Okay. What's the inside story on SKS accuracy or the lack of. I have a Chinese SKS that won't group for squat at 100 yards. I have tried the Russian FMJ's, HP's, and SP's. Does this ammo really suck that badly? Spending good money on Winchester ammo is really defeating the purpose of owning an SKS. Also, is there any difference in the inherent accuracy between the Russian, Romanian or Chinese SKS's? I have another SKS, a 16 inch carbine, that loves the cheap ammo and groups great at 150 yards. What's going on here?
SKS Accuracy?
- Thread starter Hammy
- Start date
FireForged
New member
I have noticed that the Russian and Chi-Com ammo is inconsistant. I have never shot a good group at 100yards with that stuff. Combat accuracy from 50-70 yards is perfect.
The Winchester and Remington ammo with do alot better at 100. But the SKS was never designed to be a tack driver. Check your barrel and see if it is Chrome lined. If not, that could count for some of the problem. Non-chromed SKS barrels are normally well worn by the time they end up in the U.S
The Winchester and Remington ammo with do alot better at 100. But the SKS was never designed to be a tack driver. Check your barrel and see if it is Chrome lined. If not, that could count for some of the problem. Non-chromed SKS barrels are normally well worn by the time they end up in the U.S
Have you guys tried to sight the SKS's you own. Not to be a hard@ss, but really have you guys sighted them SKS's in. If the SKS is not sighted-in it wont group for squad, not at any range greater than 75yards. Tapco Inc, and SKSMAN and many other companies that deal with SKS's sell tools and kits that adjust your windage and elevation on your SKS's. You guys should try them out. I also have many SKS's from many origins and some are worned and some are in excellent condition and all shoot .75-3inch groups at 100yards. I even own a Chicom SKS that groups 1-2inches@150yards and I am using cheap HP Wolf ammo, $1.50 a box. Anyways sight the SKS with the windage and elevation tool and see the results. Later.
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"They may kill me, but there will always be more like me". -EDA
They told me,"throw down your guns, return to the earth...HAH! time enough for the earth in the grave". -EDA
"Giving up is not in my vocabulary". -EDA
"Do not fear the governments, that fears you". -EDA
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"They may kill me, but there will always be more like me". -EDA
They told me,"throw down your guns, return to the earth...HAH! time enough for the earth in the grave". -EDA
"Giving up is not in my vocabulary". -EDA
"Do not fear the governments, that fears you". -EDA
Hammy, some SKSs shoot great others.... not so good. I bet your crappy shooting Chinese SKS is one of the pinned barreled (export)models. While your 16" barreled SKS is probably a shortened military model. The military have screwed (threaded) barrels that you can recognize by the flats in front of the receiver. The military will also have a milled vs. stamped trigger guard.
I have a military Jianshe (Triangle 26) Chinese SKS that will shoot 1 1/2" or better 5 shot groups at 100m with iron sights. I also had a Norinco import with pinned barrel that couldn't hold 7" at that range!
Trade off the bad shooter. As far as I know all SKSs have chromed bores and barrels unless they've been rebarreled.
Regards! DaMan
[This message has been edited by DaMan (edited September 24, 2000).]
I have a military Jianshe (Triangle 26) Chinese SKS that will shoot 1 1/2" or better 5 shot groups at 100m with iron sights. I also had a Norinco import with pinned barrel that couldn't hold 7" at that range!
Trade off the bad shooter. As far as I know all SKSs have chromed bores and barrels unless they've been rebarreled.
Regards! DaMan
[This message has been edited by DaMan (edited September 24, 2000).]
Bob, the Romanians are threaded and have the milled parts like the Russian SKSs. How much did you pay for yours and what kind of condition was it in?
I recently saw a Romanian SKS at a local gun store which was really rough. The owner told me that all of the Romanians are pretty well used. Methinks he is stretching the truth because the only example he had was in poor condition.
Regards! DaMan
I recently saw a Romanian SKS at a local gun store which was really rough. The owner told me that all of the Romanians are pretty well used. Methinks he is stretching the truth because the only example he had was in poor condition.
