Single-Stack Subcompact DA/SA in 9mm?
- Thread starter Cosmodragoon
- Start date
I think the XDE is marketed to people new to pistols who want an easy to rack slide and the veneer of safety. The slide is a little easier to rack and all the operation modes give options to explore. It is not my cup of tea, but then neither was the Governor/Judge and they sold very well.
For a DA/SA operating system, I haven't found a micro that I like but do have a Sig P225A1 that I like a lot...but with an 8+1 capacity, it has a limited following in today's line up of 9mm's. It's grip is just so comfortable that I shoot it better than any other Sig I own, (P220, P290, P226 Mk25, & M11A1)
But if you can get past the DA/SA requirement, I'd strongly recommend Sig's P365, with it's 10+1 capacity and superb striker type trigger...despite its teething problems, the guns now leaving the Sig works are superb for carry. Mine is accurate (read sub 1.5" gps at 15 yds from a Weaver Stance), has a great trigger, and has been 100% malfunction free for 950 rounds now.
Best regards, Rod
But if you can get past the DA/SA requirement, I'd strongly recommend Sig's P365, with it's 10+1 capacity and superb striker type trigger...despite its teething problems, the guns now leaving the Sig works are superb for carry. Mine is accurate (read sub 1.5" gps at 15 yds from a Weaver Stance), has a great trigger, and has been 100% malfunction free for 950 rounds now.
Best regards, Rod
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Yea I have 3 Makarov"s love them. I have a Russian,Bulgarian & a East German. I like the East German the best. I do carry them as bug's. I have some really good Russian milsurp ammo 109gr,FMJ that's really hot that I use as my carry load. It's better then any of the new ammo in 9x18 out there.
Cosmodragoon
New member
As far as anyone knocking an 8+1 capacity, going single-stack necessarily means lower capacity. Double stacks need more width by definition. Does the P365 use an intermediate method of stacking?
Even though the P239 and P225 are a little wider and heavier than the target size and weight here, they really are nice little guns. Are either of these still in production?
I was thinking the same thing as the OP but the thought of my 4 PM Maks brought me back to "I already have what I need". Especially since I got them back when they were the best deals in firearms.
One or the other is my usual carry pistol. A little heavier for it's size than what the OP is looking for but that's because it's all steel (except for the grips) This is read Hell for stout. We could go on about the pros and cons of the Makarov but this has already been hashed out thoroughly in these forums!
Depends on your preference, a compact DA/SA with a thumb safety/decocker is my preference in a carry pistol and the Makarov fills the bill. Sure they are redundant in some people's opinions but this makes no difference to me.
Cosmodragoon
New member
tipoc, do you have accurate dimensions for the 3913? I'm mostly interested in height, width, and weight.
Those stats on the P239 should be 5.1" tall, 1.2" wide, and 29.5 ounces based on a web search. The 3913 is a little more elusive...
Those stats on the P239 should be 5.1" tall, 1.2" wide, and 29.5 ounces based on a web search. The 3913 is a little more elusive...
The 3913 weighs 25.4 ounces empty.
The Shield weighs 20.8 ounces empty.
The 3913 is 6.860" in length from muzzle to the furthest point of the frame.
5" in height for the 3913 from the bottom of the frame to the top of the Novack rear sights.
The Shield is 6.120" in length and 4.440" in height.
The 3913 slide is .920 in width not counting the decockers.
Width of the Shield is .960" across the frame just below the slide. The slide is about .900" in width.
The Shield on top of the 3913.
tipoc
The Shield weighs 20.8 ounces empty.
The 3913 is 6.860" in length from muzzle to the furthest point of the frame.
5" in height for the 3913 from the bottom of the frame to the top of the Novack rear sights.
The Shield is 6.120" in length and 4.440" in height.
The 3913 slide is .920 in width not counting the decockers.
Width of the Shield is .960" across the frame just below the slide. The slide is about .900" in width.
The Shield on top of the 3913.
tipoc
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While I really like my P225A1, the magazine supplied has a base plug that looks like it could hold another round...making it a 9+1.
So long as the grip thickness remains as it is, another round or two would make it just that much better...it's the feel of the grip that makes a single stack so admirable to me...I find that I get less latter shot displacement with a thinner grip...similar to a 1911.
As to conceal ability, I don't believe the add'l 1/8" that the usual double stack adds to grip thickness, adversely affects the guns printing...but I do believe and have proved to my satisfaction that the grip length is significant...adding that tell tale bulge when carrying in my accustomed 3-4 o'clock position, OWB.
Sig's P365 has an innovative magazine that retains the usual single stack's thin grip but provides for a tapered double stack and increases capacity to 10+1. It's really ground breaking in my opinion. That mag is my hope for the P225, and that Sig will see fit to offer a newly designed mag a-la P365. The P225A1 is still in production to my knowledge, but I think the P239 is finished. Rod
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HistoryJunky
New member
I think if CZ would come out with a single stack, shorter grip version of the 85 it would be great.... I'll keep wishing.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I'll throw out another not quite what the OP is asking for. Find a used or NOS Sig P290RS. It's DAO but if you can master the first shot of a DA/SA pistol you've mastered the rest of the shots of a full DAO pistol. No decocker of safety required. Nice night sights on most and soft shooting for its' size and weight.
