Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
A very easy way is just to go to Genitron and compare.
Genitron
https://www.genitron.com/My-Handgun-List
Genitron
https://www.genitron.com/My-Handgun-List
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Smallest 9mm Pistols?
- Thread starter lawndoctor1
- Start date
chris in va
New member
Thread resurrection from 2017...
But anyway, I just bought a Sig P365 after renting about ten small 9's. I wanted something similar to the Kahr K9 I had as I have fairly large hands, and it fits perfectly. I'm very impressed with how comfortable it is to shoot, hardly much difference between it and my CZ P01. Double stack width grip, single stack slide. Really enjoyable.
But anyway, I just bought a Sig P365 after renting about ten small 9's. I wanted something similar to the Kahr K9 I had as I have fairly large hands, and it fits perfectly. I'm very impressed with how comfortable it is to shoot, hardly much difference between it and my CZ P01. Double stack width grip, single stack slide. Really enjoyable.
I had a Kel-Tec P-11. It was reliable, but the trigger was dreadful. After I shot my Glock 43 for the first time, I knew that the Kel-Tec was trade bait. I also had a Ruger LC9 that I eventually didn't like the trigger of, though I've heard that the LC9s has a much better trigger.
I like my G43 so much that I bought a G26 just to keep it company.
I like my G43 so much that I bought a G26 just to keep it company.
AmmunitionDepot
New member
The Sig 938 is what comes to mind for me. These are great guns that feel good in the hand.
wild cat mccane
New member
DB9 is the smallest.
Here is my LCP stacked on top of my DB9.
However, I do not feel the DB9 is a good gun.
DB9 is about the exact same size as the LCP, just a tad longer:
https://imgur.com/KvF7Yqw
The Kahr Pm9/CM9 is huge compared to the DB9/LCP:
Here is my LCP stacked on top of my DB9.
However, I do not feel the DB9 is a good gun.
DB9 is about the exact same size as the LCP, just a tad longer:
https://imgur.com/KvF7Yqw
The Kahr Pm9/CM9 is huge compared to the DB9/LCP:
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
As a Nano fanboy, I am totally happy in all areas. Shot the LC9S for many years. A great gun. Spent a long time looking for a new Micro. And OAL was important. Yes, the Kahr is a tad smaller but he recoil was very much more pronounced. And I ran the LC9S head to head with my Ruger and hands down the Nano out performed it. Most especially in recoil and muzzle flip.
The smallest I own is my AMT DAO Backup in 9 mm. Even though I have more modern and lightweight pistols, I still carry it from time to time: reliable, corrosion-resistant, small, and no external controls or hard edges to snag on anything. Heavy for the size, but that helps mitigate the recoil.
Both my Shield and G43 can be carried in a front pocket and both are reliable and very shootable. The only possibly superior piece is the P365, which I will probably get at some point. No rush, since the Shield and G43 are so good.
I have found the Kel-tecs to be poorly made and not good shooters, with excessive recoil and poor triggers (P11) and lots of muzzle flip (PF9).
I have never owned a Kahr that wasn’t finicky at best.
My two LC9s Rugers had nice triggers and were accurate and definitely pocketable, but have sharper recoil than the Shield, G43 and P365. My first LC9s wasn’t reliable (see Galloway Precision’s note regarding Ruger’s bad recoil system design), and I discovered my second one would pop its mag if fired left-handed. Gone.
The Nano shoots OK, but has a short grip and my impression is that it is too fat and heavy for the front pocket. Around 18 ounces unloaded is the limit, in my experience.
(Actually checking the stats Nano may not be too heavy. Still kind of thick though.)
I have found the Kel-tecs to be poorly made and not good shooters, with excessive recoil and poor triggers (P11) and lots of muzzle flip (PF9).
I have never owned a Kahr that wasn’t finicky at best.
My two LC9s Rugers had nice triggers and were accurate and definitely pocketable, but have sharper recoil than the Shield, G43 and P365. My first LC9s wasn’t reliable (see Galloway Precision’s note regarding Ruger’s bad recoil system design), and I discovered my second one would pop its mag if fired left-handed. Gone.