Regards! DaMan
Chad Young
New member
I have shot more than a few SKS rifles and the results have varied widely according to the rifle and ammunation used. The most accurate ammo I have shot is Lapua. It is, however, not cheap and is hard to find. East German and Sellier and Bellot do ok. I have the non-Wolf Russian and Norinco amo to be complete crap. Wolf is ok, but not great. I use it for plinking ammo.
Well, the last SKS I shot would do no better than "minute of beer can" at 100 yards. I have seen some do 2", but most do 2-4" at 100 yards.
I would just *love* to see an American manufacturer take the SKS design and put in a fixed 5-round mag, peep sights, synthetic or wood stock, a good safety, and market it is a dandy little hunting rifle. I would happily pay $ for that!
[This message has been edited by Chad Young (edited September 25, 2000).]
Well, the last SKS I shot would do no better than "minute of beer can" at 100 yards. I have seen some do 2", but most do 2-4" at 100 yards.
I would just *love* to see an American manufacturer take the SKS design and put in a fixed 5-round mag, peep sights, synthetic or wood stock, a good safety, and market it is a dandy little hunting rifle. I would happily pay $ for that!
[This message has been edited by Chad Young (edited September 25, 2000).]
Hi guys:
I've been playing with my 1981 Norinco SKS for a number of months now, and can say that it is accurate to about 1.5 - 2" at 100 yds even when I shoot it. I shoot at an indoor range under professional conditions. It shot great when I first got it and then I disassembled it to restore the stock and remove an aftermarket "flash supressor". When I reassemble it back to orginal, it was out in left field. I spent the next two sessions at the range properly sighting it in under the tutlage of
a professional marksman. The proceedure he introduced me to is really an exacting science which requires patience and effort. You actually get tired after 2 hours of tweaking the adjustments. Eventually, however, I got it almost back to where it was. My eyesight for rifles, especially at 100 yards, is not great, however, so I'm going to spend one more session of tweaking and then mount a 4 x 25 short scope on it.
I've had no problem with the Wolf hp ammo and use it in both my SKS and an Ak47. The AK is so accurate that it's scary. The SKS is an easy rifle to tame but it does take some effort to dial everything in. Don't forget, the windage adjustment is an interference fit, not threaded like the site post. In addition, unless you've mounted the rifle in a stand, you still have your shooting ability to contend with. After 2 hours, you can get really tired and bleary eyed. So, if you don't know how to start, find someone who will help you sight-in your rifle properly. It really helped me and introduced me to some proper training for the next time.
By the way, I too believe that all SKS barrels were chromed.
Rome
I've been playing with my 1981 Norinco SKS for a number of months now, and can say that it is accurate to about 1.5 - 2" at 100 yds even when I shoot it. I shoot at an indoor range under professional conditions. It shot great when I first got it and then I disassembled it to restore the stock and remove an aftermarket "flash supressor". When I reassemble it back to orginal, it was out in left field. I spent the next two sessions at the range properly sighting it in under the tutlage of
a professional marksman. The proceedure he introduced me to is really an exacting science which requires patience and effort. You actually get tired after 2 hours of tweaking the adjustments. Eventually, however, I got it almost back to where it was. My eyesight for rifles, especially at 100 yards, is not great, however, so I'm going to spend one more session of tweaking and then mount a 4 x 25 short scope on it.
I've had no problem with the Wolf hp ammo and use it in both my SKS and an Ak47. The AK is so accurate that it's scary. The SKS is an easy rifle to tame but it does take some effort to dial everything in. Don't forget, the windage adjustment is an interference fit, not threaded like the site post. In addition, unless you've mounted the rifle in a stand, you still have your shooting ability to contend with. After 2 hours, you can get really tired and bleary eyed. So, if you don't know how to start, find someone who will help you sight-in your rifle properly. It really helped me and introduced me to some proper training for the next time.
