Sig will have internal locking devices for 2002

If that gives the gun makers some cover from lawsuits
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That’s what they think. If nothing else happen it will increase the lawsuits from trial lawyers

This system is bad for consumers and gun companies alike in a legal standpoint and this is the reason why.

With this system gun companies back themselves in a legal corner. If for any reason if this system fails the gun company will be liable. The primary purpose for this system is to prevent kids from blowing their heads off. This system will not prevent kids from blowing their heads off and the trial lawyers will have a field day with it.

Case in point:

Kid X comes into parent room. Pick up the gun and blow his head of thinking the gun was lock with the “integrated locking system”. You cannot rely on this system to protect your children. It is a flawed system that gives parents a sense of false safety. I would not be surprise to see a higher injury/death rate with gun that have this kind of system. A Cable lock is the best way IMO to lock a gun up. Just by looking at a gun with a cable lock running through it, one will know that: 1. there are no round in the chamber 2. there is no mag in the gun.

Case in point:

For some reason your “integrated locking system” gun was stolen from your house (or whatever location) and was use in a crime. The judge will ask you why your gun was not lock with the “integrated locking system”. Because the locking system is part of the gun and the trial lawyers will rape you for this. They will get as much money out of you as they can even if it’s not your fault that the gun was stolen. They are not going to sue a criminal that does not have a penny in his name, they going to sue you.
 
One step at a time......

The problem with locking devices, and trigger locks, and this, that and the other, is that many assume it will appease the gun-control crowd and save our gun rights.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

With each victory, the gun-control people will point to the consistent gun-related crime rate and decry that the measures that have been enacted aren't enough. They must take the next step to prevent all of these gun crimes. Eventually, after taking step after step after step, the gun-control advocates will finally say that they have tried and tried....nothing is working. The only answer left is to ban guns all toghether. After building their case, the liberal media will be able to help them achieve their ultimate goal.

IMHO, the only effective strategy is to fight them up front and prevent the tidal wave of momentum they will gain by constantly giving them what they want. Internal locks may seem harmless enough....in reality, it is just a step in a process that will eventually end gun rights for all of us. The only way to ever win is to resist at all costs and educate the middle-ground public to the fallacies of the arguments made by the gun-control people. We also must help the effort by electing people who will resist gun control legislation and the resulting multi-million dollar lawsuits against gun manufacturers (the real motivator behind the cowering of most manufacturers). An effective, Nationwide lobby...one that would actually do something (something different than the NRA), would also help greatly. We have several million potential members....politicians fear organized voters.

I always cringe when I read a post where someone says "...it doesn't bother me.....". That's exactly what they want. The thing you don't mind isn't the end...it's just a step.
 
I understand what you are saying, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I really don't think they are a problem and might reduce the liability of gun manufacturers.

Regarding the HK system specifically, the "key" is just a piece of metal with two small prongs. The guns are not "keyed" differently. If you have the "key" to an HK, that can be used to unlock any HK. The HK locking system prevents the slide from being retracted and, I think, prevents the hammer from being cocked as well.

I agree that I would not depend upon these systems for safe storage -- I use my gun safe for that.

M1911
 
M1911 is correct in both of his posts, the internal HK lock is completely unobtrusive and foolproof once deactivated.

If you really can't stand the thought of that device you can replace the locking lanyard block with the previous model lanyard block, they are interchangeable.

Personally I think those of you who want to eschew HK because of these devices are cutting your nose to spite your face.
 
Childish behavior.

I am pointing the flaws of these systems. Not once did I say that HK suck. If they are so reliable then why hasn’t LEO or the military use them? They won’t because like everything if you use it long enough it will break. That’s not my opinion it is a fact.

M1911 and I agree on something. We agree that this system is bad at protecting kids. If parents rely on this system then they are asking for a tragedy. How many time did you think that you lock the door but didn’t? Well this is the same thing. For God sake, if you’re a parent go buy a cable or external trigger lock. Do not depend on the “integrated safety system” to protect your kids.

If trial lawyers can get millions out of McDonald because of an old lady spilling hot coffee on herself, I don’t think they have a problem suing gun companies.
 