The Nano shoots OK, but has a short grip and my impression is that it is too fat and heavy for the front pocket. Around 18 ounces unloaded is the limit, in my experience.
(Actually checking the stats Nano may not be too heavy. Still kind of thick though.)
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If I was going to get a micro 9mm, I would probably get the Springfield XD-S. That is a WAG, but it looks like it would be the easiest to hold onto, with the deep checkered grip.
It costs about $400 right now, so I guess it is not the cheapest gun there is. But it looks like a pretty good one.
It costs about $400 right now, so I guess it is not the cheapest gun there is. But it looks like a pretty good one.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Mosin posted
"Both my Shield and G43 can be carried in a front pocket and both are reliable and very shootable. The only possibly superior piece is the P365, which I will probably get at some point. No rush, since the Shield and G43 are so good.
I have found the Kel-tecs to be poorly made and not good shooters, with excessive recoil and poor triggers (P11) and lots of muzzle flip (PF9).
I have never owned a Kahr that wasn’t finicky at best.
My two LC9s Rugers had nice triggers and were accurate and definitely pocketable, but have sharper recoil than the Shield, G43 and P365. My first LC9s wasn’t reliable (see Galloway Precision’s note regarding Ruger’s bad recoil system design), and I discovered my second one would pop its mag if fired left-handed. Gone."
The Nano shoots OK, but has a short grip and my impression is that it is too fat and heavy for the front pocket. Around 18 ounces unloaded is the limit, in my experience.
(Actually checking the stats Nano may not be too heavy. Still kind of thick though.)
I have no idea where you are getting your stats. The Nano and the LC9S have the same thickness of .90. The Shield is thicker at .095. The OAL of the Nano is 5.6 the Shield is 6.1".
I have ran so many rounds out of the LC9S practically wore the gun out. A very reliable gun. You mention that Gallaway talking about the recoil system design because of failures, well that was changed shortly after it cam out and Ruger changed the recoil spring to a captive design and they ran great. You say 18oz. is your limilt. Come on, the Shield is 20.8oz according to their website and the Nano is 19.8oz,The extra weight of the Nano is in the barrel and receiver and the trade off is a extremely soft recoil and less muzzle jump.
I do not carry any Micro 9mm in my pocket. Personally I will use a pocket gun for that. But the Nano will fit better than the Shield if that is something I am going to do.
The Sig 365 is a very nice gun. My club members ran a thousand rounds through the gun and compared it to others. While a nice gun, it is NOT PERFECT for every shooter. The Grip to receiver length was too small for a number of us. Riding the slide was something we had to watch out for. Might be perfect for someone with a small hand, but it is tight for others.
By the way, I have detailed pic of the different parts and weights on these guns. Too many too post here.
Folks need to try all guns and find the best gun for their individual needs. If the Sheild and the Glock fit you and you love the guns, then that is great. But just trying to help others get the stats right.
You say you can fit the Shield better in your pocket, even though the Shield is actually wider and longer and heavier? Well ok, if you say so.
"Both my Shield and G43 can be carried in a front pocket and both are reliable and very shootable. The only possibly superior piece is the P365, which I will probably get at some point. No rush, since the Shield and G43 are so good.
I have found the Kel-tecs to be poorly made and not good shooters, with excessive recoil and poor triggers (P11) and lots of muzzle flip (PF9).
I have never owned a Kahr that wasn’t finicky at best.
My two LC9s Rugers had nice triggers and were accurate and definitely pocketable, but have sharper recoil than the Shield, G43 and P365. My first LC9s wasn’t reliable (see Galloway Precision’s note regarding Ruger’s bad recoil system design), and I discovered my second one would pop its mag if fired left-handed. Gone."
The Nano shoots OK, but has a short grip and my impression is that it is too fat and heavy for the front pocket. Around 18 ounces unloaded is the limit, in my experience.
(Actually checking the stats Nano may not be too heavy. Still kind of thick though.)
I have no idea where you are getting your stats. The Nano and the LC9S have the same thickness of .90. The Shield is thicker at .095. The OAL of the Nano is 5.6 the Shield is 6.1".
