I'm narrowed my choice to these to 45's (to be used for home defense and target shooting: I already have a CCW). I plan on testing these at a local range, but I'd like to hear your opinions on which pistol you prefer. They both feel good in my hand. I have a USP Compact 40, so I lean to the Sig just to have something different. However, I like the fact that the USP holds 10 rounds. Anyway, any comments are welcome.
Sig P220 vs HK USP 45
- Thread starter Pipper
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Hmmm... If they both feel good in your hand then this is tough.. The HK will be more durable and tougher, but the Sig will definately have a better trigger pull. You already have an HK, so I can understand your preference to get something new. But I would say stick with another HK because then the controls are the same and things will be much more instinctive for you.. Especially the magazine release, which is totally different between a Sig and HK...
Pipper, I have both the Sig and HK. They are both great guns, I like my Sig a bit better as it fits my hand a bit better as for trigger the HK came from the factory really nice Sig is not bad either. As for accuracy it is all in the shooter, but both are real accurate. The only problem i have had is i do my own reloading and the bullet i use was not seating in the HK (have had Sig since '91) made the adjustment and shoots fine now. As for the issue of 10 rnds vs 7 rnds SHOT PLACEMENT is everything and if you can't down them in 7 well then... Anyhow go with the one that fits the hand and you feel comfortable with. They are both fine weapons.
Happy shooting!!
Happy shooting!!
I couldn't make up my mine either, so I bought both.
The H&K is the everyday by the nightstand gun.
The Sig is the target/carry?/nice pistol on sunday gun.
If I really had to choose between the two, I'd go with the H&K.
Both shoot good, with the Sig being accurate almost beyond belief.
Go with what feels good in your hand!
The H&K is the everyday by the nightstand gun.
The Sig is the target/carry?/nice pistol on sunday gun.
If I really had to choose between the two, I'd go with the H&K.
Both shoot good, with the Sig being accurate almost beyond belief.
Go with what feels good in your hand!
Sambonator
New member
The Sig will probably be easier to CCW. You can get 12 round "supposedly preban" HK USP .45 magazines from KY Imports (www.kyimports.com), and I've seen them at gun shows as well.
The HK is much more durable. It can digest thousands of +P+ ammo without problems. It can also safely fire the Triton .45 Super ammo with no modifications. I got a slightly stronger Wolff spring for mine, to shoot .45 super. I'm waiting for my shipment of the ammo to arrive.
I also got a compensated barrel from Fire Dragon Pistol Accessories (www.norecoil.com). Its a fun gun with which to customize and experiment.
The HK is much more durable. It can digest thousands of +P+ ammo without problems. It can also safely fire the Triton .45 Super ammo with no modifications. I got a slightly stronger Wolff spring for mine, to shoot .45 super. I'm waiting for my shipment of the ammo to arrive.
I also got a compensated barrel from Fire Dragon Pistol Accessories (www.norecoil.com). Its a fun gun with which to customize and experiment.
Pipper,
On the counter, set both side by side. Now pick them up and with permission, point and dry fire them. Now, honestly Piper, what do you think is best? Like I said before, rough and heavy trigger can be corrected. The guy who did mine made it THE BEST trigger double/single trigger pull I've ever tried, bar none.
If you can't afford the 220 yet, wait and save a little longer. I know you'll find it worth it. Email me if you have any more Qs.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
On the counter, set both side by side. Now pick them up and with permission, point and dry fire them. Now, honestly Piper, what do you think is best? Like I said before, rough and heavy trigger can be corrected. The guy who did mine made it THE BEST trigger double/single trigger pull I've ever tried, bar none.
If you can't afford the 220 yet, wait and save a little longer. I know you'll find it worth it. Email me if you have any more Qs.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
Thanks for all the help!
Another question, though: which gun do you feel has the most manageble (least felt) recoil? I understand that the USP has the "recoil reduction" system, but do you believe that it actually reduces felt recoil? If so, is the HK more manageable than the Sig in this regard, or does it really matter?
