Single-term limits for President, Senators, maybe House members?

tyme

Administrator
Tocqueville, Democracy in America, chapter 8, "Concerning the Reelection of the President"

Should presidents be eligible for reelection

Were the lawgivers of the United States right or wrong to allow the reelection of the President?

To refuse the head of the executive the chance of reelection seems, at first sight, contrary to reason. One knows what influence the talents or character of a single man exercise over the fate of a whole people, especially in times of difficulty or crisis. Laws forbidding the citizens from reelecting their first magistrate would deprive them of their best means of bringing prosperity to the state or of saving it. In that way one would reach this odd result that a man would be excluded from the government just at the moment when he had succeeded in proving his capacity to rule well.

No doubt those are powerful arguments, but can one not bring up even stronger ones against them?

Intrigue and corruption are natural vices of elective governments; but when the head of state can be reelected, these vices spread beyond bounds and compromise the very existence of the country. When a simple candidate forces himself forward by intrigue, his maneuvers can only take place within a restricted sphere. But when the head of state himself is in the lists, he can borrow all the power of the government for his private use.

In the first case it is a question of a man with feeble resources; in the second, it is the state itself with all its immense resources which intrigues and which corrupts.

The simple citizen guilty of disreputable maneuvers to gain power can harm public prosperity only in some indirect way; but if the representative of the executive power descends to compete, the cares of government become for him a secondary consideration; his main concern is for his election. For him negotiations, like laws, are nothing but electoral combinations; places become the reward for services rendered, not to the nation, but to its head. Even if the government's action is not always contrary to the nation's interest, at least it no longer serves it. But the function of government is solely to serve the country.

It is impossible to observe the normal course of affairs in the United States without noticing that desire for reelection dominates the President's thoughts, that the whole policy of his administration is bent toward that aim, that his slightest actions are subordinate to that aim, and that, particularly as the moment of crises [reelection] draws nearer, his private interest takes the place of the general interest in his mind.

Therefore the principle of reelection makes the corrupting in fluence of elective governments wider spread and more dangerous. It tends to degrade the political morality of the nation and to substitute craft for patriotism.

In America it attacks the very sources of national existence at still closer range.

Each type of government harbors one natural vice which seems inherent in the very nature of its being; the genius of a lawgiver consists in discerning that clearly. A state may stand triumphant over many bad laws, and the harm they do is often exaggerated. But any law having the effect of nourishing this mortal germ cannot fail, in the long run, to prove fatal, even though its ill effects may not be immediately apparent.

In absolute monarchies the ruinous principle is the unlimited and unreasonable extension of the royal power. Any measure, therefore, which takes away the counterweights left by the constitution to balance this power, is radically bad, even though its effects may long seem negligible.

In the same way, in a country where democracy holds sway and a people constantly attracts everything to itself, laws which make its action ever prompter and more irresistible are a direct attack on the existence of the government.

The greatest merit of the lawgivers of America was to have seen this truth clearly and to have had the courage to act accordingly.

They agreed that, besides the people, there must be a certain number of authorities which, though not entirely independent of it, nevertheless enjoyed within their sphere a fairly wide degree of freedom; by this means, though forced to obey the permanent directions of the majority, they could still struggle against its caprices and refuse to be the tools of its dangerous exigencies.

With this object, they concentrated the whole executive power of the nation in the hands of one man; they gave wide prerogatives to the President and armed him with the veto with which to resist the encroachments of the legislature.

But by introducing the principle of reelection they destroyed a part of their work. They gave the President much power, but took away from him the will to use it.

Had he not been reeligible, the President would still not have been independent of the people, or his responsibility toward it never ceased; but the people's favor would not have been so necessary to him that he must in everything bend to its will.

Reeligible (and this is especially true in our day, when political morality is growing lax and men of great character are vanishing from the scene), the President of the United States is only a docile instrument in the hands of the majority. He loves what it loves and hates what it hates; he sails ahead of its desires, anticipating its complaints and bending to its slightest wishes; the lawgivers wished him to guide it, but it is he who follows.

