Sick of hearing about Glock kBs!
- Thread starter shamster
- Start date
Minor correction, guy: overpressured reloads are the loader's fault, and the loader may not necessarily be the shooter.
FWIW, I test-fired a used G23 for my dealer today. With reloads. Only kB I had was the normal kind.
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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
FWIW, I test-fired a used G23 for my dealer today. With reloads. Only kB I had was the normal kind.
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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
Okay, I never thought I'd hear about a Glock ka-boom except from this and other firearms boards, but today while I awaited my NICS check, another guy at the counter had brought in his ka-boomed Glock 22. Culprit? Handloads. Need I say more? Do I distrust my own Glock 19 or think any less of Glocks as a whole? Heck, no. And that goes the same for my Colt 1911's and S&W revolvers.
not all kBs are reload-induced. some were due to bad brass from Federal, as I can personally attest. the .40 is a high-pressure round, and the case is an integral part of the "pressure vessel".
another mechanism is bullets being driven back into the case, thus greatly increasing peak pressure, most likely because of repeated chamberings.
however, with good ammo (factory or otherwise) and common sense, the Glock is as safe or safer than any other autopistol.
another mechanism is bullets being driven back into the case, thus greatly increasing peak pressure, most likely because of repeated chamberings.
however, with good ammo (factory or otherwise) and common sense, the Glock is as safe or safer than any other autopistol.
I have seen a glock kB. 9mm with factory ammo. It appeared to have fired out of battery, spraying brass shrapnel into the shooters face. Thankfully, no serious injuries. The gun then stripped a fresh round from the mag, locked into battery and seized up. It took about 30 minutes of serious effort and tools by range officers to disassemble the gun and make it safe.
I have been told 9mms don't do this.
I have been told I must have the facts wrong.
I have been told I am a liar.
I don't care, I know what I saw.
I have been told 9mms don't do this.
I have been told I must have the facts wrong.
I have been told I am a liar.
I don't care, I know what I saw.
How is it that so many Glock kBs are being blamed on "over pressure reloads"? While this is a convenient excuse, I would be interested to know how (after the fact) it is determined that an "over pressure reload" is the culprit, as well as who is doing this analysis.
Anyone have an answer??
Anyone have an answer??
The Glock seems getting the limelight of being questioned on it's KB's characteristics. I have just posted 2 on related posts and here one again.
The statistics of occurence seems getting bigger on glocks KB's, do you think it is the cartridge pressure faults or it is because of the gun's quality.
Isn't it, we have said several times that revolvers and the 1911's can accepts a little bit higher in load pressure than it's own standard calibre pressure but still the gun will not be fragmented. How come some pistol like the glock explode when it is only caused by a higher load but the same caliber.
Haven't we forget that we should put the most hot loaded bullets to our guns to be more effective and reliable.
Just an opinion only.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited December 26, 1999).]
The statistics of occurence seems getting bigger on glocks KB's, do you think it is the cartridge pressure faults or it is because of the gun's quality.
Isn't it, we have said several times that revolvers and the 1911's can accepts a little bit higher in load pressure than it's own standard calibre pressure but still the gun will not be fragmented. How come some pistol like the glock explode when it is only caused by a higher load but the same caliber.
Haven't we forget that we should put the most hot loaded bullets to our guns to be more effective and reliable.
Just an opinion only.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited December 26, 1999).]
DerGlockenpooper
New member
I have had poor reloads fail to chamber in my Glock. The striker hit the primer, but the gun did not fire. I have seen this dozens of times. The bullet would not chamber by a fraction of a millimeter and it would not fire out of battery.
I had a guide rod, aftermarket, that would slip out of battery when I fired. Sometimes the gun would not fire, if it slipped out of battery. It would light primer strike but not enough to fire. Sometimes it would not quite slip out of battery and would fire. This was a .40 caliber with high pressure loads. The gun never blew up even with that shoddy aftermarket recoil spring and that hot loads. I fired about a case of ammo like this. When the gun did slip out of battery, it did not fire.
