sigarms228
New member
Good for SIG and they will sell a whole lot of the P365XL and I will be interested in trying one out. I expect we will see more of the same design from other manufacturers this year.
Sig Releasing a P365XL
- Thread starter Mackie244Bud
- Start date
wild cat mccane
New member
Sig loving website?
9 out of 10 posts from me is Walther has the best firearm in the PPQ/P99.
Can we all take a step back and think for a moment. Let's think about...I don't know...Kahr.
CM9/PM9=P365 is as small and holds nearly double the rounds with a better trigger and no huge take down lever.
P9/CW9=P365XL is as small and smaller while holding almost double the rounds with a better trigger and no huge take down lever.
Two versions of a P365 just made Kahr features obsolete.
Beretta?
APX Compact/Centurion and PX4c. P365XL holds just as much (only one less than the APXc) while being smaller overall.
Nano/APX Carry. No point. P365 is smaller and about double the round count. Also doesn't have the Nano trigger (dog crap).
See the game?
Full size? Sure. You win. Carry pistols? Everyone is going to have to change.
The PPS, Shields, LC9s, Nanos, CCP, G43...might be good...but...
9 out of 10 posts from me is Walther has the best firearm in the PPQ/P99.
Can we all take a step back and think for a moment. Let's think about...I don't know...Kahr.
CM9/PM9=P365 is as small and holds nearly double the rounds with a better trigger and no huge take down lever.
P9/CW9=P365XL is as small and smaller while holding almost double the rounds with a better trigger and no huge take down lever.
Two versions of a P365 just made Kahr features obsolete.
Beretta?
APX Compact/Centurion and PX4c. P365XL holds just as much (only one less than the APXc) while being smaller overall.
Nano/APX Carry. No point. P365 is smaller and about double the round count. Also doesn't have the Nano trigger (dog crap).
See the game?
Full size? Sure. You win. Carry pistols? Everyone is going to have to change.
The PPS, Shields, LC9s, Nanos, CCP, G43...might be good...but...
I really don't know if everyone is going to have to change. I think that's a bit of hyperbole. People are still buying other pistols (heck people are still buying J frames). The market didn't fall off a cliff when the P365 came out. I don't think it will with this either.
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I think the market is shifting toward higher capacities and red dot carry optics.
Soon, releasing a 9mm single stack that only holds 7 rounds will be like releasing a new car that has window cranks.
Do you NEED power windows? No, but the market will make the old ways obsolete.
Now, as I already have a Walther PPS RMS-C, well I spend hundreds more dollars to get a comparably sized gun that holds more ammunition? no, I love the one that I already have and I can carry 9 rounds plus a reload easily. Thanks to Sig oh, I guess soon I will be able to carry a gun the same size with 16 rounds in it, but I'm making the choice that 9 in a single load is sufficient for me. if I were ever to buy another single stack gun for whatever reason, I can't imagine I would buy anything other than one with more capacity.
Especially if I can move my existing Red Dot optic from one gun to the other
Soon, releasing a 9mm single stack that only holds 7 rounds will be like releasing a new car that has window cranks.
Do you NEED power windows? No, but the market will make the old ways obsolete.
Now, as I already have a Walther PPS RMS-C, well I spend hundreds more dollars to get a comparably sized gun that holds more ammunition? no, I love the one that I already have and I can carry 9 rounds plus a reload easily. Thanks to Sig oh, I guess soon I will be able to carry a gun the same size with 16 rounds in it, but I'm making the choice that 9 in a single load is sufficient for me. if I were ever to buy another single stack gun for whatever reason, I can't imagine I would buy anything other than one with more capacity.
Especially if I can move my existing Red Dot optic from one gun to the other
I don't personally see this as in the same ballpark as crank versus power windows, especially in the context of common usage. While I also think red dots on pistols will become more prominent, we're only just seeing more widespread use of red dots on duty pistols, much less concealed carry pistols. Power windows are practically expected on a car, in most cases you have to ask a dealer to find one without or order one that way. That's not true with red dots on pistols, as manufacturers are just starting to add optic cuts on more options (and I'm not convinced that these additions are because everyone buying such a pistol is immediately mounting a red dot but rather that it becomes a marketing attempt of another feature to differentiate themselves from or keep up with the competition). Red dots on pistols may well be the standard one day, but I don't think that day is what I'd term as "soon".