I wonder if you could permanently disable these locks so there would never be an accidental engagement. Would that look bad in court? Is leaving a pistol unlocked just as liable as having the lock removed if there was a ND? Pistol locks open up a whole new attack route for the anti-gunners. I can see it now, "Man shot by UNLOCKED assault automatic revolver"!! Well, it just lets SIg and the others have a "classic" line of pistols without all those new-fangled devices LAter.
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Are you serious?!?!?

I honestly can't think of one single situaton where this would even become a hint of an issue in court.:rolleyes:
 
BTW, the HK can still function with the lock engaged. It will still feed, fire, and eject rounds, but the hammer strut will be damaged. The lockout device only does one thing; it prevents movement of the hammer (which can easily be overcome by racking the slide with a little force).
 
I'm weird I guess

I don't have a problem with internal locking devices. This is not the end of the world that Sig has them for 2002.

They do help prevent accidental discharges when engaged. They also make the gun inopperable should a criminal steal it. This is assuming that the locks are well designed, but knowing Sig that is a somewhat safe assumption.

As long as we are not FORCED to legally keep it on all the time, I certainly don't mind internal locking devices. I'd even buy a Sig with that device in it (I won't be boycotting every company that puts them in).

My main nit-pick is that I prefer that the lock be out of site (so it doesn't look tacky). I hope Sig does in fact put the lock in a less noticable area, like the bottom of the butt. Don't put it on top or side of the slide, PLEASE Sig. ;)




Off topic:

My main problem is smart guns. Under no circumstances would I want a smart gun. I don't trust the technology, and I don't like the idea of a gun only being used by one person.
 
This will be my last post on this subject. I just wanted to point out the reliability of an "Integrated Safety System". Currently there is a post by Mr. Denfoote concerning his Taurus PT145 Frame. Taurus has been putting “Integrated Safety System” in their handguns for sometime now.

Mr. Denfoote pointed out that his Taurus PT145 frame cracked and from a later post that his extractor got mess up and needed a replacement. As to date he only put 650 rnds in his PT145. If these problems can happen you can bet your ass that the “Integrated Safety System” will fail. It’s only a matter of time. The sad part of it you won’t relies it until it is too late. The system might lock the gun up on you or God forbid unlock the gun without you knowing it.

Frame crack on the PT-145:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89362
 
Orlando said:

" I am pointing the flaws of these systems. Not once did I say that HK suck. If they are so reliable then why hasn't LEO or the military use them? They won't because like everything if you use it long enough it will break. That's not my opinion it is a fact. "

LEOs are using the HK USP complete with the locking device. The INS is currently issuing HK USPs to their plainclothes officers and authorizing them for their uniformed officers. Their HKs do have this locking system in place.

Regarding your concern about it breaking, realize again, that when you unlock the HK, that device is not in any way "active". It doesn't move or have to do anything for you to shoot. It just sits there. It isn't under spring tension. I can't envision any way in which it would break and thus disable your gun. I suggest you take a good close look at the device. Perhaps that will allay your concerns.

This isn't like Remington's new keyed safety on the 870, which apparently can get accidentally locked (though it's not supposed to be able to happen, people have reported that it has). I've heard of no such reports about the HK USPs system, and they've had it in production for well over a year now.

Orlando said:

"For God sake, if you?re a parent go buy a cable or external trigger lock. Do not depend on the ?integrated safety system? to protect your kids. "

HK supplies a cable lock with every USP. As I said, I use a safe.

Personally, I can't see how an integrated lock is much worse (or much better) than a cable lock or trigger lock. Any of these devices can be defeated. The cable lock can be defeated with simple pair of cutters. If you don't install a trigger lock tightly enough, you can still fire the gun even with the trigger lock installed (simply pull back on the trigger lock). Most lock boxes can be pried open or cut open with a sawzall. Most gun safes can be peeled open with an axe or sledge hammer and a pry bar.

M1911
 
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I agree that locking devices like HK uses aren't going to effect wether the gun works or not. I have an HK USP 45 with one so I know. Thats not the problem. The problem is that the gun company's like HK are caving into the politically correct notion that it will matter in regards to safety. This is a precedence for more of the same. Integrated key locks now,what next? Mandatory chamber load indicators? Finger print sensing devices? Electronic holsters? Magnetic rings? The state legislatue in CA allready tried to pass a law prohibiting the sale of any firearms in the state with out such devices. Its called defacto disarmament. So by catering to the anti-gun crowd these company's will hasten the disarmament of the common citizen.
 
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