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Smith and Wesson laying off 3000 emplyees!
- Thread starter JMack
- Start date
Please don't get me wrong, I supported the boycott.I Just don't trust the Clinton government in anything. Why do you think he's called Slick Willy. How do you think it feels living in a State where Hillary is running for election. We already have Schumer. Anything they do is suspect.
Yea, it sure is working.
I've ignored this type of thread on a few other boards but I can be quiet no longer.
American shooters and gun owners have helped Bill Clinton, who they claim to dislike so very much, put other Americans, shooters and gun owners out of a job because a British toilet bowl company elected to make a pact with Clinton/Gore!
Those 125 people are most likely wondering how they are going to feed their families, pay their mortgages and put clothes on their backs.
These people shouldn't be punished for what their bosses did.
Yea, it sure is working.
I only wish that you could personally meet a couple of these S&W x-employees and tell them face to face how proud you are that you put them out of work!
On Nov. 7th you may as well vote for Gore because you sure did back him in this one.
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Jim - NRA Life Member
"The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others"
www.geocities.com/jimc_07874/home.html
I've ignored this type of thread on a few other boards but I can be quiet no longer.
American shooters and gun owners have helped Bill Clinton, who they claim to dislike so very much, put other Americans, shooters and gun owners out of a job because a British toilet bowl company elected to make a pact with Clinton/Gore!
Those 125 people are most likely wondering how they are going to feed their families, pay their mortgages and put clothes on their backs.
These people shouldn't be punished for what their bosses did.
Yea, it sure is working.
I only wish that you could personally meet a couple of these S&W x-employees and tell them face to face how proud you are that you put them out of work!
On Nov. 7th you may as well vote for Gore because you sure did back him in this one.
------------------
Jim - NRA Life Member
"The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others"
www.geocities.com/jimc_07874/home.html
Mike Irwin
Staff
JMC,
As others have pointed out here, S&Ws problems are of their OWN making. They attempted to find an easy way out in exchange for certain promises that they thought would replace lost civilian sales (with Government contracts).
Guess what. They were WRONG. The provision that supposedly shields them from lawsuits isn't working (they're still facing most of the lawsuits that have been filed), and the preferential treatment from the government went down in flames in Congress, as well.
It would also appear to me that S&W's legal counsel really F***ED UP because they didn't craft in any "out" clauses for the government's failure to deliver.
Yes, their employees are at the short end of the stick, but you know what? That's what being an employee means at times, as harsh as that sounds. Lord knows I've been in that position once or twice.
And, to your other point, that the government won...
How? The government loses, actually, in that no other manufacturer is likely to accept this kind of deal and it's "benefits."
By gunowners making a very pointed example of Smith & Wesson with a spontaneous boycott, yes, we may well lose Smith & Wesson.
But we have hopefully gained the rest of the manufacturers. How likely will they be to sign a "corporate soul-removal" document given the following:
1. Government promises regarding lawsuits are worthless.
2. Government promises regarding preferential contract treatment are worthless.
3. The potential for a spontaneous boycott is extreme.
If Smith & Wesson folds, I consider it to be a tragic, but perfectly acceptable, casualty.
With Sig, Ruger, Walther (hopefully they'll get free of the marketing contract with S&W), Beretta, Taurus, Rossi, and the other firearms manufacturers KNOWING what the consequences are, they'll be even more determined to resist this kind of Governmental blackmail.
If you haven't read the provisions of the agreement, I suggest that you do so. To put it mildly, it was extreme, and very likely unConstitutional in that it placed extreme commercial restrictions not only on S&W, but also S&W's dealers all through the chain.
Those S&W dealers are independent contractors. There's another point where S&W's legal team failed. If they didn't see the potential for losing most of their independent contractors, what were they really worth?
Perhaps some people are willing to accept the government pissing on them, being told that it's rain, and then begging for more. I'm not one of those people, thought, and that's why I won't buy a Smith & Wesson product made after January 1, 2000. I don't like the smell of stale urine, or cowardice.