TruthTellers
New member
It's not going to be and it's stupid to blame low sales of the XD-E on the DA/SA action, it's in large part due to the manufacturer's politics, the price, and the feel of the gun.
If Joe Schmoe walks into a gun store looking to buy himself a small 9mm for conceal carry and the LGS slaps an LC9s in his hand and then an XD-E, Mr. Schmoe is gonna buy the LC9s because the price is near half the XDE and the trigger is better.
You don't buy a DA/SA on the feel of the single action trigger, you buy it for the first round DA pull and second strike ability.
OAL - 6"
H - 4.6" (you can get a full grip, all three fingers).
W - 1"
W - 16.4 oz.
Bersa Thunder .380 CC.
no need to omit actual grip width, no need to omit mag in height measurement or controls.
there is an absolute necessity to get over yourself that the .380 ACP can't get the job done. this is the tough part.
I've been down this road. without going into details, I know PRECISELY what niche your looking for. it doesn't exist. when the xd-e came out, I instantly knew it was too long and too tall. they should have made it a 3" barrel(slightly shorter) and striker-fired DA like the P99(this would have kept the height way down). BUT, then you run into another interesting dilemma....as the weight and size go down the recoil and snappiness go up, follow-ups become less precise and slower. (with 9mm but not .380)
HST chambered, 8 FMJ in mag....or,...Precision One HP for all 9. (meets FBI standard BECAUSE it doesn't expand as big as the HST) welcome to the new world.
H - 4.6" (you can get a full grip, all three fingers).
W - 1"
W - 16.4 oz.
Bersa Thunder .380 CC.
no need to omit actual grip width, no need to omit mag in height measurement or controls.
there is an absolute necessity to get over yourself that the .380 ACP can't get the job done. this is the tough part.
I've been down this road. without going into details, I know PRECISELY what niche your looking for. it doesn't exist. when the xd-e came out, I instantly knew it was too long and too tall. they should have made it a 3" barrel(slightly shorter) and striker-fired DA like the P99(this would have kept the height way down). BUT, then you run into another interesting dilemma....as the weight and size go down the recoil and snappiness go up, follow-ups become less precise and slower. (with 9mm but not .380)
HST chambered, 8 FMJ in mag....or,...Precision One HP for all 9. (meets FBI standard BECAUSE it doesn't expand as big as the HST) welcome to the new world.
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Cosmodragoon
New member
Alright. I just started putting stats into a spreadsheet. Width is a big part of what prompted this thread. It looks like only the 3913 and the XDe get in around an inch wide. The heavier Sig P239 comes in at 1.2". The next thinnest I found is the double-stack Sphinx SDP subcompact at 1.22". The Sphinx compares favorably with the Rami except in height, though it gains three rounds for that extra third of an inch and matches the XDe at 5".
Weight and height matter, but I'm not entirely sure how much. The P99C is really light at 21.5 ounces and is only 4.3" tall, but is also 1.3" wide. (The regular P99 is relatively compact for a full-size.)
I'll check local shops and keep my fingers crossed for the next gun show. I'd like to get my hands on a 3913 to see how it feels. I'd also like to get the Sphinx SDP subcompact in my hands. I've heard mostly good things about that one too.
Weight and height matter, but I'm not entirely sure how much. The P99C is really light at 21.5 ounces and is only 4.3" tall, but is also 1.3" wide. (The regular P99 is relatively compact for a full-size.)
I'll check local shops and keep my fingers crossed for the next gun show. I'd like to get my hands on a 3913 to see how it feels. I'd also like to get the Sphinx SDP subcompact in my hands. I've heard mostly good things about that one too.
If all dozen people who want single stack DA/SA guns join forces and write constant letters to all the major manufacturers, maybe we'll see some action 
Sadly, as much as I would love to have such a thing, the XDe is the only one I think we'll ever likely see, and it's not even that great a seller for Springfield. If the grip had been made shorter, with a greater variety of magazines (like basically every other single stack including their XDs), I probably would own one. The trigger isn't that hateful and it's solid as a tank. I just keep the single stack for cases in which clothing is lighter and even the 1" wide grip will still print somewhat.
Sadly, as much as I would love to have such a thing, the XDe is the only one I think we'll ever likely see, and it's not even that great a seller for Springfield. If the grip had been made shorter, with a greater variety of magazines (like basically every other single stack including their XDs), I probably would own one. The trigger isn't that hateful and it's solid as a tank. I just keep the single stack for cases in which clothing is lighter and even the 1" wide grip will still print somewhat.
Cosmodragoon
New member
We can't really be that small a group. New shooters were still coming up on DA/SA within the last twenty years. As far as I know, Sig had been supplying DA/SA guns to law enforcement in recent memory. There also seems to be recent interest in positive trigger feedback with the rise of appendix carry. For instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP8F_cwotM8