Thanks
Another question, though: which gun do you feel has the most manageble (least felt) recoil? I understand that the USP has the "recoil reduction" system, but do you believe that it actually reduces felt recoil? If so, is the HK more manageable than the Sig in this regard, or does it really matter?
Thanks
In regards to this last question....
When I first started shooting handguns, I was wondering the same thing. I guess it had to do with what I heard a lot of guys talk about as they would brag about how they shot big caliber, heavy recoiling .44s and such. My concern was also due to what some gun magazine writers would say when comparing gun "a" to gun "b".
As I shot more and more guns, friends, family, rentals, etc., I found that the little bit of difference in felt recoil wasn't such a big deal after all. Whatever I pick up now, feels about the same in the recoil dept. I guess over time, with practice, a person with good hearing protection to start with, tends to ignor the "kick" and concentrate on the sights, trigger squeeze and target instead. I've shot .454, .44 mag, .45s, and little 9mms. There is some difference, but I have to consciously try to be aware of it to really notice recoil. I've got average, not beefy, hands, yet have never experienced pain in an average shooting session. I've talked to other shooters who feel the same. Even my petite 98 pound sweet heart can shoot the big guns with out pain to her hand. But she does have a hard time reaching some triggers. We started out with a .22 lr, then went to 9mm, when used to that she shot .45 w/no problems, and so forth.... Good hearing protection helps against flinch. She loves her Sig. Its a customized 225 with a sweet trigger that's light enough and easy to reach for her. Recoils no issue w/her any more. Other than grip size, she shoots the .45 220 the same.
The only concern I would have in regard to recoil is muzzle flip recovery. I don't have a HK so I can't speak from experience with it. I do think the bore is closer to the hand, so it might just be a few hundreths of a second faster sight recovery, (following recoil "muzzle flip"). I think that the most important thing is, which fits your hand and points best. You say you already have a concealed carry pistol? Which one has a grip angle and controls that compares most closely to the one you carry? These are questions that you can answer better than any expert can. If you aren't sure, I would recommend; with the gunshop owners permission, (call first), ask if you can bring your unloaded pistol in so that you can compare it to the models that you are thinking about buying. Most wouldn't mind. Put them side by side. Handle them and spend as much time as you need to figure it out. I'm sure you'll pick the best one for you.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
When I first started shooting handguns, I was wondering the same thing. I guess it had to do with what I heard a lot of guys talk about as they would brag about how they shot big caliber, heavy recoiling .44s and such. My concern was also due to what some gun magazine writers would say when comparing gun "a" to gun "b".
As I shot more and more guns, friends, family, rentals, etc., I found that the little bit of difference in felt recoil wasn't such a big deal after all. Whatever I pick up now, feels about the same in the recoil dept. I guess over time, with practice, a person with good hearing protection to start with, tends to ignor the "kick" and concentrate on the sights, trigger squeeze and target instead. I've shot .454, .44 mag, .45s, and little 9mms. There is some difference, but I have to consciously try to be aware of it to really notice recoil. I've got average, not beefy, hands, yet have never experienced pain in an average shooting session. I've talked to other shooters who feel the same. Even my petite 98 pound sweet heart can shoot the big guns with out pain to her hand. But she does have a hard time reaching some triggers. We started out with a .22 lr, then went to 9mm, when used to that she shot .45 w/no problems, and so forth.... Good hearing protection helps against flinch. She loves her Sig. Its a customized 225 with a sweet trigger that's light enough and easy to reach for her. Recoils no issue w/her any more. Other than grip size, she shoots the .45 220 the same.
