Gentlemen please. I know ruda personally. He is a great shot, and I consider him a very good and courteous hunter. I don't see him taking any absurd shots just to prove a point. He is not trolling, he is not trying to stir things up. He just has an opinion that differs from some folks.
Sierra match kings worked for me
- Thread starter ruda
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Performance should be consistant. Expansion no.
Read what is says from the Sierra website above. The matchkings are designed to get to the target with as much precision and accuracy as possible. ONCE they reach the target, what happens is pretty much anyone's guess. They were not designed to expand. They were not designed to retain energy. They were not designed for anything but to punch holes in paper. With that in mind, they are not recommended for hunting because their effects are not consistant in anyway. Therefore, it is not recommended you should use them for hunting. We are beating a dead horse (or shooting) here. Why would you want to use anything but good game bullets for shooting game you intend to eat? Cost? I am sure you can afford it based on the small number of bullets you actually use during hunting season theory.
Ruda I know you intentions are good and you just want discussion. I think that so far everyone has done that well. Lets just focus on that goal. The other thing you might want to keep in mind Ruda is it does not appear you are going to get much support on the idea of using the SMKs on game. Expect some critism on it. I just hope that everyone remains civil as everyone already has.
Read what is says from the Sierra website above. The matchkings are designed to get to the target with as much precision and accuracy as possible. ONCE they reach the target, what happens is pretty much anyone's guess. They were not designed to expand. They were not designed to retain energy. They were not designed for anything but to punch holes in paper. With that in mind, they are not recommended for hunting because their effects are not consistant in anyway. Therefore, it is not recommended you should use them for hunting. We are beating a dead horse (or shooting) here. Why would you want to use anything but good game bullets for shooting game you intend to eat? Cost? I am sure you can afford it based on the small number of bullets you actually use during hunting season theory.
Ruda I know you intentions are good and you just want discussion. I think that so far everyone has done that well. Lets just focus on that goal. The other thing you might want to keep in mind Ruda is it does not appear you are going to get much support on the idea of using the SMKs on game. Expect some critism on it. I just hope that everyone remains civil as everyone already has.
inGobwetrust
New member
Ruda,
I have no problem with you. I think that the problem is that your actions could cause undue suffering and pain, possibly even lost game that lingers and dies much later. Even the most remote possibility of that tells me that you shouldn't do it. Don't believe me, listen to the company that makes these bullets and they will tell you the same. Sierra Match Kings are NOT recomended for hunting. What more needs to be said?
Animals move, hunters sometime flinch (even great shots), $hit happens! Use something else, please?
I have no problem with you. I think that the problem is that your actions could cause undue suffering and pain, possibly even lost game that lingers and dies much later. Even the most remote possibility of that tells me that you shouldn't do it. Don't believe me, listen to the company that makes these bullets and they will tell you the same. Sierra Match Kings are NOT recomended for hunting. What more needs to be said?
Animals move, hunters sometime flinch (even great shots), $hit happens! Use something else, please?
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
ruda, the consistency in construction of a match bullet has to do with uniformity of weight (including fore-and-aft balance) from bullet to bullet, and concentricity of core and jacket. There could be differences in the hardness of the copper in the jacket--which would not affect concentricity or weight. Same for the hardness of the lead core. Concentricity in a bullet equates to a balanced crankshaft in a race-motor.
A target shooter doesn't care; a hunter cannot know. An overly hard bullet might not expand; an overly soft bullet might well blow up.
I'm just guessin', of course--but I'll take Mr. Sierra's word for it about what his bullets do most reliably.
, Art
A target shooter doesn't care; a hunter cannot know. An overly hard bullet might not expand; an overly soft bullet might well blow up.
I'm just guessin', of course--but I'll take Mr. Sierra's word for it about what his bullets do most reliably.
, ArtTake it one step further...
If you were pleased with the performance of the Sierra Match King when it connected with your deer, you'd be even more tickled when you try a purpose-built Sierra GameKing or Nosler Ballistic Tip of comparable weight and accuracy next time in the woods.