By the way, I too believe that all SKS barrels were chromed.
Rome
FireForged
New member
The Russian SKS that I have now is Chromed but an old Chi-Com that I had several years ago was not. It was a terrible rifle and I got rid of it. Love the Russian ones though. Best group for me has been 3.2" at 100.
I have a Romo SKS, and I haven't shot it yet, will do that this coming weekend. I don't know how well it shoots, but I can tell you that when I got it, it looked like it just had sex with Rosanne, that's how bad it looked.
A lot of cleaning, some flitz, some serious Hoppes, and a new stock, and the thing looks sweet. Now let's see who well it shoots. I'll let you guys know when I get back from the range saturday... I hope mine is a good shooter, if not, oh well, it's dirt cheap, to buy and to shoot...
Albert
A lot of cleaning, some flitz, some serious Hoppes, and a new stock, and the thing looks sweet. Now let's see who well it shoots. I'll let you guys know when I get back from the range saturday... I hope mine is a good shooter, if not, oh well, it's dirt cheap, to buy and to shoot...
Albert
I paid about $275 for mine a year and a half or so ago. It's not pristine, but it's in "good" condition. I've been kicking around the idea of dropping it into a synthetic stock, though.
Gotta fess up that I am not sure what ammo I was shooting. The rifle has been in Colorado for over a year waiting for me to get out of the Navy (17 days to go!) and join it (along with my family, of course). It's been longer than that 15 months since I shot it last. I left all the ammo out there with it when I took most of my household goods out there last September. Could only afford to keep the bare essentials here with me, as everything had to fit in my Dodge Stratus when I go for good. That meant the AR and the Savage 10FP, along with my two Glocks.
Chrome-lined barrel. EXTREMELY smooth cycling and feeding. Threaded.
What part(s) of the one you looked at were "rough"? I haven't seen to many Romanian SKS's that were in bad shape. The vast majority of them would rate at least a "fair", and more than a few of them would get a "good" or better.
Gotta fess up that I am not sure what ammo I was shooting. The rifle has been in Colorado for over a year waiting for me to get out of the Navy (17 days to go!) and join it (along with my family, of course). It's been longer than that 15 months since I shot it last. I left all the ammo out there with it when I took most of my household goods out there last September. Could only afford to keep the bare essentials here with me, as everything had to fit in my Dodge Stratus when I go for good. That meant the AR and the Savage 10FP, along with my two Glocks.
Chrome-lined barrel. EXTREMELY smooth cycling and feeding. Threaded.
What part(s) of the one you looked at were "rough"? I haven't seen to many Romanian SKS's that were in bad shape. The vast majority of them would rate at least a "fair", and more than a few of them would get a "good" or better.
I have a Norinco SKS and I believe most of these rifles tend to spread groups after the barrel heats up. I seen mine go from 2 inch groups to 6 inch groups after twenty rounds in 20 minutes or so. I've done some work on the trajectory of the common 7.62X39 cartridge (123g 2400fps) and found that a 200 yd. zero works out the best. You are +1.5" at 50yds., +3.0" at 100yds., and 0.0" at 200yds. With iron sights in a supported position 4-5" groupings at 100yds. is a good standard. Leave the 1" groups to braggards and gun writers.
stuckatwork
New member
Okay, let's look at what the SKS was designed to do. First it was designed to hit a man sized target out to about 300 yards. This means a 6 to 10" group at 200 yards. Second, it was designed to carried, used and abused by Chinese plowboys and Russian peasents who never seen a rifle in their entire lives. It was designed to go for long periods without being cleaned, oiled or maintained. To sit in the mud while Charlie munched on his bowl of rice, waiting to be picked up and pop off a couple of rounds at the passing American patrol. Then tossed down a dirty tunnel for the escape. And function the next time it was needed. The SKS is exactly the weapon for what it was designed to be.
