Sierra match kings worked for me

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ruda

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Most if not all of you probably won't recognize me, I post very little but I do read the board almost every day.

I read with great interest a post a couple of weeks ago about someone saying his buddy was going to use SMK's for a deer hunt. Everyone suggested not to, at least everyone on the internet. I had planned on using them because they shoot great in my rifle. Some of the most experineced people around here locally said they'd work fine. So I took them on my deer hunting trip. A friend and I packed into a wilderness area with our horses. I ended up shooting a buck at around two hundred yards while on the move. One shot broke his shoulder, and a second one through the neck killed him. I realize the shoulder bone would cause almost any bullet to upset however the one through the neck encountered no bones only soft tissue (I missed the spine but he still died) Expansion was near perfect judging from the damage done and the exit holes, it was not explosive, yet did expand. The rifle is a .308win with only a 20'' barrel and at 200 yds veloctiy was not very high

I am in no way suggesting this is the end all of tests, afterall this is only one buck. I also don't want to flame anyone, that's what I like about this board people are friendly. I just thought I'd share my experience and let you know they did work for me. I'm planning on using them this winter to fill my cow elk tag. I'll let you know
 
Yeah that was me.

I start that thread about the SMK's and hunting. Interesting findings. After watching a coyote run away after getting nailed with a Sierra 168 Matchking, I just don't have confidence in them for hunting. When I shot another coyote in the same exact situation with a Speer 125 gr. TNT HP and he went about 5 yards and stopped, my mind was made up. For what little you hunt, I think it is a good idea to get the right bullet for the job. Afterall, would the right bullet have required a 2nd shot? Thanks for sharing your input though. As you said, this is a good place to discuss. Let us know how the elk hunting goes.
 
thanks for your finding on the coyotes. I've not used them on coyotes yet, reserving that for my 22-250.

I'm not sure I know what you mean't by "what little I hunt"
I hunt quite extensively and guided elk, deer and bear pack trips for several years.

The second shot would have been necessary with any bullet. You see he was moving and I lead him a little too much. So with the shot angle I had and giving too much lead all the first shot did was break the shoulder, but it put a stop to him moving. after gutting him I noticed his heart and lungs were untouched.
 
By "what little one hunts" I think one may surmise that the actual "shot" time is only a small portion... I mean, I seriously freak out when someone bitches about spending $20 on ammo to ensure a sighted in rifle when they've spent $2,000 dollars to get somewhere...

If you're hunting, you want ONE ROUND to be able to do the job... I'd heartily consider you check out the Nosler ballistic tips... I get same/better accuracy in my Savage 110FP as with the matchkings, and they expand better.
 
bogie,

I think you are right about the "what little you hunt." I agree.

One round is absolutely the best. Unfortunately my shooting was flawed, not the bullet. Had the first bullet hit the heart/lung area, instead of just the shoulder, it would have taken only 1 round. I'm sure the ballastic tips would work great, though I must ask; at what point during that buck's death did my SMKs fail?
 
Ruda,

You're asking for trouble if you try to use those match bullets on elk.

First, they are not designed for hunting or expansion. They may or may not expand for you or they may expand too rapidly.
Besides, you won't need to shoot .5 MOA out there. Your bullet performance and placement are the two most important factors.

Second, Even if those 168 gr slugs were hunting bullets, they're way too light for elk. I tried to down an elk one time with my 30/06 using 165 gr Sierra Game King bullets. Big mistake. It took well placed hits behind both shoulders and ran into the next county. Never did recover it.
Next time I used the 30/06 with 200 gr Nosler Partitions. They worked MUCH better than the 165 gr, but I felt they were still marginal.

Lastly, your .308 is a marginal caliber for elk. Elk are incredibly tough thick-skinned animals and need a heavy bullet with lots of energy to put them down.

My hunting partner wounded an elk at 150 yd then lost it using his 7MM Mag loaded with 150 gr Ballistic Tips this year.
The next day. he ended up shooting another elk FOUR TIMES with the same ammo before he put it down.
VERY VERY MESSY kill. It really bothered me to have to watch an animal suffer like that.

You can expect to do the same if you insist upon using those match bullets.

A hunter has an obligation to the game to make the quickest, most humane kill possible. We should show at least that much respect for the animals we hunt. Elk are magnificient creatures and should be treated as such.

Sure, lots of people hunt large game with 270's, 25/06's, 243's, etc. They kill elk with them too. "Bullet Placement" is the phrase they parrot.
The problem is, they often aren't able to recover the animal and the animal dies in a thicket somewhere. Of course most of these guys will continue hunting until they are able to shoot one and drop it no matter how many they wound prior to dropping one. Then they brag to all their friends how their little magic .27 caliber rifle is "just the ticket for elk" and the myth is perpetuated.

I have one word for all of it. . . . . . .irresponsible.

I suggest you buy the heaviest Partition, Barnes, or Trophy Bonded bullet you can find and use it. Use a premium hunting bullet and not some garden variety soft point because they are a few cents cheaper. Never try to cut corners on your ammo. Buy or load the best you can find no matter what the cost and you'll be glad you did.

