Should people on the terrorist watch list be allowed to buy guns?

400,000 people on the no-fly list.

Think about that number.

400,000.

If you added up all the radicalized members of splinter Minuteman groups, Michigan Militia, KKK, La Raza, AZTLAN, Black Panthers, ALF, ELF, Sierra Club, Islamofascist groups and any other organization you could find in the US, you'd be hard pressed to put together a list of 20k people.

The no-fly is is 40 times the size of a list that would contain all the above "bad" people.

It has no judicial review.

It is one of the great travesties of American Justice and will be remembered 50 or 100 years from now in the same category as the Trail of Tears, Southern Occupation, and Japanese Detention Camps. Not the same degree of travesty (yet), but the same type of flawed judgement.

I earnestly wish for its demise.
 
There are all kinds of inconvenient civil rights that terrorists might be taking advantage of - like the right to a jury trial, the right to due process, the right to tell the public their side of the story. Look at all those loopholes!
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I believe we just spent 8 years trying that exact theory.

"Terrorist watch list" my ass. It's been an open secret for years that people got put on the no-fly list for reasons having nothing to do with terrorism: protesting, political opinions, and just random noise having to do with name matches and other things.

A secret list with no oversight or appeals process violates pretty much every standard of due process. It was grossly illegal when Bush did it, and it's still illegal now. If you've got evidence someone is going to do something, arrest and try them.

Ironically, I've actually met and dealt with one of the Congressional reps who's proposing a bill on this subject. I really thought he had more sense.
 
Why was I on a watch list?...to put it bluntly, appearance and my travel destination and nothing else.
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Not to derail this thread, but...

Holy Cow, Ze! You are a dead ringer for that guy. :eek: Glad you got things sorted out.

Carry on...
 
400,000 people on a secret list. Sheesh. We need A Ron Paul with Hollywood good looks, Obama's silver tongue, and Bloomberg's money. ANYONE? HELLLOOOOO!
 
That's the question being asked on a CNN poll. I read the article and found myself voting "Yes." There are some pretty important civil rights and legal issues here that I think bear discussion on this forum.
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That's because you realize that as an anonymous poster on an internet site dealing with firearms and that occasionally disagrees with the mainstream media and government, you meet the official definition of an "extremist."

The battle for gun control has now transitioned to the battle for outright control. They have are pursuing the tactic of expanding the definition of those who are prohibited from owning guns until the existence of guns themselves is meaningless.
 
So, the logic apparently goes like this:

You are a protester,
Therefore you are a (low-level) terrorist,
Therefore you will be placed on the no-fly list,
Therefore you are relieved of your 2nd amendment rights without due process.
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That's the way I see it.
It becomes a bludgeon to use to strip away fundamental civil rights from anyone who annoys the "powers that be". Just declare them to be terrorists, even if not true, and without due process your civil rights are gone. Where is the burden of proof? Instead of having them prove you are a hazard to society, you have to prove you are not in order to get removed from the list.

This is completely upside down from the way things are supposed to be. This is not justice. This is tyranny.
 
Response to noise

OK, BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING: "Should people on the terrorist watch list be allowed to buy guns?"
 
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I see it, Maestro, but . . . . .

Irrelevent to the topic and trolling a touch.
 
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I think that what I, and many of the others on this forum have to come to terms with is that not only do most politicians in DC, but many if not most Americans, think the BOR is outdated, no longer necessary and pay it absolutely no heed. For some reason it is widely believed in our country that the government has evolved beyond abuses of power and that we now face a greater threat than ever in history. 'Constitutionally guaranteed rights' no longer means anything, to either party. Both parties are more than willing to cut away those rights if they believe it will not impede their chances in the next election.

It seems to me that governments evolve into abusive systems and the Islamic terrorists are probably one of our least threatening foes in history.

I still have not found the poll.
 
Although the poll is exceedingly unscientific and has a slanted participant base I wonder how many of these same people approve of racial profiling and a public opposition to Bush as reasons to ban people from flying or to hassle them more at airports.
Link? Results?
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The poll changes from time to time and is no longer there. The poll of the day is on the right side of the main page about halfway down. When I looked at it it was 89% for using the list to ban firearm sales to "terrorists" and 11% against.
 
it was 89% for using the list to ban firearm sales to "terrorists" and 11% against.
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Of course it was. In the absence of all the information. Now if they were ask whether it is OK to deprive a person of their civil rights due to unsubstantiated claims, there would have been a different result.

"Is it OK to give vodka to an alcoholic?" No, of course not.

"What if he was out in the wilderness and needed it to sterilize a wound?" Oh, that's different.
 
The only thing that concerns me is the potential of legit people unable to purchase guns because of false positives.
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No offense Wallabing but I think you need to consider the a bit further. A nameless group who answers to nobody in particular makes up a secret list (that has no oversight and no review) and if you are on it your rights are suspended.

That should bother EVERYONE!
 
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