Is it as accurate as a M-16, 14 or M-1...no. And no matter what you do to it, it never will be. Is it a good get down and dirty rifle, yes it is. Would I pick it over an American military rifle in a firefight? No. Would I shoot coyotes with it or carry it in my truck as my just in case rifle? Yes, and I do. Would I shoot a NRA High Power Match with a SKS? Yes, I already have and did okay. (Well, good enough not to be laughed at anyway) Would I shoot a NRA High Power Match with an SKS that I was being serious about? No, it is the wrong tool for the job.
The SKS can be improved with some work and care. Hand loaded tailored ammo will get you better results than the cheap plinking surplus stuff helps. The 7.62X39 round has similar ballistic behavior as the 30-30 round. And hits with about the same force.
I think it is a nice medium power round.
I hear so many people asking why they can shoot sub-MOA's with their SKS or Mini-14. For some reason, these people don't understand the rifle was never intended to do this. If you want to shoot a coyote at 75 yards, the SKS will do. If you want to knock varments (the two or four legged variety) off rocks at 600 yards, get a better rifle.
Just accept the fact that the SKS is what it is: a decent rifle that will shoot a bullet in the general direction of what it was aimed at. Fellas, you simply can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
Is it as accurate as a M-16, 14 or M-1...no. And no matter what you do to it, it never will be. Is it a good get down and dirty rifle, yes it is. Would I pick it over an American military rifle in a firefight? No. Would I shoot coyotes with it or carry it in my truck as my just in case rifle? Yes, and I do. Would I shoot a NRA High Power Match with a SKS? Yes, I already have and did okay. (Well, good enough not to be laughed at anyway) Would I shoot a NRA High Power Match with an SKS that I was being serious about? No, it is the wrong tool for the job.
The SKS can be improved with some work and care. Hand loaded tailored ammo will get you better results than the cheap plinking surplus stuff helps. The 7.62X39 round has similar ballistic behavior as the 30-30 round. And hits with about the same force.
I think it is a nice medium power round.
I hear so many people asking why they can shoot sub-MOA's with their SKS or Mini-14. For some reason, these people don't understand the rifle was never intended to do this. If you want to shoot a coyote at 75 yards, the SKS will do. If you want to knock varments (the two or four legged variety) off rocks at 600 yards, get a better rifle.
Just accept the fact that the SKS is what it is: a decent rifle that will shoot a bullet in the general direction of what it was aimed at. Fellas, you simply can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
Stuckatwork,
That's a great explaination of the SKS's abilities with the perspective of the Russian designer captured perfectly, right down to Asians eating rice and escaping through tunnels. I guess he never figured on redneck gun nuts shooting cans in the USA, did he?
P.S. I have to add that I do not mean that as a flame. I'm just poking fun at the stereotypical imagery used.
[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited September 27, 2000).]
That's a great explaination of the SKS's abilities with the perspective of the Russian designer captured perfectly, right down to Asians eating rice and escaping through tunnels. I guess he never figured on redneck gun nuts shooting cans in the USA, did he?
P.S. I have to add that I do not mean that as a flame. I'm just poking fun at the stereotypical imagery used.
[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited September 27, 2000).]
stuckatwork
New member
I have wondered what old man Kalisnicoff (sp?) feels about his rifles being such a big hit with the American shooters?
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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
Dear Stuckatwork and Tuc22:
Yes, you did hit the nail dead on. The SKS is by no means a "tack driver" and you're also right about the barrel heating up after 20 or so hot quick rounds. All this being considered, however, the SKS is a "bad-boy" rifle.
As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I've been trying to dial my Norinco rifle back into an acceptible accuracy. I mounted a 4x25 scope on it and set the initial target to 50 yards. The first round plugged the target dead center, right under the x of the scope. Perfect! I moved the target to 100 yards and spent the next hour trying to get all the rounds on the paper. I was finally able to shoot a horizontal line about 8" long before I quit for the night. We were very methodical and decided that the Wolf ammo had to be the problem. Three of us had the same experience. So, I'll head back to the range on Tues armed with some US ammo instead of the Wolf for some comparison.