Good luck on your hunt. Be sure to let us know how you make out.
 
I appreciate the replys and opinions so far and welcome more.

i have a couple of questions. My 308 is the same as your 06, only difference being the velocity once the bullet as left the barrel. they are in fact very close in velocity. Why do people consider the 308 too little when a bullet from a 308 at 100 yards is probably going faster or extremely close than a bullet from a 06 at 200 yds, would you that use a 06 turn down a shot at 200 yds
Second, though elk are very tough I've yet to see any elk run more than 100 yards after two well placed hits. Elk are tough, they are not bullet proof, hits in the heart and lungs make them die.
 
, they are not bullet proof, hits in the heart and lungs make them die.
Click to expand...


That's true, but they may die miles from where you shot them. What do you do when the blood trail runs out?


Why do people consider the 308 too little when a bullet from a 308 at 100 yards is probably going faster or extremely close than a bullet from a 06 at 200 yds, would you that use a 06 turn down a shot at 200 yds
Click to expand...


Frankly, I don't think a .308 OR a 30/06 is enough gun for elk.
I killed them with my 30/06 when the 30/06 was all I had, but like I said earlier, it was marginal. I wouldn't use it again.
 
Ok - I'll ask...

Bottom Gun,

What cartridge/bullet type do you use when elk hunting?

JohnDog (inquiring minds want to know:) )
 
I think what might be missing in all this is awareness of one fundamental concept in hunting in the Newnited States: It ain't subsistence hunting.

"Fair chase", "Clean kill" and other aspects of the hunting ethic are the most important factors for those who are proud of their honor and honesty.

My grandfather killed his one and only deer with a .22 rimfire. So? Other folks speak of their success with .223s and the AK round. So?

I happen to be one who prefers a bit of overkill-capability in my rifle for "sport-hunting". If I do my part correctly, it's one shot and DRT. If I'm a bit over-gunned, even a bad hit might well anchor an animal long enough for me to correct my mistake.

All the above BS sez to me that it's a lot better to possibly give up a bit of accuracy and use a bullet which is specifically designed for best game-killing performance, rather than tight-group performance on paper. After all, for any shot inside of 300 yards on something as big as a deer, one MOA is plenty good.

Now, I grant that those who have been shooting a lot, for a lot of years, and who are so used to hunting and killing game such that "buck fever" doesn't occur, may well be able to use "marginal" cartridges with adequate success. Heck, I do that myself, sometimes. Trouble is, not everybody can call their shots out at 250 to 500 yards. Not everybody can hit, offhand, beyond around 100 yards. Not everybody can hit a running deer at 100 to 200 yards.

Proper tools for the job, I reckon. I've never argued with Ruark's "Use enough gun", and I'm sorta picky about common courtesy and politeness to the critters I go after.

Ruda, the thing about it--and this is pure opinion--is that you got away with one, this time. Given the amount of strangeness in that interaction between bullet and animal that has led to thousands of stories, you just might not have such good results next time. Like I say, I dunno; I'm just guessing.

As usual,

Art
 
Thanks Bogie.

Bogie explained what I meant by "what little hunting we do". When you go hunting, the most rounds you are going to shoot is maybe 5 at one animal right? It is not like shooting matches where we might shoot 45 to 100 rounds a weekend. My match bullets need to be cost effective if I want to keep shooting. However as mentioned, when we hunt, why not spend the few extra dollars for the right bullet when we might only shoot 10 rounds all season (including sighters).

Ruda I understand your desire to give the SMKs a chance. It sort of turns into a "I wonder if it is true" or "I think they are wrong." I await your elk results. Partly because I wonder if it will work, and partly because I want to see you fail and make myself feel better for being right. Just being honest. Based on these gentleman's opinions, I would not take my SMKs elk hunting. I would do just what they say, find the biggest bullet and load it as hot as possible. Elk can run for miles, why take the chance? As was mentioned, we don't need sub MOA performance on game. On paper yes! Game no! For me it just makes sense to use the right bullet for the job. Sierra tells you specifically to not use their SMKs on game, there might be a reason why.

Whatever you decided good luck and I hope it is a successful hunt. I do know what I am talking about on coyotes though. Do not use those bullets on varmints unless it is at squirrels at close range. When I hunt coyotes, my goal is to kill. I don't really care how, I just want a dead dog to throw in the back of the truck and show the ranchers I wasn't just screwing around on their land all day. If you shoot .308 at varmints and this is your goal as well, load the Speer 125 gr. TNT HPs. They are deadly on coyotes. I have made some shots that were not dead on with the Speer TNTs and the coyote never traveled further than 5-10 yards before stopping. Very large exit wound! Very large. Of course the .22-250 is also an excellent coyote stopper. My dad is a crack shot with his .22-250 and he has harvested probably near 600 coyotes in the last 10 years with his.
 