I think there's an important point to make here. This forum and most of us on it are a subset. We're the enthusiasts. That is not necessarily the majority of the buying market. Why would someone not buy a P365? Well, why can I find them in stock everywhere I look, a local store has them marked down to $450, and a local guy had to throw in extra magazines to sell his stock after the initial buyers? If it's such a leap forward in technology, why aren't they still all sold out? From LGSes I've talked to: price. A lot of the people that buy firearms, even carry pistols, aren't necessarily dedicated shooters. They see a $500 P365 and a $300 Shield and ask why spend more? Yes I know the P365 has night sights and a better trigger and better capacity, but again, my point is I think the people that care about those don't represent the majority of the market. As you yourself said:
For many people they're convinced that Shield or similar is "enough". Now for someone that shoots regularly, even a $200 price difference will disappear in ammo costs in not much time and as such those features are worth the premium. But that's not everyone (and I think the same argument can be applied to red dots on pistols where the optic can be a substantial percentage of the price of the firearm). As long as these high capacity options still remain a substantial price increase, percentage wise, over the competition I think we'll still see those other pistols making sales. Don't forget the market is soft right now and we're seeing record prices just to liquidate inventory. Higher cost is a harder sell than in years past.
I think there's an important point to make here. This forum and most of us on it are a subset. We're the enthusiasts. That is not necessarily the majority of the buying market. Why would someone not buy a P365? Well, why can I find them in stock everywhere I look, a local store has them marked down to $450, and a local guy had to throw in extra magazines to sell his stock after the initial buyers? If it's such a leap forward in technology, why aren't they still all sold out? From LGSes I've talked to: price. A lot of the people that buy firearms, even carry pistols, aren't necessarily dedicated shooters. They see a $500 P365 and a $300 Shield and ask why spend more? Yes I know the P365 has night sights and a better trigger and better capacity, but again, my point is I think the people that care about those don't represent the majority of the market. As you yourself said:
For many people they're convinced that Shield or similar is "enough". Now for someone that shoots regularly, even a $200 price difference will disappear in ammo costs in not much time and as such those features are worth the premium. But that's not everyone (and I think the same argument can be applied to red dots on pistols where the optic can be a substantial percentage of the price of the firearm). As long as these high capacity options still remain a substantial price increase, percentage wise, over the competition I think we'll still see those other pistols making sales. Don't forget the market is soft right now and we're seeing record prices just to liquidate inventory. Higher cost is a harder sell than in years past.
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Mackie244Bud
New member
^^^^^ Great Post TunnelRat!
I believe in a lot of what you said.
As far as P365's finally being available on LGS shelves..
I think that a lot of that can be where you live.
My local Bass Pro cannot keep the P365 on their shelves.
Every time I go there I ask if they have any P365's and they always say NO.
I am still waiting for the day that I walk in and they say "YES" though that will probably be because they just got their recent shipment and not because they are just sitting there dormant.
They say that as soon as they come in they go back out.
The same is still true for many LGS.
You know that they have to love to have a gun that sells like that especially as you say in this "Soft Market"
But I do know that thankfully it is much easier to obtain a P365 today than in the past.
However I live in South Florida with a large gun buying population.
Florida leads the Nation in Concealed Carry Licenses at over 2 million.
It should take awhile before they are saturated with P365's
You also have to remember that It has taken almost 400,000 sales in 18 months to finally have a P365 available on a consistent basis...
Sig reps have said that the P365 Manual Safety (MS) is slower to market because Sig is still trying to fulfill P365 orders.
Now Sig has the P365 MS and the P365XL waiting in the wings for release.
In the future there will be the new Shield / P365 "Hottest" gun to hit the market.
The same way S&W had their amazing ride with the Shield (and probably still enjoy good sales of it) so is Sig riding theirs now with the P365, P320 and Army Contracts.
It's just the way markets in general go..whether it's TV's or Cars or Guns!
Yes today seems to be all about Capacity and Features in EDC.
Hence the P365XL..
As far as the Optics cut on the new XL..
I do not know how many people will actually put a Red Dot on it today but who knows about the future.
In regard to options and pricing as Red Dot's continue to grow,
it helps give it a "Future Proof" Feature..
It's there if you ever need it.
The longer Slide which is never a bad thing as with Concealed Carry it goes downward and does not implicate printing.
The Flat Trigger and Longer Grip that includes the 12 rounds flush.
All for $79.99 considering that the P365 goes for $499.99 and the P365XL is a Pre-Order for $579.99.