I have ran so many rounds out of the LC9S practically wore the gun out. A very reliable gun. You mention that Gallaway talking about the recoil system design because of failures, well that was changed shortly after it cam out and Ruger changed the recoil spring to a captive design and they ran great. You say 18oz. is your limilt. Come on, the Shield is 20.8oz according to their website and the Nano is 19.8oz,The extra weight of the Nano is in the barrel and receiver and the trade off is a extremely soft recoil and less muzzle jump.
I do not carry any Micro 9mm in my pocket. Personally I will use a pocket gun for that. But the Nano will fit better than the Shield if that is something I am going to do.
The Sig 365 is a very nice gun. My club members ran a thousand rounds through the gun and compared it to others. While a nice gun, it is NOT PERFECT for every shooter. The Grip to receiver length was too small for a number of us. Riding the slide was something we had to watch out for. Might be perfect for someone with a small hand, but it is tight for others.
By the way, I have detailed pic of the different parts and weights on these guns. Too many too post here.
Folks need to try all guns and find the best gun for their individual needs. If the Sheild and the Glock fit you and you love the guns, then that is great. But just trying to help others get the stats right.
You say you can fit the Shield better in your pocket, even though the Shield is actually wider and longer and heavier? Well ok, if you say so.
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TruthTellers
New member
You asked for it: Downsizer WSP
For my own use (and occasionally for my wife), we own both a Sig P290 in 9mm, and a S&W Bodyguard380. Of the two, only the S&W is truly a pocket gun. The P290 is just too heavy for anything short of a winter weight parka in my opinion.
The Sig P290, with tritium night sights sports a long revolver type trigger pull that will annoy some shooters without a grounding in revolver use. Both my wife and I are long time wheel gun shooters so this was no real detriment, however. Too, I find that with any handgun that short and compact, I don't really want a light trigger. The gun's an up-close, inside 10 yards, attack stopper in my book, and an overly light trigger has no place in that scenario. This Sig offering is a 9mm, and with good modern defensive ammunition, it makes a great carry gun for civilian use.
Reliability: good after I got Sig to correct the gun's FTF due to light firing pin falls...and BTW, I did not get them to install the 2nd strike trigger when the work was done (on their dime I might add). For any stoppage, I've been trained to immediately go to the stoppage malfunction drill appropriate to the circumstances. Wasting time on a 2nd trigger pull is not part of the process. YMMV however.
Accuracy: once one gets used to the long trigger, has been excellent...I get less than 2" groups from the ten yard line with any ammunition that I've used. Weight is another matter...while it's really a big help controlling a full house 9mm with 124 gr. SD ammunition, it makes this finely built pistol a holster only proposition for me.
For day to day carry, I don't like IWB holsters for all the usual reasons, but do find that an appropriately sized OWB works quite well and is virtually undetectable when worn behind the hip bone (4 o'clock position). With six rounds in the magazine, one up the pipe, and another 8 rounder in a pocket, I'm pretty well-armed for close in encounters.
The S&W Bodyguard380, (in .380 ACP!) is truly a pocket carry gun. Both my wife, and DIL carry one in their purse, but rarely on the belt or in a pocket. Both use Galco (I think) pocket protector type holsters for purse carry. The gun's integral laser is virtually useless, but does help with new-shooter training in trigger control. Its location, forward of the trigger guard makes it all but impossible to use at any realistic speed.
While the weight is down where it needs to be, for a pocket/purse carry gun, and recoil recovery is not a problem, the caliber leaves something to be desired, even with boutique SD ammunition. My wife and DIL will carry it, usually without objections, excuses, the usual BS, where they won't tote the heavier Sig, or any other more substantial caliber. To be truthful, the recoil of a full house 9mm puts them off somewhat from a truly pocket weight pistol.
The trigger pull on our S&W, was fine right out of the box, and has remained so and I've not had a single malfunction that I can recall with roughly 1000 rounds through the gun. Accuracy is around 2" at 7-10 yds. Plenty accurate for defensive use...and that's from a Weaver Stance...not rested. All in all, it's a good gun for the use intended & method of carry.