The only concern I would have in regard to recoil is muzzle flip recovery. I don't have a HK so I can't speak from experience with it. I do think the bore is closer to the hand, so it might just be a few hundreths of a second faster sight recovery, (following recoil "muzzle flip"). I think that the most important thing is, which fits your hand and points best. You say you already have a concealed carry pistol? Which one has a grip angle and controls that compares most closely to the one you carry? These are questions that you can answer better than any expert can. If you aren't sure, I would recommend; with the gunshop owners permission, (call first), ask if you can bring your unloaded pistol in so that you can compare it to the models that you are thinking about buying. Most wouldn't mind. Put them side by side. Handle them and spend as much time as you need to figure it out. I'm sure you'll pick the best one for you.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
Greetings; I also own both. The Sig P220A
is a shooter; right out of the box capable
of one and a half inch group's at 25 yards.
My H&K won't do that? It is a full size USP
.45ACP. I would have to favor the Sig for
home defense, CCW, target shooting, plinking
and certainly personal protection. Sig's are
reliable; even in sub-zero conditions !!!!
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Ala Dan
is a shooter; right out of the box capable
of one and a half inch group's at 25 yards.
My H&K won't do that? It is a full size USP
.45ACP. I would have to favor the Sig for
home defense, CCW, target shooting, plinking
and certainly personal protection. Sig's are
reliable; even in sub-zero conditions !!!!
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Ala Dan
James Montes
New member
The SIG P220 is the best .45acp DA/SA pistol in the world, second only to a customized 1911!!! HK is the best subgun and assault weapons manufacturer but that is it... The USP series of handguns are somewhat lacking in comparison to the SIG Series of handguns... former HK rep. expressed to me that the USPs were made for the civilian market to prevent that firms extinction from the civilian market on the North American Continent...
Think about it...
What else can a civilian purchase from HK at a reasonable price? P7 for $1k+, a Pre-ban assault rifle at the going rate of about $2500... not viable for us blue collars...
The military (spec-ops) and law enforcement (swat-units) agencies are the only institutions with access to the "real" HK products! I hate to offend any USP fans but you are paying for the HK name when you spend your hard earned $$$ on the USP. Shot it and I am not impressed! SIG SAUER is primarily a handgun manufacturer with the civilian handgun owner in mind, Their series of pistols are the best handguns you can get for the $$$ out of the box. In conclusion the SIG P220 with 8+1 fire power (more than enough)is the way to go...
NUFF SAID.
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 15, 1999).]
Think about it...
What else can a civilian purchase from HK at a reasonable price? P7 for $1k+, a Pre-ban assault rifle at the going rate of about $2500... not viable for us blue collars...
The military (spec-ops) and law enforcement (swat-units) agencies are the only institutions with access to the "real" HK products! I hate to offend any USP fans but you are paying for the HK name when you spend your hard earned $$$ on the USP. Shot it and I am not impressed! SIG SAUER is primarily a handgun manufacturer with the civilian handgun owner in mind, Their series of pistols are the best handguns you can get for the $$$ out of the box. In conclusion the SIG P220 with 8+1 fire power (more than enough)is the way to go...
NUFF SAID.
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 15, 1999).]
oberkommando
New member
Monte what was SOCOM designed for? Where did USP come from, should add 2 and 2 to get 4.
1911 forever.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
1911 forever.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
In this one case - I would take the Sig. Better social looks and trigger... You dont sound like you need it to leap tall buildings and all that.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
What do I get with that clunky H&K?
You get good reliability.(Also with the Sig)
You get good accuracy.(Actually a little better with the Sig)
You get a tough scratch and rust resistent frame. (You get-a nice looking Sig)
Sigs are very nice and H&Ks are very nice.
You can't go wrong.
Recoil is a moot issue-you'll get used to it.
George, I am surprised...
H&Ks forever.....
You get good reliability.(Also with the Sig)
You get good accuracy.(Actually a little better with the Sig)
You get a tough scratch and rust resistent frame. (You get-a nice looking Sig)
Sigs are very nice and H&Ks are very nice.
You can't go wrong.
Recoil is a moot issue-you'll get used to it.
George, I am surprised...
H&Ks forever.....