My conclusion is, that if the gun does indeed fire out of battery, I must have experienced it many times, and it never blew up.
On the other hand, when the gun really was out of battery by even a fraction of a millimeter, it would not fire, so maybe the gun really cannot fire out of battery.
I have heard that all guns can fire a little out of battery so it is a non issue.
Anyway, from that experience, I cannot see how out-of-battery discharge can be blamed.
The only case of Glocks exploding have been overpressure reloads, or bad factory ammo where the factory took the blame. Glocks blow up often, because there are a LOT of Glocks out there and the rumors run wild. When a 1911 blows up, it is just another bad reload. When a Glock blows up, it is a "bad gun design".
I have seen revolvers blow up, Sigs and others, but never a Glock.
I had a guide rod, aftermarket, that would slip out of battery when I fired. Sometimes the gun would not fire, if it slipped out of battery. It would light primer strike but not enough to fire. Sometimes it would not quite slip out of battery and would fire. This was a .40 caliber with high pressure loads. The gun never blew up even with that shoddy aftermarket recoil spring and that hot loads. I fired about a case of ammo like this. When the gun did slip out of battery, it did not fire.
My conclusion is, that if the gun does indeed fire out of battery, I must have experienced it many times, and it never blew up.
On the other hand, when the gun really was out of battery by even a fraction of a millimeter, it would not fire, so maybe the gun really cannot fire out of battery.
I have heard that all guns can fire a little out of battery so it is a non issue.
Anyway, from that experience, I cannot see how out-of-battery discharge can be blamed.
The only case of Glocks exploding have been overpressure reloads, or bad factory ammo where the factory took the blame. Glocks blow up often, because there are a LOT of Glocks out there and the rumors run wild. When a 1911 blows up, it is just another bad reload. When a Glock blows up, it is a "bad gun design".
I have seen revolvers blow up, Sigs and others, but never a Glock.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Lets not forget - ALL Guns... even the mighty HKs can go KaBoom.
I have seen Ruger GP-100s, Super Blackhawks, S&W 29, 629, Police Specials, 4506s, Pythons, Deltas, and several other pistols that went KaBoom. (Not when it happened - but I saw the results after the fact.)
These things can happen.
Funny, out of all these - Operator Error was never a factor according to the Operator behind the trigger at that time. Go Figure.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
I have seen Ruger GP-100s, Super Blackhawks, S&W 29, 629, Police Specials, 4506s, Pythons, Deltas, and several other pistols that went KaBoom. (Not when it happened - but I saw the results after the fact.)
These things can happen.
Funny, out of all these - Operator Error was never a factor according to the Operator behind the trigger at that time. Go Figure.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
My apologies to all about the Randall bit. I was trying to post a response in another Forum and somehow it got stuck here. Modern technology...sigh...
Ivanhoe: I should have used "abuse" instead of negligence. Check out that old thread I cited and you'll learn why Glocks go KaBoom! It's not the gun's fault but the shooter who ignores Glock's recommendations not to use lead bullets. That thread is lengthy, but well worth the time. Enjoy.
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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
Ivanhoe: I should have used "abuse" instead of negligence. Check out that old thread I cited and you'll learn why Glocks go KaBoom! It's not the gun's fault but the shooter who ignores Glock's recommendations not to use lead bullets. That thread is lengthy, but well worth the time. Enjoy.
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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
slickpuppy
New member
Saw a KB this weekend. It was a Kimber 1911. The guy escaped with a sore hand and bruised pride. That was the first I ever witnessed and it scared the .... out of everyone on the line. Cause? Crappy reloads. Not in the owner's words, but probably pretty descriptive nonetheless.
Whether we glockers like it or not, Glocks are a bit more susceptible to kabooms. That's because in the 6 o-clock chamber opening, there is too much exposed brass. And coupled with this, the chamber is a little too loose.
If you shoot the same bad reloads or hot ammo through a Glock, Sig, Beretta, HK, etc, the Glock will most likely blow first, because of the above weakness of Gaston's design.
