Single Action Army Clones?

D

Deerinator

New member
I joined this site so i could get a good wheelgun question answerd. I'm going to purchase a SAA clone and i want your guys experience/opinions on the questions i have.
The choices are
Cimmaron Model P/ Navy Arms Gunfighter/ Uberti Cattleman- I do NOT want a Ruger Vaquero because of the non traditonal workings of the gun...I like my revolvers simple and easy to replace parts when all you got it a Phillips ScrewDriver.

Now I don't know about the Barrel Lenght either. I want a accurate/easy to point/well balanced setup/ and that is easy to hold and shoot well with one hand. Accuracy doesn't need to be less that 4 inches at 25 to 8 inches at 50 yards as this will be a close proximity hunting handgun as well as a tin can popper. So i don't know is 5 1/2 or 7 1/2 is the way to go.

Caliber is also a tough choice. I don't reload. The choices are 357mag and 45colt. I want to be able to smoke a 180 whitetail buck with this gun at ranges from 25 to 50 yards without having to worry about shock inadequacy.

Finish is another concern. I want the gun to hold up well in the wet climate so is bluing or stainless the way to go.

Also should i get those wolff spring replacements for the pluger cylinder catch at the botton? I've had one break on my Uberti 1851 percussion. Thanks guys i hope some gunslingers can help me out here.
 
OK. Cimmarons are expensive and better finished but, they are Ubertis. The Navy Arms Gunfighters are usually Ubertis with replacement springs. The Uberti is the less expensive and therefore better model to buy and tune/replace the springs in. The Colt SAAs, the USFA and the Hartford Armory are the top of the line single actions. Doug Turnbull is using USFA revolvers to produce some nice clones. My own thoughts would be to go Uberti, install a Lees Gunsmithing spring set and Eagle grips. I am waiting to see the Taurus Gaucho single action revolvers myself. Most of your other questions come down to personal choice. I wouldn't buy nickel with a fixed sight revolver. You need to adjust the sights for POA/POI for your loads. Filing with trial and refiling is the normal method. Filing will ruin the nickel finish.
 
Barrel length is personal, but for hunting try the longest that's comfortable.
While stainless is preferred by most for outdoor uses, blued models can also serve you well with a little care. It will show it's age a lot sooner, but that's admired by some folks. Remember to take the stocks off to let the revolver dry no mater what finish you choose.
Caliber is tough. While both will work at those ranges I would rather have the big bore. The problem would be in suitable bullets in a .45 Colt with a revolver of that design. By not handloading you are put at a disadvantage. The .357mag maybe the better choice for you, if limited to just those two cartridges, but make sure you use a suitable load with a heavy bullet and place your shots carefully.
 
My thought on the caliber issue is to look at what you already have. In 357 Magnum, I like Winchester Supreme in 180 gr JHP. This works fine from a 5.5" barrel. If you really intend to hut, check and see if you can locate a 7.5" flattop Bisley Target with adjustable sights.
 
Buffalo bore now has "clone" hunting loads

If you're considering hunting with your Italian clone, take a look at the new Buffalo Bore cartridges in .45 LC. Unlike their previous "Vaquero/Blackhawk only" loads, these new loads have been made with clones and Colt SAAs in mind.

Also, I'd go for the Cimarron. They really work these over relative to your Navy Arms and Uberti clones.
 
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Sir William- If i have to file my front post would you recommend that i have a smith do that or is it a realitivly simple process. I know all you do is scrape metal but this is a 400 dollar piece were talking about.

jonathan- Yeah i mean flat head...i kicked myself after i posted.

Cimmaron-Uberti firearms seem to be the order of the day...i hate to bring this up but I just found EMF firearms and i Believe they are uberti as well anyone have these models?

I don't want to get the target sites/bisley grip..granted they have there place and are made for shooting accuratly i just wouldn't fell right when i'm trying to be a close to the 1873 that i can. I will probably get the wolff springs or someother replacements because i have had a metal spring break on my 1851 uberti percussion.

