Sig P320 chosen for OK Highway Patrol

[dogtown tom]

marine6680 Also those questions where rhetorical... They were to make a point... They were not serious.

It seems you completely missed my point.

Which is it...."not serious" or "to make a point"?

My point was... At what point is it a gun, and at what point is it parts... This is something that must be defined...

Good grief.
I gave you the ATF definition of "firearm" and "firearm frame or receiver".

Say you have an AR... You want to replace the barrel or stock.. . You can do so easily, as those parts are not considered the "gun"... You do not need a background check to buy a new barrel or stock.


Say a part breaks in the bolt.. You can buy a replacement part easily, as that part is not the" gun".

No kidding.

Also, that such a definition must exist due to criminal law... Without a definition of "what is a gun" a person could have a gun part (say an AR bolt) in their pocket... Get stopped and searched by the police, and could be arrested for "having an illegally concealed firearm". You need the definition to point to, something you can use to ensure the law is followed, and that ambiguity can not creep in (as much as possible) and cause stupid situations like the one I described.

Never read a shred of the National Firearms Act, Gun Control Act or any ATF regulation have you?

I linked to ATF regs in my first post.

This in contrast to some countries, where on an AR, the upper or barrel is also serialized, and is considered part of the gun, meaning upper swaps are a no go without going through the paperwork that country requires. Some countries have limits on how many you can own, and an upper would still count as a firearm against that limit even though it had no lower and could not function. If you bought the upper and lower separately, it would count as two firearms due to having two different serial numbers.

But we aren't talking about "some countries" are we?

Yes some firearms makers put the serial number in multiple places, (seems it mostly European makers, who do more business in countries that require such marking) but in US law, it has guidelines on what parts constitute the firearm and are therefore suitable for serializing as the "firearm"... It has to be a main frame/receiver part that holds the action or FCG. So you couldn't mark the barrel and claim that is the "gun".

Didn't read anything I quoted did you?

What I wrote was shorthand for that complicated idea...

There is nothing complicated about ATF regulations.

Where I left out extraneous info in order to prevent confusion. So by "serialized part", I meant "the only serialized part that matters for purposes of the law".

Imprecise language causes confusion.

 

[dogtown tom]

marine6680 My reply was originally prompted by the poster who did not accept the internal frame as the "gun".

The Sig 320 does not have an "internal frame".....Sig (as well as KelTec and others) obtained a ruling from ATF Technical Branch to classify the "fire control group" as the firearm receiver.

It was an effort to explain why you can't just point to a gun and say "that's a gun".

If you point to a gun............it is a gun.

Why is it a gun? Because it can be made to readily fire by simply supplying the proper ammunition?

Because it meets the ATF definition of "firearm" or "firearm frame or receiver"

What if I remove the hammer... It can no longer be made to fire readily... Is it still a "gun"?

Stop it.
Just read some ATF regs before you dig your hole deeper.

If so, how many parts do I need to remove until it isn't a gun?

The only point you have made so far is showing how little you know about Federal firearms law and ATF regulations.

Half? No, it's still a gun? Well what about the other half of the parts, are they a gun too? The same gun? A different gun?

Please stop with the rhetorical, nonsensical, making a point nonsense.

In a world without background checks or laws/crimes involving guns, then it wouldn't matter, as no ramifications would exist surrounding the object we choose or don't choose to call a gun.

Huh?

 

[TunnelRat]

Wow, someone really went off the rails I see.

 

[rt11002003]

Guys.............................

 

[marine6680]

Rails?
Me or him?


I understand the rules... some don't, and I was attempting to explain the logic of it for their benefit.

But some want to read things out of context or willfully ignorant of the points or meaning of what is said. Even turning things into false dichotomies...


An explanation of the concept, and not the actual regulations.

 

[JohnKSa]

Op is free to start another post about the SIG P320.

I'm afraid to leave this one open to see what happens.