shutdown of handgun production?

dZ

New member
Can anyone confirm this?

From: neal@nealknox.com (Neal Knox)

Sept. 26 update -- There will be a meeting in Washington
tomorrow between three major handgun makers and the attorneys
general of New York and Connecticut, and Philadelphia Mayor Ed
Rendell.

Glock, Colt's and Smith & Wesson, who are attending the
meeting, reportedly are interested in negotiating their way out of
lawsuits by governmental agencies.

Industry sources tell me Glock is in the process of shutting
down private sales of handguns, and Colt's is positioned to do so.

Another long gun maker who produces a relatively few handguns
has already stopped handgun production in antipation of whopping
increases in liability insurance unless they get out of private sales
of handguns. They haven't announced the shutdown of their handgun
production, and it could resume if the exhorbitant insurance cost
is reduced; but right now that doesn't seem likely.

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will you stand with me in DC on 10-2-99?
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/LibMarch
 
I saw this as well. I can't imagine companies like Glock and S&W, which make metric buttloads of cash on civilian handgun sales, willingly giving in. Colt's, well, they have the SMG (military) market, so they don't have as much to lose.

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"America needs additional gun laws like a giraffe needs snow tires."
--Rabbi Mermelstein, JPFO
 
I heard this about Glock around 6 months ago as my dealer was talking about it.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
referal #2005932
 
OK let's start a run on handguns like the one currently on the AR15. Wonder who the Long Gun manufacturer Knox mentions is... Remington?

Things will get worse for a while but this type of lawsuit will eventually backfire on the Legal community.

Look at all the money the cigarette people handed over and now they still face lawsuits. Now they appear ready to fight. When people start loosing jobs and farmers go bankrupt there will be a backlash from the "Flyover" country people that will stun Washington.

If the left wins in court it will be open season on every industry and people will get hurt. I believe that the next revolution in this country will come from middle America turning on the current media culture and politicians. At least I hope it will be so.

Geoff Ross

------------------
Damn!...I need more practice!
Pi$$ off the left, register to vote.
 
Geoff, I also hope you are right. We have needed tort reform for quite awhile, and perhaps all of this latest foolishness will convince those still 'sitting on the fence'.
 
If this is true, we can expect handgun prices to skyrocket soon. That will accomplish control of handguns simply by pricing them out of reach of most people. Can these companies stay in business if they lose their civilian markets? It would be a shame to lose any of them. Can other gun makers ramp up production enough to make up for the lost supply? Especially since, if this is true, we can expect demand to increase as long as prices are still affordable. Will this affect the supply of ammunition?

By the way, I heard that Colt lost the military contract to Bushmaster.
 
sbryce, the last time I held a gov't issue M16 (not mine), it was manufactured by FN(about 1990). I haven't made an effort to keep up with it, but I thought Colt lost the contract some time ago.

Well, it should have happened by now, why haven't I heard anything about it? Was it just a negotiation, or did the gun control side not "compromise"?

[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited September 29, 1999).]
 
Guys,

Although I agree that the feds may have the gun makers running scared, I can't see them restricting their domestic manufacturing. The main target of HCI, as far as manufacturers go has been the lower end market like Ruger. If the klinton Administration attempts to shut down manufacturing in this country it will never stand up in court. And because this is a interstate trade issue as well as a Second Amendment issue, the Supreme Court would have to get involved. And, neither side really wants this to get that far. Mainly because none of them (HCI or RKBA) know which way the justices will swing. That is why HCI and the current (gag) president hasn't pushed for a Supreme Court decision.

I also do not understand why the gun makers don't fight. They will probably loose in the lower local courts because of local pressures, but not in the federal appeals system. Unlike the tobacco industry, gun makers have never lied. Guns are designed to punch holes in things, plain and simple. If one reads the tobacco lawsuit briefs, the fact that the tabacco munufacturers LIED about their product and their effects is what hung them, not the product itself. The act of lying constitutes negligence, one of the three legs of a liability lawsuit. This can not be said about firearms makers. There is legally the absence of malice or intent to conceal. Also, gun makers have always behaved in a "reasonable and prudent" manner when it comes to their products. (second leg) And firearms misused are in sole control of the user and not malfunctioning or causing an action independant of the user (third leg).
But again, I do not think that the anti-gun crownd really wants this to get into courts other than local jurisdictions. The feds are using bad pr and other media tricks to paint the firearms industry as bad people. The scary thing is, if the Klintonistas destroy the American firearms industry, we will become dependent on off shore firearms makers like has happened with the electronics industry. How do you defend yourself when your potential enemies are making the weapons?