I'm going to stick with the 357 because even though its not as traditonal i will be able to practice a heck of a lot more on a slim buget with 38specials.
Heres a good question...if i practice at distances from 25 to 50 yards will the 38 special and the same bullet drop as the 357 or is it going to be night and day with the point of impact? Because it would be usless to shoot one load all the time and then be completly off when you use the Mag right? then getting the 45 would be the better choice.

Is there any advantages between the OLD MODEL frame and the NEW MODEL frame. I just discoved this. The old model looks to be a lot simpler but i do not have one.

Whew...Sorry for the barrage of more questions but i would like to get all the basis covered so i can make the Best informed choice.

Thanks guys
 
EMF uses Pietta as their current supplier. They have soft internal parts. The Ubertis would be a better choice over a Pietta. The reason I didn't mention the stainless steel models is they are still unknown. Different manufacturer and steel. There is just not much experience/history to judge them, yet. As concerns the sights, night and day. The 125 gr, 158 gr and 180 gr will ALL have differing POA/POI. The 38 Special to 357 Magnum change alone will change things due to velocity alone. The single action with fixed sights is one weapon that almost demands a single load. Your sights should be set for that load and then you don't change. The reason for adjustable sights is to allow you to change POA/POI easier for different loads.
 
Backing up Sir William, I too have heard Pietta has had soft parts.

Deerinator, I think the New Model may be a "tad" easier only because it offers a "plunger" to depress whilst removing the cylinder, as opposed to the more traditional "screw" method, which as you probably guessed, requires a screwdriver. :rolleyes:

On a budget or considering Cowboy Action Shooting, I'd probably go with the 357/38 calibers. I personally don't do CAS and, being a snob traditionalist, purchased mine for authenticity, so have stuck with .45LC. (I probably should have stuck with the Colt then!).

But the .357 will serve you well for hunting, and is IMHO probably the most practical.
 
New/Old model is not much. In CAS, the Old model would be called a black powder frame. Truthh is, Colt was making the New model frame for sometime before they changed steels and heat treatments so that they could be durable and safe with smokeless powder cartridges. The Old model did include two retainer screws. One traditional flat head screw and one turn knob.
 
Cimarron/Uberti or Uberti-labeled (for reasons already mentioned...plusses for either). Echo pro .357 comments; very nice to have the .38 Special versatility. 5.5" IMHO best of all worlds. 2nd most popular length supposedly in old days (and now) compared to 4.75, but allows a tad more fps and accuracy at little weight gain, and a bit less recoil...and to me best balanced/looking of bunch. 4.75s seem to be the favorite CAS length by far, but as an all-purpose revolver I'd go with the 5.5. Stainless if you were "serious" about that aspect as an issue with you--but, like someone said, if you get it seriously wet take it apart to dry it out anyway. If you're a meticulous type (I'm not!), get the blue--more period-correct authentic (though the SS these days does a very nice nickel imitation :)) Cimarron (and EMF, and maybe the Uberti label also) offer an "old-west" looking finish..I think Cimarron refers to as "original" - others may call it something else. Upon first hearing about I was unconvinced, but after seeing a few examples--pretty neat. Still, maybe have a hard time shelling out $$ on a new gun to make old?! My jury still out on that one! Beretta makes a "near" clone...the near part being it's adoption of the Vaquero-type transfer bar safety. Not period correct but allows a full 6 rounds. Also I believe their finish is not "true" case hardened, but again chemical treated "hardening look" similar to the Ruger. Good luck.
 
Thanks for all the replies. You guys know your stuff on these pistolas.
I was looking through my GUNS&AMMO mag and theres this guy Mike "Duke" Venturrio something and he wrote a article about "The 45 colt stinks" i wasn't able to get this issue in the store and missed out...something like theres to much "space in the casing with modern powders"? Does anyone know why that would make it STINK? I was taking back by that review on the article...i thought the 45 colt revolver was one of the best of all time...whats this guys beef with the gun?
 