In this way, intending not to deprive the state of one man's talents, they have rendered those talents almost useless, and to preserve a resource against extraordinary eventualities, they have exposed the country to dangers every day.

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Is Tocqueville right, or would solving this "problem" do more harm than good? If an amendment were to prohibit the President from seeking a second term, should he be denied the right to run for any elected office once his single term is complete (Governor, Secretary General of the UN, etc.)? Should Senators and House Members be denied the possibility of re-election? What about House members seeking a Senate Seat, or either seeking the Presidency or Vice-Presidency... should that be prohibited?

Would it be constitutional to deny a former Federal Congressperson or President from running for an elective State office? Vice versa?

Is there too much danger danger of a former elected official getting a lucrative private-sector job, stock, or other favors as repayment for his vote or support as a Congressperson or as President? Can anything be done to prevent that?
 
interesting read. a question like this would make a good college thesis paper, or hell, maybe even a disertation. i think that the founding fathers originally left in the provisions for reelection because they felt that they were honorable men and probably did not see their gov't becoming corrupt because back then, the people involved in gov't were usually "gentlemen."

to answer the question of term limits, i think that the president and VP should be limited to a single 6 yr term and maybe limit both senators and congressmen to two 4 year terms.

they also need to get rid of paying out a pension for life for senators and congressmen. think of how much money that would save the taxpayers! all of the senators/congressmen are pretty well off anyway; they don't need a huge pension from the gov't for the rest of their life.

i wouldn't have a huge problem with congressmen taking their 2 terms then moving to the senate for two terms, and then maybe the presidency for a term. that's WAY better than idiots like kennedy, schumer, et al getting reelected time and time again.
 
I'd like to see at least a 12 year limit for house and senate members.It was never meant to be a lifetime job.The longer they are in the more corruption and more interest in just playing 'politics' . Yes things have changed ,originally congress was operated only 6 months each year !!
 
SET A TERM LIMIT. For many Gov. jobs are a way of life with a BIG payday .John Glenn retired from the senate he was worth like 50 million dollars.Not bad for a retired military pay and gov pension.

Kevin
 
Kevin, are astronauts on a normal military or government pay scale?

Here's another passage:
[Crisis of the Election (Tocqueville is concerned with the Presidency, but this applies equally well to reelection of every official)]
...
Long before the appointed day arrives, the election becomes the greatest, and one might say the only, affair occupying men's minds. At this time factions redouble their ardor; then every forced passion that imagination can create in a happy and peaceful country spreads excitement in broad daylight.

The President, for his part, is absorbed in the task of defending himself. He no longer rules in the interest of the state, but in that of his own reelection; he prostrates himself before the majority, and often, instead of resisting their passions as duty requires, he hastens to anticipate thier caprices.

As the election draws near, intrigues grow more active and agitation is more lively and wider spread. The citizens divide up into several camps, each of which takes its name from its candidate. The whole nation gets into a feverish state, the election is the daily theme of comment in the newspapers and private conversation, the object of every action and the subject of every thought, and the sole interest for the moment.
 
Wonderful ideas, but incumbents are unlikely to be sufficiently patriotic to constrain their power by establishing term limitations.
 
Wonderful ideas, but incumbents are unlikely to be sufficiently patriotic to constrain their power by establishing term limitations.

Unfortunately, the above is dead-on correct. Anyone who wants to run for the House or Senate on either major party ticket is usually already a millionaire or a multimillionaire. Money is not what they want, although there will be plenty of that to be had.

What they want is POWER - raw power that they can wield to bend we mere mortals to their will.

Why does a billionaire like Ted Kennedy get up every morning and go to work, of all places? Why did he spend the best years of his sorry life working instead of motoring about the Caribbean and other south Pacific ports of call, eating the finest food, drinking the finest liquor and shagging the finest bimbos??