Also introduced my 17 year old daughter to the pleasures of rifle target practice. She did pretty well and hit a number of 100 yard targets including a turkey made from a slab of 1/2" metal. Cool! Anyone with suggestions as to why the gun was so accurate at 50 but lousey at 100 will be appreciated. Mechanically the scope mount and weapon are very stable and sound. Ammo is the only real variable right now. Any comments?
Rome
Yes, you did hit the nail dead on. The SKS is by no means a "tack driver" and you're also right about the barrel heating up after 20 or so hot quick rounds. All this being considered, however, the SKS is a "bad-boy" rifle.
As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I've been trying to dial my Norinco rifle back into an acceptible accuracy. I mounted a 4x25 scope on it and set the initial target to 50 yards. The first round plugged the target dead center, right under the x of the scope. Perfect! I moved the target to 100 yards and spent the next hour trying to get all the rounds on the paper. I was finally able to shoot a horizontal line about 8" long before I quit for the night. We were very methodical and decided that the Wolf ammo had to be the problem. Three of us had the same experience. So, I'll head back to the range on Tues armed with some US ammo instead of the Wolf for some comparison.
Also introduced my 17 year old daughter to the pleasures of rifle target practice. She did pretty well and hit a number of 100 yard targets including a turkey made from a slab of 1/2" metal. Cool! Anyone with suggestions as to why the gun was so accurate at 50 but lousey at 100 will be appreciated. Mechanically the scope mount and weapon are very stable and sound. Ammo is the only real variable right now. Any comments?
Rome
Jeff Thomas
New member
Let me ask a question about Ed's post.
Whether your SKS's are sighted in or not, how will that affect the grouping?
Where the group appears on the paper ... sure, that I get. But, assuming you / I do our part with the rifle, sight alignment and trigger control, ... the rifle will group according to it's capability, environmental conditions and ammo, right?
Thanks. Regards from AZ
Whether your SKS's are sighted in or not, how will that affect the grouping?
Where the group appears on the paper ... sure, that I get. But, assuming you / I do our part with the rifle, sight alignment and trigger control, ... the rifle will group according to it's capability, environmental conditions and ammo, right?
Thanks. Regards from AZ
Rome,
Gosh, there are so many varibles at work here; the scope, the mount, the trigger (SKS's are lousy), hot barrel, how you rested the forend, and your cheekweld and other tensions created against the barrel or stock. Get some different ammo this next time and start at 100 yds. Slow way down and group three shots, stop, let rifle cool completely and shoot another three shot group. If you see any consistency then you're on the right track. I'd set that scope so bullet impacts 3" high at 100yds., then you would have an approx. 200yd zero.
Jeff, I believe you are quite correct!
[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited September 28, 2000).]
Gosh, there are so many varibles at work here; the scope, the mount, the trigger (SKS's are lousy), hot barrel, how you rested the forend, and your cheekweld and other tensions created against the barrel or stock. Get some different ammo this next time and start at 100 yds. Slow way down and group three shots, stop, let rifle cool completely and shoot another three shot group. If you see any consistency then you're on the right track. I'd set that scope so bullet impacts 3" high at 100yds., then you would have an approx. 200yd zero.
Jeff, I believe you are quite correct!
[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited September 28, 2000).]
Had an Chi Com SKS some years back,with mods. First, I put it in a synthetic stock, added a 30 rd mag, and had a smith friend put on a peep sight and take off a few lbs of trigger weight. I ended up with a 4 lb trigger and groups around 3 inches @ 100 yards with Chi Com ammo.
The 30 rd mag was a mistake. Too long for low prone.
The 30 rd mag was a mistake. Too long for low prone.
Chad Young
New member
"I have wondered what old man Kalisnicoff (sp?) feels about his rifles being such a big hit with the American shooters?"
The SKS was designed by Simonov, not Kalashnikov. The AK series was designed by Kalashnikov.
The SKS was designed by Simonov, not Kalashnikov. The AK series was designed by Kalashnikov.