should we rush about "building nations" or should we straighten ourselves out first?

There are billions of Muslims, whould take quite awhile to whomp the tar out of them. A proposition that should be avoided. We need to set down and examine our national policy as concerns the middle east, let them kill each other off. The second thing we need to do is examine our national energy policy and fix it so the oil producing Arab nations can let other countries be dependent on them.

Taking on the muslims would be like the story where the Japanese guy tells tells General Chang-Kai, we kill ten of your Chinese for every Japanese soldier that dies. Chang looks at him and says pretty soon no more Japanese.
 
Alan
we should have a better idea of what we are getting into than we seem to have recently had though.

If the foregoing "paints me liberal" in your view, so be it. I think that you might have a problem with color vision.
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For the first part it would seem to make sense... but while we are surmising and threatening and researching and devining methods... the people continue in their suffering...

It is like sitting on the front porch and having a drink and mulling over what we think we should do... while the wife of our neighbor is being beaten to death on her front porch.

As for the second part... The first part is a self-serving liberal attitude instead of a self-sacrificing ACTION.

This is an essential difference between Liberals and conservatives.
There isn't anything wrong with my Primary Colors vision.

That said, I think you are NOT a Liberal because you responded to my remarks in a reasonable and thoughtful manner... and that is a pretty good sign. ;) :)
 
Hey, we can always just sit on the side lines - what's a few million Jews being put to death? A few million Vietnamise, a few million Iraqis? A few million Africans?

Why does it have to take someone dropping bombs in our own backyard to wake people up? To make it right in finally getting off the porch (thanks Pointer)?

Sooner or later you HAVE TO get involved! There ARE people who are evil in this world, murdering thugs like Hitler, Mao, Saddam, Bin Laden, etc. who think their solution is the only solution - no mater how many people they have to murder to see it through. They can't be bargained with, and they can NOT be ignored. They obviously do not know right from wrong. The only way to stop them is to DO SOMETHING - to make them realize their 'final solution' just might not be worth it.

This country ain't perfect, but I do believe we have a pretty good record of being on the side of good, and of sacrifice whenever necessary. And think about the last 100yrs, the wars, the scurges in the world - seems we usually did better when we got involved sooner rather then later.
 
Sooner or later you HAVE TO get involved! There ARE people who are evil in this world, murdering thugs like Hitler, Mao, Saddam, Bin Laden, etc. who think their solution is the only solution - no mater how many people they have to murder to see it through. They can't be bargained with, and they can NOT be ignored. They obviously do not know right from wrong. The only way to stop them is to DO SOMETHING - to make them realize their 'final solution' just might not be worth it.
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yes there are evil men in the world. But the united states, nor any other country, can or should police the world. There are worse men out there today than saddam throughout africa, china and other third world countries that mistreat and brutalize and murder people. Should we go "bring freedom and democracy" to them too?
 
Shield20 wrote:
This country ain't perfect, but I do believe we have a pretty good record of being on the side of good, and of sacrifice whenever necessary. And think about the last 100yrs, the wars, the scurges in the world - seems we usually did better when we got involved sooner rather then later.

Interesting point. I'm not sure that I agree entirely, but an interesting point never-the-less.
 
The countries you named are already engaged in a very subtle nation building and teraforming...

How about self-preservation for a justifiable reason?

Try to look a little further into the future... please? :rolleyes:
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And part of the reason that y'all dislike China and the EU is because they're trying to impose their will and ways on the US. Yet when America does it in the name of "self-preservation" it's justified...

there's a word for that, starts with an h....darn. seems to have slipped my mind
 
Wow - de ja vu! A prominent issue in Bush's speech tonight was this very subject - even stated a few of the things brought up here regards to isolation vs involvment.
 
there's a word for that, starts with an h(ypocrite)....darn. seems to have slipped my mind
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Mind?

Sachel Paige is quoted as having said...
"It's a matter of mind over matter... :)
If I don't mind... it don't matter." :D


It never ceases to amaze me...
How the more a man opens his mouth...
the more he shows his @$$.
 
carbiner ;) :)


Redworm
that's your rebuttal?
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I lose patience with people who don't even try to understand, but just keep poking holes or selectively targeting what they percieve as "chinks" in the armor... They are more interested in causing discord than in getting a good understanding.

To put it simply... I FEAR the Chinese and the tyranny they want to bring to the world... under their power of course... And don't compare the US actions with tyranny... when you've seen tyranny up close and personal, there is no comparison...

I am doubtful about the intentions of the EU towards the US... When I was over there I heard them say resentful things about the Yanks like "They're overpaid, overfed, oversexed and over here." Most of them resent us as all people resent the guy at the top... they're bent on bringing us down...

A story for you;

A boy was watching as a crab fisherman was placing bushels of live crabs on the dock... He asked if the fisherman wasn't afraid the crabs would crawl out and get away? The fisherman said "Nay, crabs are lot like people... as soon as one of them gets to the top... the others reach up and pull him back down."

The day will come when the EU/NATO will regret not backing us in the war on terror and Saddam... Judging by the riots and threats today from the Muslim world... it could be sooner than later.

We are not much of a threat to the nations we "build" because in nearly every case, much to their delight, we have "taught them correct principles and allowed them to govern themselves." We have given the nations BACK TO THE PEOPLE!!!

South Korea, Japan, Philipines, Germany, Arabia, Italy, Afganistan and Iraq, to name a few.

And don't come back with that incredible crap that we are the enemy... that dog don't hunt! :mad:
 
I'm trying to understand but that doesn't stop me from believing that your position is a bit hypocritical. You want to impose your beliefs on others yet you bash on those who want to impose theirs on you.
 
You are either blind (and I don't mean visually impaired) or...

You are full of it!

I believe you are full of yourself...

I've had enough of this crap... I'm outta here! :rolleyes:
 
Sharing my opinions, just like you. Fundamental differences of opinion doesn't make either one of us right or wrong.

Or perhaps you'd rather just discuss issues with people that agree with you on everything? Certainly the easy way to do things.
 
Instead of arguing points you guys team up to make useless jibs and remarks. It's a good thing y'all don't represent conservatives.

If y'all actually care to try discussing the issue like adults: I find it hypocritical to complain about the "nation building" of others while thinking that America's nation building si justified. It's hypocritical to think that it's ok to impose your beliefs on other sovereign countries while refusing to accept it for yourself.

Rebuttal?
 
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The term "nation building" has been marketed as a negative thing. I think nation building is not a bad thing if the construction company is building a better world.

The thought of nation building is distasteful to some.

Redworm is consistent from thread to thread in his belief that US foreign policy is bad. It is his opinion. Nobody should get mad at him. I don't know Redworm but would guess he is probably in his 20's?

Redworm I would like to know one "nation building" or "American imperialism" project which has left the rank and file of the subject nation hating the US or left the subject nation unstable. One project where the US has stolen the resources of the country. One project which has left the subject country a threat to the West (or anyone else). One instance where US assistance has not resulted in an ally nation.

I think the really hypocritical stance is help the poor, feed the hungry, lift the down trodden, demand US standards of justice be extended around the world, but allow murdering, raping, pilfering tyrant dictators to have their way with their impoverished minions. Allow tyrants to threaten the freedom of countries because "the tyrants have rights too"

In a perfect world every nation could be left to their own devises, political system, economic system, etc. and it would have no effect on the freedom of their neighbors or the rest of the world to do the same. We don't live in a perfect world.
 
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