HTH's Rod
The Sig P290, with tritium night sights sports a long revolver type trigger pull that will annoy some shooters without a grounding in revolver use. Both my wife and I are long time wheel gun shooters so this was no real detriment, however. Too, I find that with any handgun that short and compact, I don't really want a light trigger. The gun's an up-close, inside 10 yards, attack stopper in my book, and an overly light trigger has no place in that scenario. This Sig offering is a 9mm, and with good modern defensive ammunition, it makes a great carry gun for civilian use.
Reliability: good after I got Sig to correct the gun's FTF due to light firing pin falls...and BTW, I did not get them to install the 2nd strike trigger when the work was done (on their dime I might add). For any stoppage, I've been trained to immediately go to the stoppage malfunction drill appropriate to the circumstances. Wasting time on a 2nd trigger pull is not part of the process. YMMV however.
Accuracy: once one gets used to the long trigger, has been excellent...I get less than 2" groups from the ten yard line with any ammunition that I've used. Weight is another matter...while it's really a big help controlling a full house 9mm with 124 gr. SD ammunition, it makes this finely built pistol a holster only proposition for me.
For day to day carry, I don't like IWB holsters for all the usual reasons, but do find that an appropriately sized OWB works quite well and is virtually undetectable when worn behind the hip bone (4 o'clock position). With six rounds in the magazine, one up the pipe, and another 8 rounder in a pocket, I'm pretty well-armed for close in encounters.
The S&W Bodyguard380, (in .380 ACP!) is truly a pocket carry gun. Both my wife, and DIL carry one in their purse, but rarely on the belt or in a pocket. Both use Galco (I think) pocket protector type holsters for purse carry. The gun's integral laser is virtually useless, but does help with new-shooter training in trigger control. Its location, forward of the trigger guard makes it all but impossible to use at any realistic speed.
While the weight is down where it needs to be, for a pocket/purse carry gun, and recoil recovery is not a problem, the caliber leaves something to be desired, even with boutique SD ammunition. My wife and DIL will carry it, usually without objections, excuses, the usual BS, where they won't tote the heavier Sig, or any other more substantial caliber. To be truthful, the recoil of a full house 9mm puts them off somewhat from a truly pocket weight pistol.
The trigger pull on our S&W, was fine right out of the box, and has remained so and I've not had a single malfunction that I can recall with roughly 1000 rounds through the gun. Accuracy is around 2" at 7-10 yds. Plenty accurate for defensive use...and that's from a Weaver Stance...not rested. All in all, it's a good gun for the use intended & method of carry.
HTH's Rod
Look at this stuff, 'Xtreme Defender'(not Penetrator)..yes 'boutique' but tests very well(I know, 'tests') compared to many 9mm JHP in terms of penetration/wound channel type stuff...380 isn't the .380 John Browning invented over 110 years ago. What I carry everyday in G42..
Lehigh/Underwood/Blackhills all make it.
Attachments
Keltec
I like the Keltec's for what they are. High quality materials, amazing designs, and not quite "finished" I don't mind doing a fluff and buff, given the outstanding price.
I thought I would like the P11, was looking to downsize from my G19. The P11 was 100% after a good fluff and buff session.
I found it no easier to carry than my G19, so it left.
I've been pocket carrying an LCP, and I am pleased with it. I do find it prints when I wear what my wife likes to call my skinny jeans. I'm a very thin guy and snug jeans make the LCP print pretty badly.
I like the Keltec's for what they are. High quality materials, amazing designs, and not quite "finished" I don't mind doing a fluff and buff, given the outstanding price.
I thought I would like the P11, was looking to downsize from my G19. The P11 was 100% after a good fluff and buff session.
I found it no easier to carry than my G19, so it left.
I've been pocket carrying an LCP, and I am pleased with it. I do find it prints when I wear what my wife likes to call my skinny jeans. I'm a very thin guy and snug jeans make the LCP print pretty badly.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I saw some of the recommendations and I will have to disagree. First of all it is ok to recommend a gun you personnal like, but that is going to be so bias. Why would I recommend a LC9S Pro? I would not. And NO not every one agrees that such a light trigger is safe especially for a Rookie. And why not recommend a double action, or a Da/SA? Some great guns out there and many feel much safer than a light crisp striker fired trigger. And on the List provided some of the weights are wrong
And what about recoil. sights, how well the grip fits the individual hand.