Why? One word: POWER. The power to bend the common working man to his will. The power to exhalt himself at the expense of the rights of the unwashed masses. The pathological thirst for POWER is what drives creatures of his ilk.

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Ever heard that one before??
 
I definitely think there should be term limits on Senate and House members.
I agree with cookhj: two 4 year terms for congress, one 6 year for pres. (I would also like to see the return of the Winner gets Pres, Loser gets VP)

I think it'd be okay to 'work your way up' from house-senate-pres. With the term limits, it would take a dedicated person to do it, especially if they cut the pensions, which is my next point.

I heartily agree with cutting the life long pension of congress members. Senators are paid $160,000+ a year!!! I saw a recent report that said something like nearly 70% of Senators are multi-millionares! Yet, they claim to sympathize with us 'serfs'. :barf: Let's see, last I checked, IF I get to retire, I don't think I'll be pulling down a 13 GRAND + a month pension...
 
Single term limits for everyone. No retirement of any kind. Cut the salary in half or more. Make it retroactive to 1789 and ruin lots of days. Cut congressional staffs to two people maximum. Make all members read and understand everything they vote on.
 
I'm fine with the one reelection for president. But it makes no sense that the President is limited, while congress isn't. Two reelections for house, one for senate and president.
 
I'd like to see implementation of the citizen-legislator model as was envisioned by the dead European White-Guys. Some one with a real life says, "I'll go for one term, do my thing, then return to the real world." Since the reason for doing congress now is power, I think the best think we can do is implement term limits. The Class of 1994 supposidly term limited itself but those spinelessrepublicans forgot the promise when they saw how fun it was to be in power.

--Term limits of 12 years total
--Never to return to congress after 12 total service
--Abolition of any and all congressional retirement plans
 
Single terms arn't the answer, go look at any job with high turnover, you hardly get the best available. Yes there needs to be term limits, I still think something along the 12 year limit is good. Long enough to gain experience, yet short enough to not be a lifetime job.
 
8 years max for any one office, or 12 years max total combined.

The Reps already do 2 year stints, Senators, the President and VP, 4, so there would not need to be any other changes to the system. 8/12 is a nice common denominator.

I also agree with cutting the pensions. How long does a soldier need to be in to receive a pension? 20 years or more? Make it the same for everyone. If a Senator has managed to put in 12 years in law-making, then he can finish off with 8 years in some other government service position.

I'll leave their salaries as they are, but they should not get any extra money for staffing, offices, or any other expense.
 
I'm bigtime in the minority here, but I oppose term limits(although I sometimes benefit from them - Laura Baird, Gilda Jacobs, etc). The reason being that once a rep is in his/her last term, they no longer have to face the people in re-election.

The reason the Carl Lenins and Ted Kennedy's keep winning are the fault of voters. They made their choice. They could have voted for another person.
 
I haven't read all that has preceeded this, so bear that in mind.

I've always thought that the two terms for the presidency were alright, but that limits were needed for the House and Senate. At the same time, given the current committee and seniority systems in Congress, having some folks who have been around for a while and know the system is a good thing.

My solution: no more than five terms in the House (10 years) and no more than three terms in the Senate (18 years). The max would be a total of 28 years in the Congress--long enough for any "good" statesman or stateswoman to make a positive impact. Note, voters still need to get out to re-elect the good or "un-elect" the nefarious! If only 51% show up at the polls, well...you get what you get!
 
What if we establish limits like stated in one of the above posts. But if a person wants to run again after the term limits, they have to run a "write in" campaign. Meaning that they can still be elected, but their name can't be on the balot. People have to manualy write it in. That way, the good ones will still be able to get back in IF the people like them that much.
 
But it doesn't address the concern that reelection is a major distraction for incumbents, as well as the fact that if it's harder for them to win, they might go to even more extreme lengths to placate their constituents with popular legislation.
 
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