Ernie Bishop
New member
Well said.
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Sighting in Question
- Thread starter musicmatty
- Start date
musicmatty
New member
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,519
I wonder if it ever occurred to the op to shoot it at 100 yds and see where it hit's?
I’m doing my target shooting on private property. This property does offer 100 yard shot however the landscape doesn’t Present a clear target’ shot all the way out to 100 yards. So really I’m doing the best I can with what I have to work with.
Ernie Bishop
New member
Then, put the target as far away as possible.
Using the below web page, I plugged in the BC of that bullet (.218 per some notes I had made a couple years ago when doing some research for a friend), the rated muzzle velocity of that load (2390), an assumed scope height of 1.5", with zero wind, and it says that a 50-yard zero should hit about 0.32" inches low at 100 yards.
FWIW.
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/b...bf;Vel[x+y]~ft/s&lbl=&submitst=+Create+Chart+
FWIW.
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/b...bf;Vel[x+y]~ft/s&lbl=&submitst=+Create+Chart+
BTW, the Point Blank Range calculator at that web site calculates maximum PBR for a 4" target with that cartridge is 188 yards with a near zero range of 24 yards (zero it at 24 yards and it should hit within plus or minus 2" out to 188 yards).
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php?df=G1&bc=0.218&vi=2390&sh=1.5&ts=4
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php?df=G1&bc=0.218&vi=2390&sh=1.5&ts=4
Ernie Bishop
New member
It will all come down to your ability to keep it in the kill zone when shooting from hunting positions under stress.
It's a 30-30 get rid of the scope. learn the sights. That's hunting 101. The next rifle bolt action. Then get a scope. I ounce met a young guy that just bought a Marlin 30-30 and he put a scope on it and with a iron sight set of rings. I suggested get rid of the scope. He was mad. Oh well. The next day a nice buck came bounding through the woods and jumped right over him. He tried to shoot him at 4'. Heck he didn't have a chance with all those gizmos. Couldn't see and couldn't decide what to use. Dump the scope.
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It's a 30-30 get rid of the scope. learn the sights. That's hunting 101. The next rifle bolt action. Then get a scope. I ounce met a young guy that just bought a Marlin 30-30 and he put a scope on it and with a iron sight set of rings. I suggested get rid of the scope. He was mad. Oh well. The next day a nice buck came bounding through the woods and jumped right over him. He tried to shoot him at 4'. Heck he didn't have a chance with all those gizmos. Couldn't see and couldn't decide what to use. Dump the scope.
Going scopeless worked just fine when I was 30. Now that I'm 60 - forget it. Just wait until you get old.
I'm not a huge fan of red-dots for hunting. For one, a dot that is the right sized for a 100 yd shot will look huge on a 20 yd shot. Conversely, one that is the right size for a close shot will look very tiny at distance. Also, Murphy's law will catch up to you. You'll be in the blind and the buck of a lifetime will show up just when your red dot decides to die.
My own preference for a short and light rifle like a lever 30-30 is a lightweight 2-7 power scope. In fact, I've just put another Leupold like that on order yesterday to go on a backup rifle. At just under 12 oz, it won't unbalance your light rifle. When you are in a short-distance stand, keeping it set at 2x means that the only thing you won't be able to see is a VERY short-distance running deer - something it would be unethical to try and shoot anyway.
My own preference for a short and light rifle like a lever 30-30 is a lightweight 2-7 power scope. In fact, I've just put another Leupold like that on order yesterday to go on a backup rifle. At just under 12 oz, it won't unbalance your light rifle. When you are in a short-distance stand, keeping it set at 2x means that the only thing you won't be able to see is a VERY short-distance running deer - something it would be unethical to try and shoot anyway.
Don Fischer
New member
I'm not a huge fan of red-dots for hunting. For one, a dot that is the right sized for a 100 yd shot will look huge on a 20 yd shot. Conversely, one that is the right size for a close shot will look very tiny at distance. Also, Murphy's law will catch up to you. You'll be in the blind and the buck of a lifetime will show up just when your red dot decides to die.
My own preference for a short and light rifle like a lever 30-30 is a lightweight 2-7 power scope. In fact, I've just put another Leupold like that on order yesterday to go on a backup rifle. At just under 12 oz, it won't unbalance your light rifle. When you are in a short-distance stand, keeping it set at 2x means that the only thing you won't be able to see is a VERY short-distance running deer - something it would be unethical to try and shoot anyway.
I don't know where you'd get them anymore but my favorite rifle scope combo for yers was a Rem 660 with a 2 3/4x Redfield. Have a 308 now I've only sht cast in and it has a 1-4x Redfield. For hunting, I really like low power scope's. Yet easiest to find are 3-9x! I do have two new Redfield/Leupold's in 2-7x for hunting and do like them!
Ernie Bishop
New member
musicmatty,
Use the optic you want to use...Don't worry about others opinions.
Your rifle and your money.
Whatever you use, become proficient with it from the type of field rest you will use for hunting and enjoy yourself
Use the optic you want to use...Don't worry about others opinions.
Your rifle and your money.
Whatever you use, become proficient with it from the type of field rest you will use for hunting and enjoy yourself
musicmatty
New member
Problem solved. I was able to get 100 yard shot at the target and had virtually no drop after sighting in at 50 yards. The biggest factor here is probably the way the shooter See’s the the target with regards to dropping a quarter inch or half-inch or even an inch with this particular cartridge, I feel confident to say beyond 120 yards on out, that real compensation has to start being factored in.
What has me puzzled is this… After taking the rifle completely apart after last year‘s hunting season and giving it a deep cleaning, it definitely change the elevation of the scope after reassembling. Even though the scope was never removed from the barrel, the elevation had somehow changed causing it to shoot several inches high.