Okay, enough....I can get carried away.

Just remember, VOTE and pester your representatives. Stall until the elections, only about 15 more months.

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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
I just read at GlockTalk that Colt has stopped making civilian sales of hand guns (or issued a statement to that effect). There is supposedly an article about it at the Wall Street Journal (www.wsj.com). I don't have a membership there. If somebody else does, please check it out and report back.
 
I'm given to understand that the gun makers can't afford the cost to fight this in the lower courts, plus appeals.

In addition, the bad PR and other media tricks that Joe mentioned are, in part, aimed at the people who will be sitting on the jurys that decide this issue. If you've got the potential jury pool convinced that the gun makers are 'bad people', HCI has won the battle.

Of course they want to turn to offshore gun makers. Then the Gonad-in-Chief can sign a Executive Order banning the imports without having to go through Congress. Remember the ban on the Chinese weapons? And the Bush ban on importing ANY 'assault weapons'?

LawDog
 
I have sent an e-mail message to Smith & Wesson asking for a verification on whether or not this is true.

However, Colt Manufacturing Co. does not accept e-mail. I sent them a snail-mail message, but I don't expect a reply for a while. The fact that they don't accept e-mail irritates me, so without further ado here is Colt's address. Feel free to write a letter or two:

Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc.
PO Box 1868
Hartford, CT 06144-1868
Phone: 860-236-6311
Fax: 860-244-1442

The Glock website is under construction, so no joy there. (I never liked Glocks anyway)

LawDog
 
Colt's Cuts Role Of Handguns In Revamping
Wall Street Journal
Page A3
September 29, 1999
Byline: Paul M. Barrett; Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
Colt's Manufacturing Co., the storied gun maker, is restructuring in a
way that will shrink significantly its role in producing handguns for the
consumer market.
The restructuring stems from several causes, but in one sense it
is the most drastic response so far by a major gun maker to the wave
of municipal litigation pending against the firearm industry. Lawsuits
filed by 27 cities and counties across the country specifically target
the sort of handguns that Colt's is planning to move away from.
Internal company documents show Colt's, West Hartford, Conn., is
in the process of spinning off into a separate company its
controversial project aimed at producing a high-tech "smart gun" that
can only be fired by an authorized user.
The documents also indicate the remaining core business will be
focused more narrowly on production of military small arms, an area
that Colt's has emphasized heavily over the past two years. New York
financiers Donald Zilkha and John Rigas, who control the manufacturer,
have used Colt's as a vehicle to acquire other makers of small
military arms, and the restructuring appears to be another step in
that direction. In fact, there are rumors in the gun business that
Colt's is close to a new acquisition of a rival, but those rumors
couldn't be confirmed.
While immediate plans for the company's well-known lines of
consumer handguns aren't clear from the documents that were reviewed,
the documents do show that litigation against the gun industry has
been a major concern to Colt's owners. Messrs. Zilkha and Rigas have
indicated in the past that they would consider getting out of consumer
handgun manufacturing as a way of trying to minimize their exposure to
the municipal lawsuits.
Messrs. Zilkha and Rigas didn't return telephone messages.
Steven Sliwa, chief executive of Colt's, said he is going to head the
new high-tech spinoff, which is known as iColt. Retired Gen. William Keys, a
Colt's board member, will take over the remaining core Colt's business,
focusing
on military small arms.
"Gen. Keys and I are looking forward to working together on the
two ventures and taking Colt's into the 21st century," Mr. Sliwa said.
Among major gun makers, Colt's has been among the most determined
to send signals that it wants to resolve the municipal litigation
without a protracted and expensive court fight. But a quick settlement
of the suits doesn't appear to be part of the restructuring plan, and
lawyers representing Colt's are continuing to try to get those suits
dismissed.
The commercial handgun segment of Colt's business produces about
30% of revenue but a larger share of profit, because margins are
greater in that segment than in military sales, the company documents
show. Nevertheless, Messrs. Zilkha and Rigas are said to see the
commercial handgun market as too risky to remain a major part of the
overall business.
The company has struggled financially for more than 15 years,
seeing itself surpassed by more nimble competitors in markets ranging
from law enforcement to military rifles. A Zilkha-led group bought the
company while it was in bankruptcy-court proceedings in 1994 and since
then, Colt's has won back some important U.S. military contracts for
its M-16 family of rifles, among other weapons. In December 1998,
Colt's also completed its acquisition of Saco Defense Corp., a smaller
maker of military arms, and remains in the hunt for another
acquisition in the area.
In 1998, Colt's and Saco had combined revenue of about $136
million and operating profit of $13.4 million, said a person familiar
with both companies' results.
One risk the restructuring creates is a negative reaction from
activist gun owners, who could perceive a withdrawal from the consumer
handgun market as another indication of Colt's bending to gun-control
proponents. Gun owners in New Jersey, California and other states
mounted a boycott of Colt's products last year, partly in response to
the company's development of the smart gun, which also was seen as a
manifestation of weakness in response to gun foes.
On the other hand, by spinning off iColt, Colt's may be able to
distance itself from the smart-gun controversy.
The smart gun is an effort to use microprocessor technology to
prevent the misuse of guns by children, thieves or other unauthorized
users. Colt's has developed a prototype handgun that can fire only
when the trigger is pulled by someone wearing a wristband that emits a
coded radio signal that is received by a computer microchip in the
gun's handle. Still unreliable as recently as this spring, when it was
demonstrated for The Wall Street Journal, the smart gun is ultimately
seen as a product that would appeal to middle-class consumers who
wouldn't otherwise buy a gun because of safety concerns.
Several other major gun companies, including Smith & Wesson Corp.,
a unit of Britain's Tomkins PLC, are scrambling to perfect smart-gun
models, but it remains to be seen whether the idea will succeed
commercially and whether pro-gun activists will punish companies that
identify themselves with the smart gun.
----
Copyright (c) 1999 Dow Jones and Company, Inc.