James Montes
New member
To: oberkommando
Don't believe the HK hype!!!
The HK SOCOM gun is a rarely if ever encountered pistol in the SPEC OPS world. Standard issue for SEALs is SIG P226 in 9mm, Army Delts get Stipends to purchase Custom 1911s, others use the less than desirable M9 aka Beretta 92F...
The pistol is a very limited weapon (LAST RESORT!)in SOCOM or any other MIL community, the long arm most noteably the M4 carbine and heavy machine guns (i.e. M60 and S.A.W.) dominate the SOCOM craft! Would you go to WAR with a PISTOL? 2 - 2 = 0...
My $00.02...
Nice to see someone is out there...
And all opinions are welcome oberkommando!
Sig 220 better choice than HK USP!!!
1911 forever indeed!!! Its been stopping men dead in their tracks for almost 100yrs!!!
In high in sight SEALs this Delta that, lets keep it in civilian terms here...
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SURE SHOT
Don't believe the HK hype!!!
The HK SOCOM gun is a rarely if ever encountered pistol in the SPEC OPS world. Standard issue for SEALs is SIG P226 in 9mm, Army Delts get Stipends to purchase Custom 1911s, others use the less than desirable M9 aka Beretta 92F...
The pistol is a very limited weapon (LAST RESORT!)in SOCOM or any other MIL community, the long arm most noteably the M4 carbine and heavy machine guns (i.e. M60 and S.A.W.) dominate the SOCOM craft! Would you go to WAR with a PISTOL? 2 - 2 = 0...
My $00.02...
Nice to see someone is out there...
And all opinions are welcome oberkommando!
Sig 220 better choice than HK USP!!!
1911 forever indeed!!! Its been stopping men dead in their tracks for almost 100yrs!!!
In high in sight SEALs this Delta that, lets keep it in civilian terms here...
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SURE SHOT
I also own both.
I own 4 H&Ks & one SigP220, but have had another (European) P220 that I sold.
I love H&Ks, especially my P7M8s.
BUT...
The Sig is more accurate, it's flatter & easier to conceal, and it has an excellent DA trigger as well as an excellent SA trigger.
Two of my H&Ks are USP .45Compacts, and the main reason I own them is because I'm left-handed, and can carry them "cocked & locked" without the need for an ambidextrous (less safe) safety. They're very good guns, but they're not as compact as the P220, being considerably bulkier due to the slide width. My experience shows them to have less intrinsic accuracy & less practical accuracy than the SigP220, and while they're plenty "combat accurate", I want all the accuracy I can get, period. The P220 is also more precise (the tendency for all shots to go through the same hole) than the USP. It's true that the USPs are "over-engineered", in the sense of being quite durable; that's how H&K does everything. The grip is flat and more secure than the P220, due to the molded frontstrap checkering, and there are numerous good things to say about the USPs, but the P220 wins the comparison, in my opinion.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
I own 4 H&Ks & one SigP220, but have had another (European) P220 that I sold.
I love H&Ks, especially my P7M8s.
BUT...
The Sig is more accurate, it's flatter & easier to conceal, and it has an excellent DA trigger as well as an excellent SA trigger.
Two of my H&Ks are USP .45Compacts, and the main reason I own them is because I'm left-handed, and can carry them "cocked & locked" without the need for an ambidextrous (less safe) safety. They're very good guns, but they're not as compact as the P220, being considerably bulkier due to the slide width. My experience shows them to have less intrinsic accuracy & less practical accuracy than the SigP220, and while they're plenty "combat accurate", I want all the accuracy I can get, period. The P220 is also more precise (the tendency for all shots to go through the same hole) than the USP. It's true that the USPs are "over-engineered", in the sense of being quite durable; that's how H&K does everything. The grip is flat and more secure than the P220, due to the molded frontstrap checkering, and there are numerous good things to say about the USPs, but the P220 wins the comparison, in my opinion.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
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