If you were waiting to purchase a P365 it's now a no brainer to get the XL.
For myself that already has a P365 I can upgrade the Grip Module by simply moving the FCU to the new Grip (P365 Grips are going for $15.99)
Sig's Flat Trigger is $50.00 That's $65.99 and I have the XL Lower.
I also own five 12 round magazines.
Sig is selling the Floorplates for their X-Series magazines at $9 each so fifty dollars converts my 12 round magazines to Flush fit 12's for the XL Grip.
So it boils down to the Slide...Do I need the .6 inch length and the Optics cut?
That is the only decision to make between upgrading my P365 or buying a complete P365 XL.
I've had my P320 Compact RX for 2 years...I just Purchased the new "X-Compact Grip Module" moved my Fire Control Unit (FCU) and RX slide over to it and I now have a "P320 X-Compact RX"
It is a similar option that I have with the new XL.
For myself that means that I like Capacity, Features and "Options" with those platforms!
To me that IS a no Brainer unless the guns just Shoot and Perform Bad and they do not..
So far I have 3,000 error free rounds through my RX and 365
What's NOT to LIKE?
I understand that there are Glock Lovers such as USNRet93.
In fact a friend of mine showed off his new G19C Gen 5 to me yesterday beaming from ear to ear and I showed him my X-Compact RX which he said "Hey I like this Grip, can I put a Romeo 1 on my Glock?"
Just 2 guys talking guns and Very Happy with theirs and the others Gun.
It's a Good Thing!
So...I just don't get USNRet93's wish to just bash Sig or probably anything but his beloved Glock!
I wonder how that meeting of friends with him would have gone yesterday..Lord knows what he would have said about my Sig.
I think that's like Blinders on a horse..you never get to see and experience the whole picture.
I like to think that WE are all enthusiasts Yes I own Sig's & M&P but I have nothing against any gun..Well most Guns LOL.
I've always said that I think Hickok45 and reviewers like him has a great job..I'd love to be able to shoot so many different guns!
Not just Sig's.
I look forward to the new 365XL.
I also look forward to whatever gun knocks the P365 off of it's EDC perch and is next in line after the Shield, P365 and ?????
Because guess what WE ALL Win from that! It's a Good Thing Fer Sure!
In the end isn't that what it is all about?
Oh..It does not have to be a Sig LOL!
That's it for now.
I believe in a lot of what you said.
As far as P365's finally being available on LGS shelves..
I think that a lot of that can be where you live.
My local Bass Pro cannot keep the P365 on their shelves.
Every time I go there I ask if they have any P365's and they always say NO.
I am still waiting for the day that I walk in and they say "YES" though that will probably be because they just got their recent shipment and not because they are just sitting there dormant.
They say that as soon as they come in they go back out.
The same is still true for many LGS.
You know that they have to love to have a gun that sells like that especially as you say in this "Soft Market"
But I do know that thankfully it is much easier to obtain a P365 today than in the past.
However I live in South Florida with a large gun buying population.
Florida leads the Nation in Concealed Carry Licenses at over 2 million.
It should take awhile before they are saturated with P365's
You also have to remember that It has taken almost 400,000 sales in 18 months to finally have a P365 available on a consistent basis...
Sig reps have said that the P365 Manual Safety (MS) is slower to market because Sig is still trying to fulfill P365 orders.
Now Sig has the P365 MS and the P365XL waiting in the wings for release.
In the future there will be the new Shield / P365 "Hottest" gun to hit the market.
The same way S&W had their amazing ride with the Shield (and probably still enjoy good sales of it) so is Sig riding theirs now with the P365, P320 and Army Contracts.
It's just the way markets in general go..whether it's TV's or Cars or Guns!
Yes today seems to be all about Capacity and Features in EDC.
Hence the P365XL..
As far as the Optics cut on the new XL..
I do not know how many people will actually put a Red Dot on it today but who knows about the future.
In regard to options and pricing as Red Dot's continue to grow,
it helps give it a "Future Proof" Feature..
It's there if you ever need it.
The longer Slide which is never a bad thing as with Concealed Carry it goes downward and does not implicate printing.
The Flat Trigger and Longer Grip that includes the 12 rounds flush.
All for $79.99 considering that the P365 goes for $499.99 and the P365XL is a Pre-Order for $579.99.
If you were waiting to purchase a P365 it's now a no brainer to get the XL.
