SIG 1911 Quality?

dgludwig said:
It's probably time that some of us get past the supposed "evil Cohen era" and deal with what is instead of what once might have been. That horse has been beaten into equine glue long enough now; move on I say, nothing of contemporary relevance worth seeing anymore.
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Right because there was not just a massive recall of their most popular polymer pistol? Yeah Sig is running on all cylinders. They are no longer beta testing guns on paying consumers like the, GSR, P250, P320, MPX, P238, 556xi, 556 the list goes on an on. Name one product introduced in the Cohen era that did not have a hiccup that resulted in a modification of the platform in order to get it to run properly. Name one Sig product that has not been cheapened from its original form in order to maximize profits not make the gun better.

Sorry but the philosophy that drives Sig these days is 100% relevant. Look at how they run their factory these days. Ask people who live in the area what it is like to work for Sig. Ask them about the care and craftsmanship that goes into the pistols flying down the assembly line. All of these things are Cohen's doing. I give him credit he saved the company but today's Sig is not the Sig of old. They are still trading on the old reputation while cranking middle of the road product at a premium price.

You can choose to turn the other cheek but lots of other people are not as willing. I waited almost a year after their intro to buy a P320. Even then I was subject to a recall. I broke my own personal rule no more new Sig products and guess what I got burned but I guess you are right.

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My only point is that your ongoing, years long vendetta against the "new" SIG and its minions has been duly noted countless times but is becoming a mite tiresome for some of us to hear ad infinitum. You don't like the "new" SIG, fine. You blame Cohen for its perceived shortcomings, we get it and have for some time. I'm only suggesting that you try to get past your apparent heartfelt grievances and take up a new cause.
You want to keep stirring the pot and waste no opportunity to further malign SIG pistols, that's your business of course. Just know that you are not always preaching to the choir and, predicated on the positive experiences some of us have had with SIG products through the years and up to the present time, never will.
 
dgludwig said:
My only point is that your ongoing, years long vendetta against the "new" SIG and its minions has been duly noted countless times but is becoming a mite tiresome for some of us to hear ad infinitum. You don't like the "new" SIG, fine. You blame Cohen for its perceived shortcomings, we get it and have for some time. I'm only suggesting that you try to get past your apparent heartfelt grievances and take up a new cause.
You want to keep stirring the pot and waste no opportunity to further malign SIG pistols, that's your business of course. Just know that you are not always preaching to the choir and, predicated on the positive experiences some of us have had with SIG products through the years and up to the present time, never will.
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So I should just not post my thoughts on Sig because they run counter to yours? IF you actually read what I write 99/% of the time I say that Sigs are decent guns. That the chances of getting a good running Sig is higher than getting a bad one, unless its got a polymer lower and you drop it at a 30 degree angle on the back of the slide. LMAO.

What I do preach is do not believe the hype. There was a time when Sig made an superior product but those days are long gone. It is not that Sig are bad. I still have tons of the in the safe, most likely more than you, but I look at them objectively not as a fan anymore. They are above avg guns selling at a premium price. When people like you claim they are the best in their class I take issue with it because that has simply not been my experience with their current offering and if you look at this thread and other like it you will find that my experience is not the outlier you are attempting to portray it as.

Again name a one Sig release in the last 10 years that did not have teething issues. That was not beta tested on paying consumers. Please name one because off the top of my head I cannot think of a single one. The OP asked about Sig 1911 quality. I have offered my opinion just as you have offered yours.

What I find is that often those who started shooting Sigs in the Cohen era are happy with them and believe that they are still premium product and that they are getting good value for the money. People who have shot Sigs for 20+ years do not see it that way. They have seen the trend and call Sig out for their short comings because they know what the name Sig Sauer used to represent. Clearly YMMV
 
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What I do preach is do not believe the hype.
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Well, keep on preaching (ranting) if that makes you feel better. But continuing to say the same thing over and over and over again might serve your purpose but it doesn't necessarily add to validating your opinion.

And, following my own advice, I won't keep repeating myself here so, adios, my friend. As an aside, my wife and I will be traveling to your fine state later today to celebrate the Thanksgiving holidays with our daughters, son-in-laws and grandchildren, living outside of Raleigh (Apex) and outside of Charlotte (Waxhaw).

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family and to all of the many fine people who frequent The Firing Line!
 
dgludwig said:
Well, keep on preaching (ranting) if that makes you feel better. But continuing to say the same thing over and over and over again might serve your purpose but it doesn't necessarily add to validating your opinion.

And, following my own advice, I won't keep repeating myself here so, adios, my friend. As an aside, my wife and I will be traveling to your fine state later today to celebrate the Thanksgiving holidays with our daughters, son-in-laws and grandchildren, living outside of Raleigh (Apex) and outside of Charlotte (Waxhaw).

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family and to all of the many fine people who frequent The Firing Line!
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Honestly what brings out my “standard rants” are comments are statements like “If Sig's name is on it, it'll be of excellent quality.” They are not based in reality. The Sig name is on a lot of mediocre stuf these days. Rant over.