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
As others have pointed out here, S&Ws problems are of their OWN making. They attempted to find an easy way out in exchange for certain promises that they thought would replace lost civilian sales (with Government contracts).
Guess what. They were WRONG. The provision that supposedly shields them from lawsuits isn't working (they're still facing most of the lawsuits that have been filed), and the preferential treatment from the government went down in flames in Congress, as well.
It would also appear to me that S&W's legal counsel really F***ED UP because they didn't craft in any "out" clauses for the government's failure to deliver.
Yes, their employees are at the short end of the stick, but you know what? That's what being an employee means at times, as harsh as that sounds. Lord knows I've been in that position once or twice.
And, to your other point, that the government won...
How? The government loses, actually, in that no other manufacturer is likely to accept this kind of deal and it's "benefits."
By gunowners making a very pointed example of Smith & Wesson with a spontaneous boycott, yes, we may well lose Smith & Wesson.
But we have hopefully gained the rest of the manufacturers. How likely will they be to sign a "corporate soul-removal" document given the following:
1. Government promises regarding lawsuits are worthless.
2. Government promises regarding preferential contract treatment are worthless.
3. The potential for a spontaneous boycott is extreme.
If Smith & Wesson folds, I consider it to be a tragic, but perfectly acceptable, casualty.
With Sig, Ruger, Walther (hopefully they'll get free of the marketing contract with S&W), Beretta, Taurus, Rossi, and the other firearms manufacturers KNOWING what the consequences are, they'll be even more determined to resist this kind of Governmental blackmail.
If you haven't read the provisions of the agreement, I suggest that you do so. To put it mildly, it was extreme, and very likely unConstitutional in that it placed extreme commercial restrictions not only on S&W, but also S&W's dealers all through the chain.
Those S&W dealers are independent contractors. There's another point where S&W's legal team failed. If they didn't see the potential for losing most of their independent contractors, what were they really worth?
Perhaps some people are willing to accept the government pissing on them, being told that it's rain, and then begging for more. I'm not one of those people, thought, and that's why I won't buy a Smith & Wesson product made after January 1, 2000. I don't like the smell of stale urine, or cowardice.
------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
We were just talking about this over at GlockTalk. Rather than type it again, here's my take:
There are no big winners here:
*&*'s British owners want to sell the company desperately, and have for some time now. Standard business thinking is that a company with lawsuits pending against it is unsaleable. Presented with what they saw as a simple way to get out from under pending litigation, they signed, totally unprepared for the savage consumer backlash against a company that "sold out". Now they're left holding an asset not worth a bucket of warm spit, that still has lawsuits pending against it plus sales figures that compare unfavorably to your kid sister's lemonade stand. They lose.
The employees of *&*, just a year ago proud to work at an American icon, have to watch in horror as the bridge crew steers the corporate ship right onto a reef, piously defending their navigational choices to all who'll listen, while half the crew gets shoved overboard and the rest can barely keep the ship afloat. They lose.
American gunowners (and gun dealers) have to watch a company we have trusted and loved for generations make, from our point of view, a self-serving agreement to stay in business, our rights (the consumer's rights, the customer's rights!) be damned. We can condone this action and we can encourage the government to strong-arm other gun makers and we can spit on the other gunmakers for the potentially costly decision to hold the line by our continued support of *&*, or we can deprive ourselves of the guns and the company we love by withholding our fiscal approval. We lose.
Other gunmakers, by holding fast, still face costly lawsuits, and may be deprived of valuable contracts for their reward. They lose.
The (in)justice department and HUD find out they can't endrun the legislative process with their cleverly worded 'agreement' because no other gunmaker, all principles aside, wants to follow *&* into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, one after another of their lawsuits gets tossed for being the tripe it is. They lose.
This is war. In war, there frequently aren't any 'winners' per se, just those left standing when the shooting stops. *&* was our comrade, they got bushwhacked and tortured into giving away our positions, so to speak. They may only be the first casualty. God willing, freedom-loving Americans will be the side left standing when all is said and done...
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 21, 2000).]