------------------
will you stand with me in DC on 10-2-99?
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/LibMarch
 
I am sure glad I didn'r invest like I was wanting to some years ago... I would have gotten sunk. I went SUN MICROSYSTEMS instead... Doing pretty good still.

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Boy, brilliant name for a company (iColt) trying to "distance itself" from a company called Colt. Smartgun technology is very evil, and must be stopped. Are you going to wear the wristband all the time, in which case you are "labeled" to the public and LEOs as an antisocial deviant gun owner, or are you just going to ask the robber nicely to hang on a minute while you put your wristband on so you can shoot him?
 
It may seem grim to start with but it would be the best thing that could happen to the industry, I will guarantee that their place will be taken by small hungry companies who will be much more responsible to the public than the big companies that feel we are privileged to do business with them. There would have been a bunch of small manufacturers if they would have been able to compete with the advertising dollars of the big 3. The research done by the large companies were to cut cost and not improve product. Give the small companies support and they will do to the pistol industry what we have done to the rifle industry . That is produce a much higher quality and better performing product than that of the large companies who for 50 years thought that it was them who established the demand and supply. And there would not be the large law suits as there would be no deep pockets that there is now.
 
Gale McMillan makes a good point. The firearms market is changing but not necessarily for the worse. Smaller manufacturers who are more reponsive to consumer needs and interested in genuine technological development (rather than political posturing) will help the industry and make it more exciting. The older and larger companies who cut lawyerly deals to accomplish who-knows-what deserve all the bad luck that a free market can bring down upon them.
 
I got a reply to the e-mail I sent to Smith & Wesson: they have no intention of shutting down handgun production or denying the sale of ANY handguns to the general public. Any rumors to the contrary are just rumors.

Now for Colt...

LawDog
 
I hope you guys don't mind a Brit dropping by with a suggestion but why don't the gun manufacturers counter sue?

As I understand it the Government claims the Brady law has prevented thousands of felons obtaining handguns illegally. Yet how many prosecutions have resulted? No more than a handful.

Now given that it illegal for a felon to try to buy a firearm clearly the Government has been negligent by failing to prosecute.

I'm sure there are plenty of other similar laws that a Brit like me wouldn't be aware of. There should be plenty of scope for a lawsuit concerning Government negligence by failing to prosecute.

Can you not use the law to fight back?

------------------
"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).
 
To whom it may concern:

Colt's web site is www.colt.com. Thereon, they responded to the WSJ article, which I personally have not seen as yet.

In any event, Colt says, my paraphrase, that they are staying in the commercial business, though some particular products, depending on sales, might be eliminated, and now items brought out.

This can be taken at face value, or not, to the readers choice. Only time will tell, anyone have any CONCRETE information re Browning departing the domestic handgun market??

From what I can tell, there are a number of rumours floating around, floated by person or persons UNKNOWN. They might be true, in whole or in part, but I wonder as to where they come from, seems as if the anti-gunners are not above sowing discent, argument, angst and fear.
 
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