Should New Pistols Come With TEST TARGET for Accuracy?

Should new pistols come with test targets?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 37.9%

  • No

    Votes: 49 56.3%

  • Unsure

    Votes: 5 5.7%
  • Total voters
    87
  • Poll closed .
T

TxFlyFish

New member
Or would you take the manufacturers claim of accuracy? After researching accuracy issues pertaining to full size 9mm M&P due to barrel lockup I wonder how many of these problems would have been caught had they test fired the pistol for accuracy.

Test target provides

1) An additional PROOF of quality control
2) A piece of mind to the consumer

On the other hand you also have to think about

1) Cost of ammo and additional steps in QC
2) Is it necessary with a proven/tested design with reasonably tight manufacturing tolerances


What do you think?
 
Wrong question, wrong example IMHO. These pistols are supposed to be large capacity, very reliable, minute of bad guy accuracy. When I bought my Les Baer 1911, I want a target. In the end I believe we're talking apples and oranges.
 
Thats what I thought at first but without digressing too much into M&Ps...the issue is very well docummented by both APEX and pistol-training with multiple test guns with recent production. Were not talking target/comp accuracy here but FS M&P9 have large variations in accuracy 8-10in to sub 3in under same shooting conditions. Strangely this is not observed in 40sw and 45acp models
 
I don't think it's necessary. I've bought rifles that did, but it means nothing to me. I don't know the conditions, ammo, etc those targets were fired.

Example, I bought a CZ 452 that came with one of those targets, Nice, except I can't shoot groups like that. I shoot most of my 22s in offhand, like the NRA Light Rifle so that little bitty group does me no good.

I doubt there is a quality firearm out there that can't out shoot me.

It does me no good to know that a pistol/revolver shoots "X" groups from the bench when I don't shoot from the bench.

I don't think it should be mandatory, but I see nothing wrong with it as an advertising gimmick, but it doesn't affect me one way or the other.
 
No test targets

I'll check my own targets out real quick like. If I can't tune it in where I want it then I'll take that up with the manufacturer.
 
Very good points. It would not make much difference considering the "combat accuracy" at offhand position, and of course because we cannot replicate the conditions at which the pistols are fired at factory

BUT

If I presented to you two M&P9...same batch both test fired at factory under same conditions (eg same ammo 5 shot group from rest)

M&P #1 shot 4" at 15yds
M&P #2 shot 2" at 15yds

When you open the inspect the gun at LGS and see the test targets which would you pick? Theyre both combat accurate, both meet S&W QC

Personally i do not believe we use "combat accuracy" appropriately. We know that a trained person would shoot at only a fraction of his/her best in stress...so I would want as much accuracy out of my pistol as possible. We should strive for "combat accuracy" in stress...

If the pistol is only able to achieve "combat accuracy" at rest how much worse is it when we use it offhand in stress! ;)
 
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When you open the inspect the gun at LGS and see the test targets which would you pick? Theyre both combat accurate, both meet S&W QC
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What happens when a dealer has 15 identical pistols in stock and a buyer insists on inspecting the test targets for every single one, ruler in hand? :rolleyes:

What happens when a buyer takes his pistol home, then comes back to the dealer with a story that his buddy's pistol has a better test target, and insists that the dealer needs to send the gun back or replace it with another one from stock?

If they're both combat accurate and both pass S&W QC, what good has really been accomplished here?

If I were the proverbial dealer, I would soon be ordering my employees to remove and shred the test target from each incoming pistol when it arrives. :)
 
If you question the manufacturer's claimed accuracy, what does a target prove? It can say that Joe Smith shot it outdoors at 75 feet using Winchester USA ammo when, in reality, it was shot indoors out of a Ransom rest at 15 feet using match ammo.

How do you know?
 
Well that was a bad example on my part about meeting QC. The fact is in the case of MP which now is a proven platform, SW would have caught these full size 9mm MP had they done a accuracy test. We're not talking about an inch here but up to 7 or more inches of deviation. And what about kimber solos? Would it have benefited from test target?

The manufacturers claim is valid only in a correctly made gun. I trust SW claim but things slip thru QC and a test target is a very good last check before they ship it off
 
Sure but not all that important to me.

I voted yes but only that I think it would be a nice thing to have. However, I don't think it's a must. .... ;)

I do understand that there are some pistols that require this documentation and the one that comes to mind, is the older Ruger Government models.

Be Safe !!!
 
I expect it on a high end gun ....like a 1911 from Wilson Combat, on a Sig X-Five, a Freedom Arms SAA ....or something like that ..../ partly because I'm paying extra for the accuracy that - that specific gun can deliver - and its an idication of the time and effort the mfg put into fitting and fine tuning that gun to their / and my specs.

But even on those guns...will I ever be able to shoot it that accurately ...no !
But I still appreciate the craftmanship - that it took to get that gun, to that level of performance.


Does it matter to me on a production gun ...no, not really.
 
But even on those guns...will I ever be able to shoot it that accurately ...no ! But I still appreciate the craftmanship - that it took to get that gun, to that level of performance.
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Just so. My Walther GSP Expert .22 target pistol came with a factory test target - 5 shots in one not-very-ragged hole at 25 meters. Very humbling.

With regard to the M&P and similar guns, I'm much more interested in function and reliability than I am in "accuracy" (recognizing that we're really talking about precision here), but that doesn't mean that anything that goes "bang" is OK. I know, from having taken the factory tour, that S&W tests each semi-auto pistol by firing one full magazine with it. I assume they're primarily, perhaps exclusively, testing function rather than accuracy, but didn't think to ask when I had the opportunity. I think as part of that testing they could also confirm, at no to minimal extra cost and effort, that the gun isn't shooting, say, 10" groups at 7 yards and, for fixed-sighted guns, is centered acceptably close to the point of aim. I don't think we can reasonably expect more than that without being willing to pay a good bit more for the product.
 
With the prices they charge nowadays for a 1911 or similar steel-framed pistol, they should come with a holster and 3 magazines in addition to a test target.
 
Walther, HK (and others) provide targets (ie PPK, P99, P7) which are the final test of a handgun's quality. Much appreciated.

Who would knowingly buy an inaccurate handgun?

Accuracy is everything.
 
It depends.

If I purchase a match grade semi custom weapon, I expect it to come with Match grade custom weapon performance and a proof target.

If I purchase a rack grade weapon, then I do not expect a target.

If I commission a gunsmith to build the weapon , then I expect to shoot the weapon to ensure that it meets the agreed specifications.
 
It seems somewhat contradictory of our expectations. No one would buy an eight inch grouping pistol even if its rack grade ...actually nowadays it would be considered faulty
 
I don't think it's necessary. I've bought rifles that did, but it means nothing to me. I don't know the conditions, ammo, etc those targets were fired.
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Well said Kraigwy.

A target doesn't prove any thing.
 
Except that the handgun is capable of putting them all dead center...and if some perp is holding a knife to my daughter's throat that's the kind of handgun I want.
 
No, it will drive up the production cost which is passed on to the customer.

There are too many variables such as ammunition, the shooter, enviromental conditions and the list could go on.

Why test every gun for a possible problem with one gun in a hundred thousand.
 
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