Single Action Puzzle

This may be a shot in the dark, i have a saa from
germany, its a western marshall 44 made in 61,
a few weeks ago i was at my local range, when
the cylinder would not lock on full cock, well the
day was shot:mad:, and i was told parts are hard
to get, got home took it apart, and i could not find the
prob, i must have took it apart 6 times till bingo found
the prob, the cylinder lock bolt spring it had a air line
crack in the metal, you could not see it, it was only
when i tried to bend the spring, you could feel the week
spot then it snaped, so HH got me on to this site
www.e-gunparts.com. got it 3 days later put it back
together, now i am back in action, so it might be
worth double cecking all parts.
Oh just before anyone corects me my part is called
a sear and bolt spring.:D
 
Here's the plan

My first CAS shoot this year (possibly) is Sunday. So I have to figure out whats wrong. Everything seems to be working with the SAA since I cleaned and lubed it. I want to compare my 8 gr Unique load against a 6.7 gr Bullseye load. Five rounds each for a total of ten smokeless....to get a point of impact/aim. If something is going to happen one way or the other smokeless wise, it should be within ten rounds.

I still have 18 rds of my BP load. It shoots great! About two inches high and very tight. Assuming the pistol passes test one, test two will tell if its blackpowder itself...or...some other malfunction.....hopefully...... I know some will say "Don't shoot both at the same time.", but its only ten rounds of "clean ammo" and its associated lube, and the rest BP to see if the hand malfunctions again or not. Different bullet lube should not affect whether the hand works or not, at least not after ten rounds.

On a side note......my 1970 Lyman Reloading Handbook recommends 39 gr of 3fg in the Remington. I was shooting 30 and hitting low/left. I'm trying to imagine another 9 gr. Should that affect trajectory/point of impact, or not? If so, which way. Up or down?
 
Thats what I figured but couldn't remember.

Before I start whitlin' on my front sight, I think I'll try a different sight picture. I want to see what happens when I bring the shoulder of the front sight up into the rear notch........eh? :confused:
 
If you were hitting close to POA with 30gr. FFFG then your ball should be close to 3-5 inches low at the same range & sight picture using 39-40gr. FFFG.

At say 25 yards you will only need to raise the muzzle up just a small ammount, with what you are suggesting you may over shoot the target all together.
 
A tight barrel-cylinder gap can cause binding without fouling, simply from the cylinder heating up and expanding lengthwise. This drives folks nuts because with the gun cold there is no evidence of any problem, yet a few shots will cause binding. It is very possible that light loads of smokeless powder could "run cooler" than heavy charges of black powder.

While a B/C gap of .006-007" is considered good for normal revolvers, a revolver used with black powder and fired rapidly (i.e., CA shooting) would be better going to .008" or even .010". I have fixed one SAA type gun with a gap of only .003"; the owner couldn't get a cylinder full out of the gun without it binding.

Jim
 
i had a ruger vaquero that did exactly what Jim is talking about

check it clean with a feeler gauge,,

also i had a german 22 that just one day it would not rotate to battery,,, and like long rider said,, after really close inspection i found a cracked spring,,,,or weak,,,depends on how you look at it

but i would check the cylinder gap like Jim has suggested first

my .02

ocharry
 
Mystery SAA problem update

I took the Bounty Hunter to the range today and tried it again - shooting smokeless and blackpowder. I fired five rounds of 250 gr LFPRN pushed by 8 gr of Unique. Following that was another five using 6.7 gr of Bullseye. This was then followed by 18 rounds 30 gr of BP.

The smokeless went pretty smooth......a little rough the first shot or two.....don't know why......but it evened out finally. The BP seemed to drag a bit, and if anything totally reversed the hand situation. As it was up until today, on half cock, the half cock position as you know allows the hand to ratchet as the cylinder is spun to each loading position. Well....originally my cylinder could almost be spun by blowing on it. Now it is almost industrial strength ratcheting. click...click...click is now click...click...click! VERY positive to say the least. It in no way affects the operation of the hammer or impede the normal functioning of the whole gun....just the "loading" ratcheting....:confused:

Here's my target I used to check point of impact for all three loads (15 rds total). Distance was five yards as that seems to be the mean distance for pistol targets at the local CAS club.
 

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A tight barrel-cylinder gap can cause binding without fouling, simply from the cylinder heating up and expanding lengthwise....

While a B/C gap of .006-007" is considered good....I have fixed one SAA type gun with a gap of only .003"; the owner couldn't get a cylinder full out of the gun without it binding.

Jim
Click to expand...

I think you might have something there Jim. I remembered I have some feeler gauges in my tool box from back in the dinosaur age when I set valve clearances on cars.........the set only goes down to .002, but guess what? - that won't fit!!!!!!!:eek:

If that isn't the cause then I would bet its a major contributing factor!!

Thanks.......I'm still checking it out for other problems though......
 
The Fix

Hi ya'll......

I've been enjoying the good weather (between rain storms), helping my woman with gardening, riding my Morgan and finally fixing the fiasco foisted upon my continence by a nere' do well who fancies himself some sort of firearms genius........I fixed my Bounty Hunter.

I finally found the time to order a hand w/spring and installed it. I now have a six gun with an INDUSTRIAL grade ratcheting action. The idiot that did the action job on this piece modified the spring profile which decreased the force on the hand. This caused all sorts of problems......the worst two being the fact that at half cock the cylinder wouldn't stay still whilst loading or ejecting.....royal pain in the keister.......the second being the fact that, on occasion, the cylinder wouldn't index properly. Now it works....

For those of you with a Bounty Hunter: Ensure your cylinder pin is completely and firmly seated. Elsewise you WILL get failures to fire as the transfer bar safety will wedge itself UNDER the firing pin. (my next mod will possibly be getting another hammer and having the recess for the pin filled in with weld and removing the damn thing all together!). Also understand that with the original dimensions it simply will not function properly with black powder! To that end I might.....someday......have the barrel/cylinder gap opened up a few thousandths to accomodate.
 
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