For myself that already has a P365 I can upgrade the Grip Module by simply moving the FCU to the new Grip (P365 Grips are going for $15.99)
Sig's Flat Trigger is $50.00 That's $65.99 and I have the XL Lower.
I also own five 12 round magazines.
Sig is selling the Floorplates for their X-Series magazines at $9 each so fifty dollars converts my 12 round magazines to Flush fit 12's for the XL Grip.
So it boils down to the Slide...Do I need the .6 inch length and the Optics cut?
That is the only decision to make between upgrading my P365 or buying a complete P365 XL.
I've had my P320 Compact RX for 2 years...I just Purchased the new "X-Compact Grip Module" moved my Fire Control Unit (FCU) and RX slide over to it and I now have a "P320 X-Compact RX"
It is a similar option that I have with the new XL.
For myself that means that I like Capacity, Features and "Options" with those platforms!
To me that IS a no Brainer unless the guns just Shoot and Perform Bad and they do not..
So far I have 3,000 error free rounds through my RX and 365
What's NOT to LIKE?
I understand that there are Glock Lovers such as USNRet93.
In fact a friend of mine showed off his new G19C Gen 5 to me yesterday beaming from ear to ear and I showed him my X-Compact RX which he said "Hey I like this Grip, can I put a Romeo 1 on my Glock?"
Just 2 guys talking guns and Very Happy with theirs and the others Gun.
It's a Good Thing!
So...I just don't get USNRet93's wish to just bash Sig or probably anything but his beloved Glock!
I wonder how that meeting of friends with him would have gone yesterday..Lord knows what he would have said about my Sig.
I think that's like Blinders on a horse..you never get to see and experience the whole picture.
I like to think that WE are all enthusiasts Yes I own Sig's & M&P but I have nothing against any gun..Well most Guns LOL.
I've always said that I think Hickok45 and reviewers like him has a great job..I'd love to be able to shoot so many different guns!
Not just Sig's.
I look forward to the new 365XL.
I also look forward to whatever gun knocks the P365 off of it's EDC perch and is next in line after the Shield, P365 and ?????
Because guess what WE ALL Win from that! It's a Good Thing Fer Sure!
In the end isn't that what it is all about?
Oh..It does not have to be a Sig LOL!
That's it for now.
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Actually happened with a local LEO who is a Sig fanboy(his 320)..I said, "VERY nice handgun"(didn't get to shoot it), I think I said 'sweet', "but ya know, I prefer the 'feel' and such of my Glock 17", "but really nice".....plus pretty sure he got a LEO discount...
I really care zero about what anybody but me has, carries, uses, buys, sells, gives away but still looking for that 'what I hate about Sig' thread...maybe ya missed the 'what I hate about Glocks', thread...
But sure seems a 'pro sig' and 'anti Glock' bias(small 'b') on this forum..but discussion forum, yes? Discussing...BUT, Doesn't bother me at all...many subsections of this forum are interesting, informative, and even 'head scratching'...It's mostly entertainment...
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Mackie244Bud
New member
Well I just counted the threads in the Semi Auto section out of 50 threads 6 discuss a Sig.
I have always thought of the Firing Line Forum as anything BUT Pro Sig!
This thread is about a Sig P365XL and you were the only person that interjected anything about a Glock.
Do you go to the Glock Threads and interject Sig Posts? LOL
I did like your..
Now that was funny!
So, your the comedy relief for this thread?
And here all this time I just thought you were being a Smarta_ _
You are so misunderstood...Sorry..
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Tee hee...I don't really care if you think I'm misunderstood or not..BTW--I HAVE handled the 238, 365, 320..didn't care for any of them...but lots do, good for them.
Nope, plenty of others already do that...
-Glock 42, 43, 19, 17..I guess I need to put that in my signature like some do
https://www.policemag.com/363154/south-carolina-pd-transitions-to-sig-p320-and-p365-pistols
Now the P365XL makes total sense. In producing a duty sized variant of the P365, SIG gives Law Enforcement a package that is tough to beat in capability and logistics.
There will always be people that get personally attached to inanimate objects and then wear their hearts on their sleeves when it comes to comments about those objects. Compared to other forums I don't personally find this one notably biased.