I don't read gun magazines anymore for anything factual

I can't stand gun magazines anymore and rarely read them. I get better info online (I still take it with a grain of salt), as you're able to draw on so many different perspectives and experiences. With gun mags you only get one - the biased, paid writer's. Besides, he probably can't afford an authentic Colt.

Unbeknownst to the writer you're referring to, .45 Colt is a great, versatile load. It can be shot fairly cold for CAS or loaded VERY hot (only in certain revolvers/leverguns - specifically not SAA) for hunting applications. I personally am not a reloader, in part because I don't trust myself and currently live in a condo (no space), but I'm not sure that extra room left in the cartridge will really affect the performance of the bullet. Can anyone lend any ideas on that one?

Additionally, the Colt SAA and general design of the firearm have been praised for 130+ years and counting. I'd like to see that writer tell Patton his SAA sucked! Patton actually killed a couple banditos with his during the Pancho Villa skirmishes along the Mexican border, then added two notches to it. True story backed by the History Channel and the George Patton Web site.
 
to much "space in the casing with modern powders"?
Click to expand...
Same issue exists with the 357mag and 38sp so I guess they "stink" too ...? :rolleyes:

If you're buying a SA to be "traditional" then it has to be a 45 LC or 44-40, IMO. :)

You might want to get an SAA clone for fun and a Blackhawk for hunting. ;)

The thing you would have to be careful with is too keep your hunting ammo separate from the cowboy ammo if both are 45's since the hi-pressure stuff could blow up the clone. Or you could get the BH in 44 mag just to keep them straight.
 
I have not read that particular article by Venturino, but I bet that's just the old journalistic hook to get your attention so you'll read the article. He has written many articles praising the 45 colt and indicates it's one of his favorites.
 
npcolin - Beretta bought Uberti and I believe the Stampede is pretty much an Uberti 1873 Cattleman. Please correct me you guys if I have misspoken here.

BTW, I have an Uberti Cattleman 1873 1st gen clone with blue and case hardened combination finish and a 7 1/2" bbl. Bought it used some time ago and it is absolutely beautiful. The action is smooth as silk and it's very accurate.

I have heard that Colt was buying parts from Uberti. Anybody know the truth of that assertion?
 
UUberti sold to Beretta. Uberti still makes their line of clones of Winchesters, Colts and Remingtons and S&Ws. Beretta made an attempt at a single action, the Stampede. The first generation Stampedes are known to be POJ. A big surprise considering Berettas reputation for quality. I have heard later models are functional. The Stampedes I have tried have been POJ. Venturino is known for his ammunition and reloading knowledge. I trust his facts and data. I am none too pleased with his writings though.
 
A couple of misc & ellaneous observations.
One: Replacing parts in a Colt-style SA is no more a matter of just dropping them in with a screwdriver than replacing parts with a Ruger. They still need to be fitted & timed for best results, there's just fewer of them.
Two: Venturino was being facetious with the title of that article (if the title was even his) & was just drawing readers in to the main points- there's more room than you need in a .45 Colt case with smokeless powders, and the .45 Auto Rim is a more efficient cartridge with smokeless.
Three: Colt is not buying parts from Uberti.
Four: Not all writers are biased, although writers are entitled to opinions just like everybody else.
Five: Venturino has bought, shot & sold more classic Colts than most of us will ever see in our entire lifetimes.
Six: Venturino has used the .45 Colt for years & is very familiar with it.
Seven: "Extra room" in a case can definitely affect the performance of a cartridge/bullet.
Eight: Patton recognized design and ballistics progression, that's why he also carried a .357 Magnum in later life.
Nine: Italian Peacemaker clones are always a gamble.
Ten: Hi Willie. :D
Denis
 
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