Yes, a weakness! Instead of designing a pistol for the .40 S&W, he merely created an intrusive feed ramp to handle the fatter .40 bullet and loosened up the chamber so it would feed OK. Gaston created the famous "unsupported chamber" of the .40's.
For my Glock, I use a Bar-Sto barrel which is decently supported and still feeds fine. And I feel fine. The 9mm and 357 Glocks seems to have a decently sized chamber and farily good support at the chamber opening.
All you have to do is shoot a hot factory round through a Glock and a Sig 229 and then compare the brass. The Glock stretches the living crap out of the brass while the Sig 229 handles it fine.
I'm not picking on the Glock. It's a simple fact that you can either accept or ignore. The faq websites above just tell it the way it is.
If you shoot the same bad reloads or hot ammo through a Glock, Sig, Beretta, HK, etc, the Glock will most likely blow first, because of the above weakness of Gaston's design.
Yes, a weakness! Instead of designing a pistol for the .40 S&W, he merely created an intrusive feed ramp to handle the fatter .40 bullet and loosened up the chamber so it would feed OK. Gaston created the famous "unsupported chamber" of the .40's.
For my Glock, I use a Bar-Sto barrel which is decently supported and still feeds fine. And I feel fine. The 9mm and 357 Glocks seems to have a decently sized chamber and farily good support at the chamber opening.
All you have to do is shoot a hot factory round through a Glock and a Sig 229 and then compare the brass. The Glock stretches the living crap out of the brass while the Sig 229 handles it fine.
I'm not picking on the Glock. It's a simple fact that you can either accept or ignore. The faq websites above just tell it the way it is.
As far as I know, No one has ever proven that a Glock is more susceptible to firing out of battery more so than any other autos out there. Dean Speir's latest kb! faq on greent.com states the jury is still out on this one. Personally, I think the jury will be out for a long, long time <G>
4V50 Gary, I read the mentioned thread before my last post, and it only addresses reloading concerns. again, when discussing kB issues, it is disingenuous at best to avoid mentioning the problems of bad factory brass and bullet setback, much less the occasional overcharged factory load.
another issue which rarely gets mentioned is that new cartridges tend to start out life rather warmly loaded by the factory folks, and gradually get loaded down a bit as time goes on. after all, we'd all like to believe the ammo makers can maintain nominal peak pressure to within 0.1%, but powder granule size varies, charging machines rattle and wear, etc. since progressive powder has a highly nonlinear relationship between pressure and burning rate, there will be a certain small percentage of cartridges for which the tolerances stacked together to create an unsafe round. when the 40 first came out, it was pretty hotly loaded for its case design (especially compared to the 10mm). the ammo guys wanted to duplicate 45 ACP performance in a small case, and probably pushed the envelope a bit. after reports of case failures started coming in, no doubt they eased back on the loads a bit.
I believe the 357 Sig is doing OK since it came out on the heels of the 40, and thus the cartridge makers applied the lessons learned with the 40. one tech at a large cartridge maker told me they beefed up their 40 case considerably before using it as the basis for their 357 ammo.
another issue which rarely gets mentioned is that new cartridges tend to start out life rather warmly loaded by the factory folks, and gradually get loaded down a bit as time goes on. after all, we'd all like to believe the ammo makers can maintain nominal peak pressure to within 0.1%, but powder granule size varies, charging machines rattle and wear, etc. since progressive powder has a highly nonlinear relationship between pressure and burning rate, there will be a certain small percentage of cartridges for which the tolerances stacked together to create an unsafe round. when the 40 first came out, it was pretty hotly loaded for its case design (especially compared to the 10mm). the ammo guys wanted to duplicate 45 ACP performance in a small case, and probably pushed the envelope a bit. after reports of case failures started coming in, no doubt they eased back on the loads a bit.
I believe the 357 Sig is doing OK since it came out on the heels of the 40, and thus the cartridge makers applied the lessons learned with the 40. one tech at a large cartridge maker told me they beefed up their 40 case considerably before using it as the basis for their 357 ammo.