(Yes, I said comparable accuracy, I've got witnessed Nosler Ballistic Tips that'll go 1/4 MOA for 5 rounds into paper out of my 6.5-06, and definitely do a number on whitetail and prairie dogs)
If you were pleased with the performance of the Sierra Match King when it connected with your deer, you'd be even more tickled when you try a purpose-built Sierra GameKing or Nosler Ballistic Tip of comparable weight and accuracy next time in the woods.
(Yes, I said comparable accuracy, I've got witnessed Nosler Ballistic Tips that'll go 1/4 MOA for 5 rounds into paper out of my 6.5-06, and definitely do a number on whitetail and prairie dogs)
The deer I shot with 165 .308 Gamekings last year at 150 yards had
a) An entrance wound, broken spine and exit wound and
b) Another entrance wound, broken ribs, torn heart and big exit wound.
The second shot was to put it down, the first stopped it. Neither bullet was recovered as they went right through the Wisconsin buck, despite expansion and bones.
Ruda, comparing your experience and mine, I would say that the Matchking failed you when it broke the shoulder but didn't kill. I think there's more than enough power to go through any part of a whitetail and keep going at shorter ranges. The Matchking isn't going to hold together to do that. I manage 1MOA with the Gameking out of an HK.
a) An entrance wound, broken spine and exit wound and
b) Another entrance wound, broken ribs, torn heart and big exit wound.
The second shot was to put it down, the first stopped it. Neither bullet was recovered as they went right through the Wisconsin buck, despite expansion and bones.
Ruda, comparing your experience and mine, I would say that the Matchking failed you when it broke the shoulder but didn't kill. I think there's more than enough power to go through any part of a whitetail and keep going at shorter ranges. The Matchking isn't going to hold together to do that. I manage 1MOA with the Gameking out of an HK.
handy,
Like I posted earlier no bullet would have killed that deer on my first shot. Nothing immediately vital was hit and it did exit. The shot entered the buck on the shoulder as he was quartering away. The heart and lungs were unhit. The SMK held together just fine as it expanded on the shoulder and continued penetrating to exit out the brisket just in front of the opposite shoulder.
Like I posted earlier no bullet would have killed that deer on my first shot. Nothing immediately vital was hit and it did exit. The shot entered the buck on the shoulder as he was quartering away. The heart and lungs were unhit. The SMK held together just fine as it expanded on the shoulder and continued penetrating to exit out the brisket just in front of the opposite shoulder.
handy,
Like I posted earlier no bullet would have killed that deer on my first shot. Nothing immediately vital was hit and it did exit. The shot entered the buck on the shoulder as he was quartering away. The heart and lungs were unhit. The SMK held together just fine as it expanded on the shoulder and continued penetrating to exit out the brisket just in front of the opposite shoulder.
Like I posted earlier no bullet would have killed that deer on my first shot. Nothing immediately vital was hit and it did exit. The shot entered the buck on the shoulder as he was quartering away. The heart and lungs were unhit. The SMK held together just fine as it expanded on the shoulder and continued penetrating to exit out the brisket just in front of the opposite shoulder.
Methuselah
Inactive
Ruda,
I think that the previous posts concerning your .308 being under-powered are true. You should go to a 750 grain match in a .50 rifle. Hopefully, that will satisfy those who think you have too little gun.
Methuselah
I think that the previous posts concerning your .308 being under-powered are true. You should go to a 750 grain match in a .50 rifle. Hopefully, that will satisfy those who think you have too little gun.
Methuselah
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I'd advise against using SMKs for much larger than a prairie dog.
No real sense in it. Bench-rest accuracy gets tossed a bit when shooting from field conditions. Plenty of other bullets available that will do the job much better (as per Sierra's own info - & many others) & are just as accurate "out there."
Far as .30-06 being "under-gunned" for elk ... Me & The Bud got 10 or so that would argue the point - Sierra's 180 GameKings at a spec'd 2700 fps - see a write-up over in Hunting.
Fact is, I switched over to a shorty barreled .308 (for rifle weight-savings) using Barnes XBTs at a measly, pokin' along 2400 fps. Shoots right through 'em, end-to-end. Granted, they've all been taken at 100 yds or under, but all the #s work out to 300 yds or so.
In any event, I don't think that anyone is really qualified to say much of anything regards any rifle caliber/bullet combo until after taking a good 20 or - & that from different angles, various ranges, etc. .... Too many variables ....
