Sight picture questions

marine6680 said:
Sight picture will vary based on distance to the target and the load you are using.

A pistol that hits well with a 6 o-clock hold at 25yds, may need a standard hold at 7yds. (sight pic 2 above)

A pistol may use all three styles for different ranges.
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CORRECT!

Because the bullet trajectory does not align with the sight line, the point of impact on the target will vary from the point of aim depending on the range to the target.

Here's a test I did with one of my pistols awhile back.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503476

attachment.php


One look at that plot will make it clear that there's NO WAY for a pistol to shoot to exactly the same point of impact at different distances with the same point of aim.

It is possible to get a flatter trajectory than is shown in the picture, but there must be some variation in the point of impact due to trajectory differences as the range changes.
 
A 6 oclock hold is not uncommon at distances you're talking about.

Maybe I'm old school. In my professional training the 6 o'clock hold (also called "pumpkin on a post" or "lollipop hold") was well regarded as you can see the target. It helps me focus on the front sight post better. When I have to "cut" the target with the sight post its more difficult for me to focus on the sight post as I seem to bounce between it and the target.

At the end of the day it really is just personal preference though. I will say a lollipop hold is a fairly common, and often preferred, phenomenon.
 
That chart looks like it shows 5" of variation over 25 yds. My only point of reference is I remember 9" of drop at 100 yds.
Click to expand...
The amount of variation depends on how the gun is zeroed.

Most of the fixed sighted pistols I've had the opportunity to shoot are set up roughly like the one in the plot. They will hit below the point of aim at very close ranges, (inside 5 yards) with the bullets hitting just above the sight out to 10-15 yards and several inches high out around 20-25 yards.

But if you wanted to, you could zero the gun differently and get either more or less variation over that range depending on the relationship of the line of the sights to the bore line.

For example, in the link you posted, the pistol is zeroed for 25 yards (line of sight and point of aim coincide exactly at 25 yards) which keeps the midrange height quite low compared to the point of aim--under half an inch. This type of setup, however, precludes using a true 6 O'clock hold at any range since the bullet is never more than half an inch above the sights.

One could also zero the pistol for 100 yards which would result in quite a high midrange height.

Not having shot groups with that particular pistol past 25 yards I couldn't tell you where it is zeroed, but I can tell you from the 25 yard trajectory that the line of sight and point of aim will coincide exactly somewhere well past 25 yards. Maybe 50 yards or further.
 
I want the bullet hole to appear directly on top of the front sight. #2 in the diagram of sight pictures.

Factory Sigs hit where the dot is. Drives me nuts. I always switch out the front sight. I don’t want the front sight covering where I want the bullet to go. No biggie at 7-10 etc. at 50 yards, it’s covering the whole target.
 
Shooting a rifle I can go long but hand guns 25 yards is max for me , hands aren't as steady as they use to be .
 
For the last year or so I've been practicing shooting at 5-7 yards without using the sights. I've gotten pretty good at keeping all my shots on a piece of standard size paper rapid fire just point shooting. It's really not that hard to develop an instinct for this, actually reminds me a lot of shooting a bow, which I learned to do back in the 60's without sights. One thing I've noticed doing this, it doesn't seem to matter which pistol I'm shooting, the technique works pretty much the same.
 
Point or reflexive shooting is definitely a good technique to learn. But there's a distance at which transitioning to your sights is advantageous for the added accuracy.


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This is an excellent thread with great information. Many of the posts mention shooting at 25 yards. Is 25 yards a standard shooting distance for semi-autos (my Glock 17 and 30)? When I move my target to 25 yards I can barely see the target let alone the Bullseye to establish my sight picture.

I am using a B-16 25 yard slow fire pistol target with a center bull’s-eye 2.5 inches in diameter


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Being Armed Is A Mindset, Not A Physical Condition - Rob Pincus

NRA, GOA
 
25 yds is a typical distance at which handgun accuracy is compared. As for standard shooting distances, the average conflict with a pistol is often much, much closer. That said being able to make hits at distance with a pistol is still valuable.

I've used a B-16 at 25 yds with handguns. You don't even necessarily need to see the black circle very well. You can simply center your front post on or under, depending on the hold as we've discussed here, the center of the paper. Then press the trigger and check your work. In a handgun marksmanship class I did most of us were surprised at the groups we got on a black piece of paper by using that centering technique. Of course a consistent point of reference like the black circle does help, my point is it's not essential.
 
I use paper plates. Cheap. At 50 yards, I put them on a brown paper bag just so I can see them a little better. A white plate on a white target backer is damned near invisible to me now...

If I can keep the vast majority of my rounds on a paper plate, standing, at 50 yards, I’m good.
 
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