I am not tooo far from Charlotte a little longer from Apex. Not too far from Asheville. Enjoy your holiday and safe travels.
 
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What I find is that often those who started shooting Sigs in the Cohen era are happy with them and believe that they are still premium product and that they are getting good value for the money. People who have shot Sigs for 20+ years do not see it that way.
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That pretty much sums it up.

To those that got into new SIGs during the Cohen era, do yourself a favor. Save up $400-500, go on Gunbroker and find a surplus West German-made P6 or P226 (even a thoroughly-used example will still have a lot of life left in it). The difference in quality is marked.
 
Fishbed77 said:
That pretty much sums it up.

To those that got into new SIGs during the Cohen era, do yourself a favor. Save up $400-500, go on Gunbroker and find a surplus West German-made P6 or P226 (even a thoroughly-used example will still have a lot of life left in it). The difference in quality is marked.
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That's a crock of crap. I was buying SIGs back in 1987 when the average shooter still didn't know what the hell a SIG was. My first SIG was a European Mag Release P220 in .38 Super. I'm not a fan of the new P2xx Series guns mainly because I liked the older folded sheet steel slides. They were lighter.

The 1911's are fantastic. It's also BS that the external extractor is problematic. They had a very short run of bad extractors. The rest are good to go. Also, comparing the current 1911 to the original GSR is ridiculous. The GSR was made of parts from multiple vendors and needed to be hand fit which wasn't always the case. It sounds to me like someone just doesn't like Cohen..
 
They also made a run of bad internal extractors on the P220. I know because I have one. Would someone please tell us about that one?
 
Iron bottom said:
They also made a run of bad internal extractors on the P220. I know because I have one. Would someone please tell us about that one?
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What year was the pistol made? I bet it has a stainless steel slide. They changed the slide from a lighter folded carbon steel slide to a milled staineless steel slide which changed the weight. They tweaked the existing design but did not redesigned it and the older design failed. They could never get the tension right.

They eventually switched it the external extractor which had its own set of issues before the quirks were worked out.
 
Fishbed77 said:
Well... except for the SIG 556, SIG 556xi, early Cohen-era US-made P-series pistols, etc...

In that price range, I'd be looking hard at the Colt Rail Gun. More forged parts, better QC, and better resale (though I never sell my guns). Right now Colt is making some of the best 1911s in their history, and their prices are lower than they've been in many years.
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I'm looking at those, too. But they recently did away with the dark rail guns. Now all they make are stainless ones, unless you want the considerably more expensive Colt Combat Unit Rail Gun (what a mouthful) with stupid looking grips.
 
That's a crock of crap.
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That defensive nature is pretty much par for the course for folks who are heavily invested in the US-made SIGs. No one is saying the current pistols are bad (for example - the West German pistols are much more prone to rust than the new ones). But the attention to detail and QA/QC is not the same.

Also, comparing the current 1911 to the original GSR is ridiculous. The GSR was made of parts from multiple vendors and needed to be hand fit which wasn't always the case. It sounds to me like someone just doesn't like Cohen..
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Again, you are confirming exactly what folks complain about with the US-made SIGs. This kind of stuff simply didn't happen with the West German or Swiss guns. And that's not even taking into account the issues with the US-made rifles.
 
WVsig; it was a Stainless Steel Elite. I don't remember the date of purchase. Probably in the late 90s.

I haven't bought a Sig since. I was thinking of buying a 320 model. Then the drop problem surfaced. No mas.
 
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Iron bottom said:
WVsig; it was a Stainless Steel Elite. I don't remember the date of purchase. Probably in the late 90s.

I haven't bought a Sig since. I was thinking of buying a 320 model. Then the drop problem surfaced. No mas.
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Sounds about right on the timeframe. They had lots of issues in the very late 90s and early 2000's with the stainless P220s.
 
I've always loved Sig quality and have owned many of them over the years, but I really never cared for their 1911's. I bought one expecting better accuracy and performance that it gave me, and the big squared slide was a turn off for me too. I don't have anything against their external extractor, just don't like the rest of the gun. I own a S&W 1911, and it's never given me any problems and I am very fond of it. Basically I like Sigs and own a variety of 1911's....just not theirs.
 
I read a lot of stuff. No one mentioned SIG has a lifetime warranty.

I went with my daughter to purchase a 9mm in 1911 configuration. The guy behind the counter told us we don't want a Kimber because it had mim parts. they were junk. I asked what was going to break? He had no answer. She bought a two tone 9mm with a 5" barrel. Zero problems so far. Accuracy has not been determined yet because all she buys is cheap ball. She shot bowling pins (steel) with it all summer. Zero Problems.

I am a mechanic and welder. What is wrong with MIM ? It works.

A hand fit pistol done by a professional would be great. Not enough professionals to turn out the volume, and price goes out the window.

David
 
I owned two 1911 SIGs, both in .45ACP; a Target model and a MAXX. Both were excellent pistols. Not quite on the level of my STIs, but close. The STIs were more expensive; the current STIs seem to be even more expensive. Owned one DW; IMO it wasn't was good as either the SGIs, or the STIs.
 
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