Sierra MatchKings for hunting

[JohnKSa]

If not, you are only pasting information with no knowledge of the actual facts.

The only "actual facts" are that Sierra makes no guarantees whatsoever that:

1. The MatchKing bullets will have good terminal performance.
2. The MatchKing line will have the same terminal performance from one lot to the next.
3. The MatchKing line will have the same terminal performance across different calibers and bullet weights.

Have you shot any game with a Match King?

The fact that you have means nothing because of #2 and #3 above. The performance of the bullets you fired means nothing to anyone unless they are using bullets in the same caliber, the same weight and from the same lot that you used.

 

[natman]

Nat, I have read Sierra's comments about the bullet many years before you posted it.

Then I don't see how you can post something like this:

Why Sierra does not want to bill the Match king as a hunting bullet, I have no idea.

Sierra makes it quite clear exactly why they don't bill the Match King as a hunting bullet.

At least we can scratch "ill informed" off the list.

 

[JD0x0]

There's nothing to debate. Unless you're looking for a 'pelt saving' projectile, comparable to a FMJ, then there is no use for the MATCHking on game.

Treat them as non-expanding, FMJ type bullets, and you'll know exactly what to expect.

They weren't designed for game. Weren't designed to expand. The 'Hollow point' design is merely for maximum consistency between bullets for higher potential accuracy.

There are rare cases, where you'd get enough velocity to cause some sort of fragmentation, but that does not prove this is a 'hunting' bullet. And a properly designed bullet, will not only cause more trauma, but also should perform much more consistently and provide more reliable and ethical kills.

 

[reynolds357]

It is obvious that most of you have not shot anything that walks with a Match King. It might punch a clean hole if you are shooting it very slowly. As far as that goes, a TTSX will punch a clean hole if you are shooting it very slowly. A Match King pushed at reasonable velocity is a frag round. Its core usually holds together enough to make a nasty exit.

If you want to see what the match king will actually do to game, go get some 168's for a .308, .30-06, or .300 Win MAg. Shoot some hogs with them. They will work good in the .308 and the 0-6. They will pile the rooting critters up nicely. However, You will be shocked and awed at how well they work from the Win. Mag. You will RELIABLY and REPEATEDLY see devesdating wound channels. Get bullets from 40 different lot numbers if you like. They will all do the same thing.
I have been shooting meat with them for over 30 years, not reading about them on the old interwebs.

 

[JohnKSa]

It might punch a clean hole if you are shooting it very slowly.

Or it might do the same if shot at a higher speed. Or it might expand a little, or it might fragment. It might do anything a bullet can do except perform like a premium hunting bullet.

More to the point, whatever the last lot did, the next lot might do something different because Sierra makes no attempt to insure the terminal performance remains the same from lot to lot.

They will work good...
They will...
You will be...
You will RELIABLY and REPEATEDLY...
They will all do the same thing.

I must say it's impressive that you feel confident in guaranteeing the terminal performance and the consistency of the terminal performance of MatchKings even though Sierra won't.

It's always interesting to me when someone is absolutely certain that they know more about a product than the people who design it, make it, test it and sell it.

Its core usually holds together...

Now that's something you don't hear much about an awesome hunting bullet. It almost makes one think that just maybe Sierra really does have good reasons for not recommending MatchKings for hunting...

 

[reynolds357]

You obviously have no clue how they perform on game. Quite obvious you have never tested them.

Yep,Core "usually stay together enough." I have blown Barnes X bullets to pieces in game on a few occasions. By your logic the X must not be a capable game reaping bullet.

If one would really think closely about why Sierra says what they do about the Match King, the answer would be obvious. It seems to me the following reason is the most plausible: The bullet is used widely as a sniper bullet. It creates "problems" to say you are using hunting bullets for sniper application.

 

[JohnKSa]

You obviously have no clue how they perform on game. Quite obvious you have never tested them.

You are correct. And that puts me in good company since Sierra has no clue how they perform on game nor have they tested them for terminal performance either. Which is precisely why they don't guarantee them to perform as hunting bullets.

If one would really think closely about why Sierra says what they do about the Match King, the answer would be obvious.

I have and it certainly is obvious. Since they don't design it for terminal performance and don't test it for terminal performance, therefore they can't guarantee its terminal performance or even guarantee that the terminal performance stays consistent from lot to lot.