We all know that you’re never supposed to go back and torque down the screws in the mounting rings as that will pull the scope all out of alignment. I’m thinking more than anything, it had to be the big screw that sinks down through the tang in to the rear butt of the gun and that is what change the elevation. After reassembling and torquing that big screw back down through the tang, it must’ve change the elevation of the way the scope was sitting on the rifle.
What has me puzzled is this… After taking the rifle completely apart after last year‘s hunting season and giving it a deep cleaning, it definitely change the elevation of the scope after reassembling. Even though the scope was never removed from the barrel, the elevation had somehow changed causing it to shoot several inches high.
We all know that you’re never supposed to go back and torque down the screws in the mounting rings as that will pull the scope all out of alignment. I’m thinking more than anything, it had to be the big screw that sinks down through the tang in to the rear butt of the gun and that is what change the elevation. After reassembling and torquing that big screw back down through the tang, it must’ve change the elevation of the way the scope was sitting on the rifle.
Ernie Bishop
New member
Awesome Possum!
Don Fischer
New member
Problem solved. I was able to get 100 yard shot at the target and had virtually no drop after sighting in at 50 yards. The biggest factor here is probably the way the shooter See’s the the target with regards to dropping a quarter inch or half-inch or even an inch with this particular cartridge, I feel confident to say beyond 120 yards on out, that real compensation has to start being factored in.
What has me puzzled is this… After taking the rifle completely apart after last year‘s hunting season and giving it a deep cleaning, it definitely change the elevation of the scope after reassembling. Even though the scope was never removed from the barrel, the elevation had somehow changed causing it to shoot several inches high.
We all know that you’re never supposed to go back and torque down the screws in the mounting rings as that will pull the scope all out of alignment. I’m thinking more than anything, it had to be the big screw that sinks down through the tang in to the rear butt of the gun and that is what change the elevation. After reassembling and torquing that big screw back down through the tang, it must’ve change the elevation of the way the scope was sitting on the rifle.
If that rear tang screw is your problem, then you have an action bedding problem. Tighten both action screws down. Then loosen the front screw slowly while watching the action just in front of it or even the barrel at the front of the stock. You see any movement at all and your action needs bedded.
musicmatty
New member
If that rear tang screw is your problem, then you have an action bedding problem. Tighten both action screws down. Then loosen the front screw slowly while watching the action just in front of it or even the barrel at the front of the stock. You see any movement at all and your action needs bedded.
I don’t know if that was the problem… I’m just assuming. What I do know is this… Last year the rifle was dead on at 100 yards... This year it was several inches high when checking. The only thing I can think of is that something changed when I took the rifle completely apart for cleaning this past season… That’s something I haven’t done in 30 years was take this rifle completely apart.
bamaranger
New member
zero shift
Just for conversations sake, I'd highly suspect that the two barrel bands on the M94 would be highly suspect in a zero change. bearing directly on the barrel, and tying the barrel to the forearm and mag tube would be real factors in barrel harmonics. Usually though, M94's are not really put under the microscope for accuracy......minute of venison is usually sufficient.
BTW, I've never pulled a M94 completely down, but I've heard it is a real chore.
Finally, glad Doyle chimed in about iron sights. I used to brashly state, in this forum, "no scopes on your lever carbine" and then my eyes slipped as I got older. A peep helped for a while, and I can still manage a long barreled peep sighted rifle well enough, but scopes are the way for most w/ old man eyes.
Not to sidetrack the post, but I would agree that those goofy see thru mounts that put the scope about a foot above the action, are for the birds. My Dad put them on all his scoped rifles, he didn't trust scopes, and in his era, and for all he was willing to pay for one, I suppose it made a bit of sense. But these days, a perfectly reliable, repeatable , weather proof scope can be had for less than $200 (think used Leupold 4x) and a dandy new low powered variable for a bit over.
Heck, I put a low powered variable scope on a turkey SHOTGUN this spring, and I am here to tell you without reservation it was absolutely grim death on any gobbler unlucky enough to present a shot from 10 to 50 yds.
Just for conversations sake, I'd highly suspect that the two barrel bands on the M94 would be highly suspect in a zero change. bearing directly on the barrel, and tying the barrel to the forearm and mag tube would be real factors in barrel harmonics. Usually though, M94's are not really put under the microscope for accuracy......minute of venison is usually sufficient.
BTW, I've never pulled a M94 completely down, but I've heard it is a real chore.
Finally, glad Doyle chimed in about iron sights. I used to brashly state, in this forum, "no scopes on your lever carbine" and then my eyes slipped as I got older. A peep helped for a while, and I can still manage a long barreled peep sighted rifle well enough, but scopes are the way for most w/ old man eyes.
Not to sidetrack the post, but I would agree that those goofy see thru mounts that put the scope about a foot above the action, are for the birds. My Dad put them on all his scoped rifles, he didn't trust scopes, and in his era, and for all he was willing to pay for one, I suppose it made a bit of sense. But these days, a perfectly reliable, repeatable , weather proof scope can be had for less than $200 (think used Leupold 4x) and a dandy new low powered variable for a bit over.
Heck, I put a low powered variable scope on a turkey SHOTGUN this spring, and I am here to tell you without reservation it was absolutely grim death on any gobbler unlucky enough to present a shot from 10 to 50 yds.
Jim Watson
New member
I recall a gunzine article about "The Upside Down Rifle." A Marlin with a Zeiss scope that cost more than the gun. The ballistics and mechanical accuracy were good enough, the high end scope let the owner SEE his game in the early hours.