Genitron is a better source. They do give a general idea what the recoil is calculated at, and they will show the size comparison of the pistols. Plug in your own numbers and go from there. But for sure, take the time to find OUT WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU, DO NOT GO BY A LIST THAT SOME INTERNET GUY SAYS ARE THE BEST. Take your time, rent guns, shoot the guns of friends, and join a club where members can share guns etc.
Size is NOT the only Criteria. All of these guns have their own individual uniqueness and individual traits. They ALL have their Pros and Cons, and only the individual can give that answer.
And for Gosh sake, break down the gun and look at the rails, the sub chassis etc. Is it steel or is it aluminum. COMPARE side by side. If you are going to shoot often and a lot of lead down range, these are things you need to know. I would not want a aluminum chassis gun for any reason, simply because I shoot my EDC often I want steel. And I want a gun to hold up. I have had too many aluminum chassis, simply fold like a weak lawn chair when any substantial ammo is fired down range.
Break your final choices down and compare.
And what about recoil. sights, how well the grip fits the individual hand.
Genitron is a better source. They do give a general idea what the recoil is calculated at, and they will show the size comparison of the pistols. Plug in your own numbers and go from there. But for sure, take the time to find OUT WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU, DO NOT GO BY A LIST THAT SOME INTERNET GUY SAYS ARE THE BEST. Take your time, rent guns, shoot the guns of friends, and join a club where members can share guns etc.
Size is NOT the only Criteria. All of these guns have their own individual uniqueness and individual traits. They ALL have their Pros and Cons, and only the individual can give that answer.
And for Gosh sake, break down the gun and look at the rails, the sub chassis etc. Is it steel or is it aluminum. COMPARE side by side. If you are going to shoot often and a lot of lead down range, these are things you need to know. I would not want a aluminum chassis gun for any reason, simply because I shoot my EDC often I want steel. And I want a gun to hold up. I have had too many aluminum chassis, simply fold like a weak lawn chair when any substantial ammo is fired down range.
Break your final choices down and compare.
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Carl,
I got the Shield weight from the poster above. If it’s actually 21 ounces, then that’s my new limit because I can definitely carry it in the front pocket, in fact I’ve been doing it for months with no issues, in a De Santis Nemesis holster. I can feel it’s there, and wouldn’t go for a long walk with it in that carry mode, but it definitely works for just bopping around Town.
The G43 and P 365 are clearly smaller and lighter, and because of this maybe preferable overall since they also shoot well. I already sold my Shield once to a buddy and then bought it back. Keeping it this time.
As for the LC9s, my first one WAS unreliable, with symptoms as described by Galloway. Wish I had learned of their fix before ditching it, it was very accurate. If Ruger has fixed the design flaw, great, it still has sharp recoil and a vulnerable mag release as I described.
You certainly are a fan of the little Berettas, I wouldn’t be surprised if their marketing department didn’t contact you at some point. Since you say the Nano is smaller than I remember it might be worth another look. I do remember the grip seemed too short and note you have added a finger extension to yours.
I got the Shield weight from the poster above. If it’s actually 21 ounces, then that’s my new limit because I can definitely carry it in the front pocket, in fact I’ve been doing it for months with no issues, in a De Santis Nemesis holster. I can feel it’s there, and wouldn’t go for a long walk with it in that carry mode, but it definitely works for just bopping around Town.
The G43 and P 365 are clearly smaller and lighter, and because of this maybe preferable overall since they also shoot well. I already sold my Shield once to a buddy and then bought it back. Keeping it this time.
As for the LC9s, my first one WAS unreliable, with symptoms as described by Galloway. Wish I had learned of their fix before ditching it, it was very accurate. If Ruger has fixed the design flaw, great, it still has sharp recoil and a vulnerable mag release as I described.
You certainly are a fan of the little Berettas, I wouldn’t be surprised if their marketing department didn’t contact you at some point. Since you say the Nano is smaller than I remember it might be worth another look. I do remember the grip seemed too short and note you have added a finger extension to yours.