JohnDog,

In the past, I've taken elk with my 30/06 loaded with 200 gr Nosler Partitions. At the time, I felt this combo was barely adequate for these tough critters
Last year, I picked up a Sako in .338 Win Mag to serve as my new elk rifle.
I took an elk with one shot from the .338 this year using 210 gr Nosler Partitions. The elk dropped in its tracks. The .338 put it down with MUCH more authority than the .30 cal did.
On our last two hunts the other hunters in our party who used less expensive bullets like Power Points, Ballistic Tips, etc, either lost an elk or had to shoot it more than once.

In each of my hunts though, the key to success was the Partition bullet. I seriously doubt that plain old soft nose bullets would have done as well.
The premium bullets such as Nosler Partition, Barnes, or Trophy Bonded can't be beat on large game like elk.


El Rojo,

I agree with you on the Speer 125 TNT bullets. They are explosive on varmints. Devastating might be a better word for them. Very accurate too. I like them. In fact, I'm in the process of putting a long range varmint rig together and I plan to use those 125's in it.
Those bullets even do extremely well when I shoot them in my Garand.
 
Lots of truths here from a lot of seasoned hunters. Count me as another one who won't use match bullets on any game including varmints larger than prairie dogs-it just does not respect the animal for me.
I have been with other hunters who have used match bullets with varying degrees of success and failure. Typically, when the match bullets expanded, they did so in different ways-a couple of them split a quarter inch behind the nose, sending fragments into the area.
Elk is a bigger critter which can take a lot of lead if you don't do it right the first time. I watched my father take several with a 270 Winchester and 130 grain silvertips, and he never had to shoot twice. The reason is simply that he would not take what he considered an iffy shot, so there was no quartering shots, no running shots, and no shots from behind. I took an elk years ago with a 30-30, as it was the only rifle I had, but took my time and got within 100 yards and snapped his neck with a 170 grain flat point-just as dead as if I'd used a howitzer.
Only advice I could possibly offer is to be honest with yourself and be able to say "I will not take this shot" because it's too far/not facing the right way/whatever, if you think your rifle/load is not an all aspect killer, and honor the animal you stalk.
In the end, the true hunter is not going to blame the rifle/load/pack horse/buddies for failure-they have only to look in the mirror. I do not plan on the bullet expanding, although they always seem to, but take my time and put it where it will kill quickly whether it expands or not.
Anyway, good hunting for you-hope its big and beautiful and poses pretty for you!
 
Well said, David.

Seems like too few hunters respect the animals they hunt. Very refreshing to see that someone else thinks as I do.

As you say, match bullets are OK for varmints.
I use the 52 gr Sierra HPBT (#1410) bullets in my .223 for varmints. Not only do they give me outstanding accuracy, they are quite explosive when they land.
 
I'm glad i posted this topic, at first I wasn't sure if I wanted to. I guess I feel that since I've had success once why couldn't it work again.

I'm a little disappointed by a couple of comments. First why is the above BS. I thought it was just a discussion to share experiences. Second, I take exception to the fact that Bottom Gun seems to think he can judge the level of respect hunters give to the animals when he doesn't even know them. Disrespect is not shown simply because you don't approve of their rifle/load. You judge your 338 to be effective because you've seen it kill elk. I judge many other rifle/loads effective because I've seen them kill too.
 
From the Sierra web site

Q: Can I use a MatchKing bullet for deer hunting? They shoot just great in my rifle, so they should be just super for hunting use, right?

A: No, it's not recommended. The MatchKing bullets are designed for pinpoint accuracy; with no consideration given to what might happen after impact. If the bullet has arrived on target accurately, its job is done at that point. Hunting bullets must perform in a certain manner after impact. Penetrating ability, expansion characteristics, and even profile must be considered when designing a hunting bullet. Use MatchKings for matches, and game bullets for hunting.
 
Disrespect, Ruda?

My my you certainly are sensitive, aren't you?

Actually, I don't recall saying anything disrespectful. I was merely trying to help you avoid making a mistake.
Perhaps it was I who made the mistake though.

Good luck with your match bullets.
 
Ruda,

Seems to me you're using the SMK's just to make a point. How about using a proven hunting bullet so that the point won't be lost on the animal that MIGHT suffer because of your stubornness?

Patrick
 
I don't consider myself too sensitive, I just oppose making judgements of a hunter's respect given to an animal when all the exposure you have of them is an internet forum.

I apologize if some think I'm trying to stir things up. I was genuine in my desire to merely share information, and not to create a flame war.

My use of the SMKs was not to prove a point, I was planning on using them even before I read the thread about them a couple of weeks ago. My use was based on other people's opinion and tests I did by shooting into a bullet stop where the bullet could be recovered and its penetration and expansion examined. They performed very well in my test. From my pre-hunt test results and opinions from some friends I thought they'd work on game and they did for me. Now I've only killed one buck with them and my tests have not been exhaustive. So this leads me to another question maybe some of you could answer for me. If I understand things correctly match bullets must be made very consistently to obtain good accuracy. From that, I gather that bullet performance should should be consistent with what I've seen so far, shouldn't it?


P.S. Believe me when I say I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here. I'm not interested in fighting about this with anyone. I'll again apologize if I've been argumentative or quarrelsome with anyone.
 
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