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That article doesn't mention the XL though, and the picture appears to be the standard P365. Are you saying instead of adopting two pistols they'd just adopt the one? If it was just going to be in a duty holster though with a P320 you have the option of even higher capacity magazines, full size light mounting that isn't proprietary, etc. Though you do have to have trained armorers, parts, holsters, etc. for two pistols if you run both. Hmm.
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You are correct but that observation has NOTHING to do with the fact:
You do realize this entire thread is about speculating about a new design that has yet to be released and we have little to no information about?????
SIG has been offering the P320/P365 as a package to LE departments seeking to upgrade their pistols.
In offering a P365XL/P365 package they offer the same capability with much better logistics while freeing P320 production up for the Military Contracts.
Looks like the XL can run all the accessories, It already has a 15 rd magazine and I willing to bet increasing that capacity is not a major design issue.
For Example:
https://www.sixaxisdev.com/products/sig-p365-front-rail-conversion
Accessories are just not a limiting factor.
Your last part holds true about the logistics.
Armorer training, tooling, and parts supply would be streamlined with all the commonality producing significant savings on the logistical end. They will probably be able to afford the 30 bucks for a rail conversion and still be saving money without eliminating capability.
sigarms228
New member
It is good to see more options in the thin 9MM poly frame pistol. I really like my Walther PPS and CCW it often with 7 round magazine and it is a good shooter for me. I would not mind a pistol of the same dimensions with more capacity if it fits me well so I can shoot it well. I tried the P365 and it does not work for me because the trigger reach is too short and I expect the P365XL will be the same but will certainly try it out when it becomes available and I expect other companies will come out with similar. I like shooting the Glock 43X but still not up to shooting standard for me of my PPS which is the original model with large backstrap that Walther does not offer any more on the current model.
I will say that I while I certainly think these slim 9MM pistols offer a high degree of comfort/high conceal factor for CCW, for me I find that a Glock 19 sized pistol with its extra width and weight is much better for me for longer shooting sessions and recoil control/accuracy especially at speed and still is relatively comfortable and easy to conceal for CCW. I don't believe I will ever move away from my Glock 19 as my main CCW pistol because of that and concerns of how these smaller pistols will be as far as reliability and durability with high round counts through them, tens of thousands of rounds. All these choices sure are a good thing.
I will say that I while I certainly think these slim 9MM pistols offer a high degree of comfort/high conceal factor for CCW, for me I find that a Glock 19 sized pistol with its extra width and weight is much better for me for longer shooting sessions and recoil control/accuracy especially at speed and still is relatively comfortable and easy to conceal for CCW. I don't believe I will ever move away from my Glock 19 as my main CCW pistol because of that and concerns of how these smaller pistols will be as far as reliability and durability with high round counts through them, tens of thousands of rounds. All these choices sure are a good thing.
Ditto this, including the PPS
(Although for me, the M2 is perfectly sized). If "shooting well" is my top priority, I want a gun that fits my hand. Glock 19 does that pretty well. Walther PPQ does it even better. I can run those better and faster than any single stack. 15 rounds in a gun I can't shoot well are far less valuable than 5 rounds in a gun I'm precise with. Clearly there are trades.
I like the way things are shaping up. Right now, today, if Walther began selling a PPS M3 that had an optic cut and the P365XL capacity, yeah, I'd upgrade. I'll have to wait and see whether this new Sig is something that knocks my socks off. I couldn't shoot the original all that well, but from what I'm reading they've beefed up the grip just a bit, and perhaps these dimensions will fit my hand better? We'll see.
OhioGuy, are you aware that Walther sells a PPS which comes with an installed small version of the Shield reflex sight? (In this case, Shield is a brand name for a UK-made optical sight; nothing to do with S&W's little pistol.)
I have that one and it is my favorite small 9mm, chosen over the P365, the Shield, the G43. Can't say about the Ruger EC9 or LC9, or the new Mossberg pistol as I have not fired them. Haven't even see a Mossberg yet.
I'm still sorting out the holster issue as the optical sight prevents a fit in many holsters. It may be Kydex cutting time.
Bart Noir
I have that one and it is my favorite small 9mm, chosen over the P365, the Shield, the G43. Can't say about the Ruger EC9 or LC9, or the new Mossberg pistol as I have not fired them. Haven't even see a Mossberg yet.
I'm still sorting out the holster issue as the optical sight prevents a fit in many holsters. It may be Kydex cutting time.
Bart Noir
wild cat mccane
New member
It's not vapor ware. It's coming out.
UPC: 798681618798
UPC: 798681618798