No real sense in it. Bench-rest accuracy gets tossed a bit when shooting from field conditions. Plenty of other bullets available that will do the job much better (as per Sierra's own info - & many others) & are just as accurate "out there."
Far as .30-06 being "under-gunned" for elk ... Me & The Bud got 10 or so that would argue the point - Sierra's 180 GameKings at a spec'd 2700 fps - see a write-up over in Hunting.
Fact is, I switched over to a shorty barreled .308 (for rifle weight-savings) using Barnes XBTs at a measly, pokin' along 2400 fps. Shoots right through 'em, end-to-end. Granted, they've all been taken at 100 yds or under, but all the #s work out to 300 yds or so.
In any event, I don't think that anyone is really qualified to say much of anything regards any rifle caliber/bullet combo until after taking a good 20 or - & that from different angles, various ranges, etc. .... Too many variables ....
inGobwetrust
New member
Methuselah,
The issue isn't about being undergunned. It's about the right tool for the job. I would not hesitate to use a .308 for elk with good shot selection AND the right bullet!
The issue isn't about being undergunned. It's about the right tool for the job. I would not hesitate to use a .308 for elk with good shot selection AND the right bullet!
"use a real hunting bullet"
do you mean one that shoots well, has complete penetration, near perfect expansion, and performs consistently? Or is there some other qualities I'm unaware of that you seek in your "real hunting bullets." Because if not the SMKs worked as desired.
How many of you that are spouting off about the inadequecy of the SMKs have actually used them, or tested them in a medium that allows you to examine their potential.
I'm aware that Sierra does not recommend their use, but guess what they worked great, the buck died quickly, what more do you want. I'm willing to guess most of us use products for other than their intended use. My rifle for instance, wasn't designed as a hunting rifle, but it worked great too.
do you mean one that shoots well, has complete penetration, near perfect expansion, and performs consistently? Or is there some other qualities I'm unaware of that you seek in your "real hunting bullets." Because if not the SMKs worked as desired.
How many of you that are spouting off about the inadequecy of the SMKs have actually used them, or tested them in a medium that allows you to examine their potential.
I'm aware that Sierra does not recommend their use, but guess what they worked great, the buck died quickly, what more do you want. I'm willing to guess most of us use products for other than their intended use. My rifle for instance, wasn't designed as a hunting rifle, but it worked great too.
Bottom Gun
New member
Why not give your match bullets a real test then and use them for brown bear?
ruda,
The definitive answer is from Sierra - those that make the bullet - they do not recommend using this bullet for hunting.
Yup. Could be "you" had excellent expansion characteristics on this one (or two, or three) shots - doesn't necessarily mean that you will, in any later hunting event. Sierra doesn't recommend it it, nor are these bullets necessarily constructs for it.
May very well be that "you" lucked out - for this situation. May not next time - is all.
I won't talk you out of it, I'd bet.
You wanna snipe somebody through the head at 1,000 yards? I'd bet the SMK is probablly one of the best bullet to do so.
But,
Use a hunting bullet for hunting.
I'd suspect that you'd get just as good (within any hunting scenario) accuracy using Sierra's GameKings ... & that, with the "controlled expansion" touted by the bullet manufacturer.
The definitive answer is from Sierra - those that make the bullet - they do not recommend using this bullet for hunting.
Yup. Could be "you" had excellent expansion characteristics on this one (or two, or three) shots - doesn't necessarily mean that you will, in any later hunting event. Sierra doesn't recommend it it, nor are these bullets necessarily constructs for it.
May very well be that "you" lucked out - for this situation. May not next time - is all.
I won't talk you out of it, I'd bet.
You wanna snipe somebody through the head at 1,000 yards? I'd bet the SMK is probablly one of the best bullet to do so.
But,
Use a hunting bullet for hunting.
I'd suspect that you'd get just as good (within any hunting scenario) accuracy using Sierra's GameKings ... & that, with the "controlled expansion" touted by the bullet manufacturer.
Bottom Gun
New member
No thanks, Ruda,
I'm not the one trying to show everyone how irresponsible I am.
I'm not the one trying to show everyone how irresponsible I am.
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