There are no big winners here:
*&*'s British owners want to sell the company desperately, and have for some time now. Standard business thinking is that a company with lawsuits pending against it is unsaleable. Presented with what they saw as a simple way to get out from under pending litigation, they signed, totally unprepared for the savage consumer backlash against a company that "sold out". Now they're left holding an asset not worth a bucket of warm spit, that still has lawsuits pending against it plus sales figures that compare unfavorably to your kid sister's lemonade stand. They lose.
The employees of *&*, just a year ago proud to work at an American icon, have to watch in horror as the bridge crew steers the corporate ship right onto a reef, piously defending their navigational choices to all who'll listen, while half the crew gets shoved overboard and the rest can barely keep the ship afloat. They lose.
American gunowners (and gun dealers) have to watch a company we have trusted and loved for generations make, from our point of view, a self-serving agreement to stay in business, our rights (the consumer's rights, the customer's rights!) be damned. We can condone this action and we can encourage the government to strong-arm other gun makers and we can spit on the other gunmakers for the potentially costly decision to hold the line by our continued support of *&*, or we can deprive ourselves of the guns and the company we love by withholding our fiscal approval. We lose.
Other gunmakers, by holding fast, still face costly lawsuits, and may be deprived of valuable contracts for their reward. They lose.
The (in)justice department and HUD find out they can't endrun the legislative process with their cleverly worded 'agreement' because no other gunmaker, all principles aside, wants to follow *&* into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, one after another of their lawsuits gets tossed for being the tripe it is. They lose.
This is war. In war, there frequently aren't any 'winners' per se, just those left standing when the shooting stops. *&* was our comrade, they got bushwhacked and tortured into giving away our positions, so to speak. They may only be the first casualty. God willing, freedom-loving Americans will be the side left standing when all is said and done...
------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 21, 2000).]
Ladies and gentlemen. We are in a war. A war to preserve, not only our right to "keep and bear arms," but all of our precious freedoms. How long do you think that government will allow us to discuss the subjects we do on TFL, or any other forun, in the RKBA is shot down? (No pun intended)
OK. S&W is the first casualty in this war. Who's next? Hopefully Gore, Hillary, and all the other anti's that wish to disarm the American people.
We have to fight with our votes, our support monetarily of candidates on our side, work in their campaigns. Support as many pro-gun organizations as we can possibly afford.
The American gun owner has to get off his dead complacent ass and do it. Not just those of us on TFL, but all gun owners. I get a bit tired of hearing, "They'll never take our guns." All I can say to that is, "Wanna bet?"
Paul B.
OK. S&W is the first casualty in this war. Who's next? Hopefully Gore, Hillary, and all the other anti's that wish to disarm the American people.
We have to fight with our votes, our support monetarily of candidates on our side, work in their campaigns. Support as many pro-gun organizations as we can possibly afford.
The American gun owner has to get off his dead complacent ass and do it. Not just those of us on TFL, but all gun owners. I get a bit tired of hearing, "They'll never take our guns." All I can say to that is, "Wanna bet?"
Paul B.
I really feel sorry for the employee's who have been laid off, especially with Christmas just around the corner. BUT!!! The CEO of the company made an extremely bad business decision and they are now suffering the consequences, for his treasonous act. I have not and will not purchase any new Smith $ Wesson products. I went to a large gun show this past weekend and new S$W products were very scarce. I overheard several gun owners saying that, its about time that the shooting fraternity stood together on an issue. I whole heartedly agree with this statement. The boycott lives and we are winning.
7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
Maybe the next step is for another anti-gun international corporation to buy and deal away another firearms manufacturer.
I wonder if public reaction to the S&W/Gov't deal was sufficiently "predictable" such that we were set-up to destroy that which we hold most revered? Or is that giving the business world too much credit for planning strategy?
I wonder if public reaction to the S&W/Gov't deal was sufficiently "predictable" such that we were set-up to destroy that which we hold most revered? Or is that giving the business world too much credit for planning strategy?
Gun Show at Civic Center in Birmingham (AL) had very few new production S&W guns. Maybe this indicates a production shut down.