However, one need not think hard to come up with a reason because Sierra provides one that is perfectly plausible: "The MatchKing bullets are designed...with no consideration given to what might happen after impact."

It seems to me the following reason is the most plausible: The bullet is used widely as a sniper bullet. It creates "problems" to say you are using hunting bullets for sniper application.

That is a possible reason, but it is far from the most plausible. In fact, whether or not it is plausible at all is open to debate.

The bottom line is that when the choice is between a bullet which the manufacturer acknowledges was designed with no consideration for terminal performance and a bullet that the manufacturer claims is designed for hunting, the choice is really, REALLY simple. One can make it easily without the need to devise conspiracy theories about sniping and political correctness.

 

[reynolds357]

John, you ever use things for purposes the manufacturer says they are not intended? I do it all the time. Life is an adventure.

Seriously, take a box of 168's out one day and work a sound of hogs over with them. They will change your mind. Absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. They perform well.
Many, Many, people shoot match 168's in their ar's at pigs.

 

[JohnKSa]

John, you ever use things for purposes the manufacturer says they are not intended?

I do, but when I do, I do so with the full understanding that:

1. The item may not perform well for that use.
2. That even if one item seems to perform well for that use, the next one I buy may not because the manufacturer may have changed something that alters the suitability for my purpose since they aren't concerned about particular aspect of the product.

I generally don't do so unless there's a good reason to or a good reason I can't follow their recommendation. I don't go out of my way to ignore manufacturer recommendations when it's just as easy to follow them.

I also generally refrain from advising others to follow my example because of the two reasons above. Unless of course, there's clearly no possibility of any significantly negative outcome. For example advising someone that they can use a roll of masking tape as an improvised bench block isn't likely to result in property damage, personal injury, etc.

Seriously, take a box of 168's out one day and work a sound of hogs over with them. They will change your mind.

No they won't.

First of all, I'm not going to give them a chance to change my mind because:

A. I get to hunt so rarely that I would never consider risking wasting the time and effort by using products that the manufacturer says are a bad choice for the application. I know it seems crazy, but I'm actually going to pick the best products I can find/afford.

B. If I'm going to shoot a big game animal, I'm going to do my best to kill it humanely. Part of that is making sure I'm up to the task. Part of that is making sure my equipment is up to the task.​

Second, even if they worked, it wouldn't convince me that they're a good hunting bullet just because they kill things and the core "usually stays together". A 30 caliber bullet will often kill things even if it's a really poor bullet choice for the job at hand. J.H. Patterson killed lions in Africa with FMJ rounds from a .303 enfield. Poachers kill elephants with AKs. That shouldn't change anyone's mind about the suitability of .30 cal FMJ bullets for lion or elephant hunting, it just proves that you can kill things even with bullets that aren't a good choice for the task at hand.

Getting back to your analogy about using things for purposes the manufacturer didn't intend. The fact that I can use a screwdriver for a prybar doesn't change my mind and convince me that screwdrivers are actually great prybars. It just means that I got away with misusing a tool.

The fact that I manage loosen some bolts with a pair of pliers doesn't mean that my mind is now changed and I will try to talk people out of buying wrenches or try to convince them that pliers are great tools for loosening bolts and nuts. It just means that one can often manage to accomplish a task with a tool even when it's not the right tool for the job.

The fact that I can hammer a bunch of nails with a torque wrench doesn't mean I'll change my mind and start believing that it's smart to use a torque wrench for a hammer, it just means that any hard and reasonably heavy object can be used for a hammer in a pinch.

Many, Many, people shoot match 168's in their ar's at pigs.

Many, many people smoke, overeat, don't wear seatbelts, don't lock their doors at night, don't change the batteries in their smoke detectors, don't exercise, use drugs, spend more than they can afford, ignore gun safety rules, break the law and do any number of ill-advised things and get away with their ill-advised courses of action for many years--maybe even all their lives. It doesn't mean what they're doing is smart or that they're making good decisions, it just means that poor decision making doesn't always result in an instant debacle.

 

[Rob96]

In the case of the 308 Winchester, why would you use the 168 SMK when Sierra has the 165gr BTSP GMK? I load both with the same powder charge and there is no change in the POI.

 

[Art Eatman]

Backing and forthing to no good result...