stake Out squad. He had a bull barrel put on his Model 10 and a 357 cylinder added at the same time. (He did love to tinker with his guns - see his Smith and Dan conversions).

The problem is that not all K-Frames are created equal. We know for a fact that older K-Frames were not as strong as later ones. For example, the .38-44 cartridge was deemed to be suitable only for N-Frames and far too much for the .38 M&P, yet several years later S&W was making the Combat Magnum in .357 Magnum which is far more abusive to a gun that the .38-44. Likewise, S&W specifically says that pre-1958 K-Frames should not be used with .38 Special +P ammunition, even though they were building Combat Magnums before that date, which also points to the fact that not all K-Frames are equal in strength.

Now, while the OP's gun is obviously new enough to be suitable for +P ammo and was produced concurrently with .357 Magnum K-Frames (we know this because it has a model number), we have no way of knowing when in the nearly 60 year timespan it was produced (the OP has provided neither a serial number nor dash number), nor how it was heat-treated even if we did know the vintage (S&W is rather tight-lipped on the matter). As such, we have no way of knowing whether or not said revolver would be able to withstand a .357 Magnum conversion or not. While the use of a proper cylinder might prevent a catastrophic failure, frame stretching and excessive flame-cutting of the topstrap are still very real possibilities.

The only way to know definitively would be to call S&W and, after providing the serial number, model number, and dash number of the revolver in question, ask their opinion on the matter. I very much suspect that S&W will not give the OK for such a conversion, however, and with so much unknown information we cannot reccommend such a conversion as safe.
 
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Jglsprings, unfortunately I wasn't in the NYPD stakeout squad and wish I was, but ran into a couple of them while at court on different occassions. You have to take what people write in their books with a grain of salt. Even Cirillo, who I never met did tend to over dramatize different instances in his book to spice things up. This I'm sure of, cause I knew a couple of cops who also wrote books. Everyone has to do this when they write a book for sales. Their publisher sees to that.

I personally find it hard to believe that the dept would allow him to alter a service revolver in that fashion when plenty of other .357's were readily available. As far as him placing a bull barrel on it, I think you may be mistaken, cause my model 10 issued in '68 had the heavy barrel and that might be what you're thinking of. I'm just saying it's a possibility. I have seen some shotguns altered in the Emergency Service Squad, but converting calibers isn't like doing an action job. NYC has always put lawsuits first and I don't think any individual is so important as to allow a conversion like that. If he would've injured himself he could've sued the crap out of the city. I may be wrong on this, but I've seen and heard plenty and don't think so.

In the early 70's one of the few dirtbag survivors in an attempted liquor store holdup was testifying in a Brooklyn court. When asked by his attorney what was yelled out to him by the squad just before he was shot he answered "Merry Xmas mother @%#*er". They were disbanded shortly thereafter. Wasn't that just lovely? I'm amazed the city let them exist as long as they did. Those guys were the very best. At least their accomplishments could be verified with a simple body count.
 
I had also bought two S&W M10s from Buds' and both were M10-10. I reload and wouldn't be afraid to use some very stout loads.

As it was stated earlier, the shorter cylinder of the .38 Special is compensated by the barrel fitted farther into the frame. The following photos demonstrate the difference.

M10 in .38 Special

M10after.jpg


M65 in .357

SW65.jpg
 
So much to read, but I think it would be very hard to even get a .357 cylinder, let alone find somebody to install it, and after all the money and time it would take. Of course it could be modified to take .357 shells, but why?
 
@gunsmokeTPF

Let me quote Jim Cirillo in his book Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights; Paladin Press, Copyright Jim Cirillo 1996

"...After engaging in several firefights as a member of the NYCPD Stakeout
Squad, I opted to use a weapon that allowed a greater application of power
than the standard police .38 Special. At that time, a 158-grain round-nose
lead police load only achieved 747 feet per second (fps) out of a 4-inch
barrel. Even accurate heart shots were not instant stoppers. These poor
results gave birth to two of my hybrids. I refitted a Model 10 .38 frame
with a Model 19 .357 cylinder and a 4-inch Douglas barrel. I then fitted a
Bo-Mar rib over the barrel. This hybrid allowed me to shoot accurately and
fast with close to .357 power. ..."(p 11)​

I would recommend that anyone who is interested in the validity of the above statements to read this book and also his other book Jim Cirillo's Tales Of The Stakeout Squad, Paladin Press. Every individual can make up their own minds as to whether Jim was lying or not. Other authors, Massad Ayoob and Jeff Cooper have vouched for his authenticity so each and every reader can make up his own mind.

To the point at hand, a conversion of a Model 10 to a 357 is mechanically possible.

gunsmokeTPF
NYC has always put lawsuits first and I don't think any individual is so important as to allow a conversion like that. If he would've injured himself he could've sued the crap out of the city. I may be wrong on this, but I've seen and heard plenty and don't think so.

And I believe that I generally agreed with you when I said:

jglsprings
A gunsmith can make the modification you are asking about. But, now days no one will do it due to the liability of you stuffing a monster 357 reload into your converted model 10 and blasting the gun to flinders. Of course your lawyer is going to come back on the guy that converted the gun, not the sweet genius that reloaded the 357 mag case stuffed full of Bullseye.

But, in my opinion Cirillo did make the modification to the weapon.

@Webleymkv
Webleymkv
however, and with so much unknown information we cannot reccommend such a conversion as safe.

Where in the entire thread did anyone recommend the conversion?

jglsprings
So in answer to your theoretical question yes. But, for all practical purposes no.

The entire thread went straight into "how stupid" and "you'll shoot your eye out kid".
 
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