Gunowners are quickly becoming an economic force in the market place with successes against Rosie-K-Mart, and now against S&W, all of which was largely an unorganized effort. With the exception of a few gun magazine writers (which have a conflict of intere$t), gunowners have formed a unified front against S&W and their deal with the Devil.
As a collector of S&W revolvers, I find this whole situation to be very sad, BUT S&W must pay the ultimate penalty for their SELL-OUT. S&W must die!
[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Gunowners are quickly becoming an economic force in the market place with successes against Rosie-K-Mart, and now against S&W, all of which was largely an unorganized effort. With the exception of a few gun magazine writers (which have a conflict of intere$t), gunowners have formed a unified front against S&W and their deal with the Devil.
As a collector of S&W revolvers, I find this whole situation to be very sad, BUT S&W must pay the ultimate penalty for their SELL-OUT. S&W must die!
[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Gopher a 45
New member
Double post...
[This message has been edited by Gopher a 45 (edited October 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gopher a 45 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Gopher a 45
New member
I've spoken with half a dozen gun dealers since this situation came about, several of them *&* master dealers, and not one of them will abide by the conditions of the "contract" crammed down our throats by the Clintoons. A few had some new *&*s, but they were all pre-existing inventory (which apparently wasn't flying off the shelves). Keep it up, folks.
Essentially, we're getting to the last chapter of Old Yeller as far as *&* goes. When a previously loyal and trusted friend sinks its teeth into you when your back is turned due to a crippling, incurable brain disorder, you know what you have to do, even if you don't like it...
Essentially, we're getting to the last chapter of Old Yeller as far as *&* goes. When a previously loyal and trusted friend sinks its teeth into you when your back is turned due to a crippling, incurable brain disorder, you know what you have to do, even if you don't like it...
The part that makes me mad is the media is saying the NRA is boycotting S&W. Sure most of us boycotting are NRA members, but not all. And while the NRA supports the boycott, they are not leading it.
This boycott is being caried out by thousands of individual gun owners. We each made up our own mind on the issue. We aren't just blindly following the NRA as the media would like people to believe.
It P.O.s me to see the media try to blacken the NRA's eyes by twisting the facts. But, in their view, its much easier to blame a known organization than to admit that a large group of people are thinking for themselves.
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Since light travels faster than sound, isn't it logical that some people appear bright until you hear them speak?
This boycott is being caried out by thousands of individual gun owners. We each made up our own mind on the issue. We aren't just blindly following the NRA as the media would like people to believe.
It P.O.s me to see the media try to blacken the NRA's eyes by twisting the facts. But, in their view, its much easier to blame a known organization than to admit that a large group of people are thinking for themselves.
------------------
Since light travels faster than sound, isn't it logical that some people appear bright until you hear them speak?
I sure hope that EVERY other company, gun related or not, sees what can happen when they get into an agreement like this with the government. Where is the government now? They will not lift one finger to bail out s&w. Your opinions as to why this will not happen can be many and varied.
I'll bet the s&w execs are wondering where "the government" is now. Where is the "protection" (either expressed of implied) they promised? "We (s&w) helped them so why aren't they helping us?"
This is what happens when you "cut a deal" with the gun grabbing, Constitution hating democrats.
lesson learned.
NRA Life Member
SAF
CRPA
VHA
I'll bet the s&w execs are wondering where "the government" is now. Where is the "protection" (either expressed of implied) they promised? "We (s&w) helped them so why aren't they helping us?"
This is what happens when you "cut a deal" with the gun grabbing, Constitution hating democrats.
lesson learned.
NRA Life Member
SAF
CRPA
VHA
stuckatwork
New member
My heart goes out to the workers at S&W. They are victims in this tawdry gam that the management and governemt played. Why didn't the S&W administration do like Glock and Beretta? These companies said up front that they would fight ANY law suite presented against their companies with ALL THE RESOURCES at thier disposal. They were no soft target and get passed up.
It is too bad that an American icon may fall to the wayside. If it was possible, maybe the employees could buy the comapny and get it back on track.
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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
It is too bad that an American icon may fall to the wayside. If it was possible, maybe the employees could buy the comapny and get it back on track.
------------------
You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.