Should I still cotton to S&W?
- Thread starter internetfish
- Start date
suckersrus
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grapeshot:
...when I see there isn't a whole lot of independent thought going on...
[/B][/quote]
I think you hit the X-Ring.
I pay for service or quality (or both). I'm willing to take some crap if the quality is high enough.
I will not cut off my nose to spite my face i.e. buy Tarus (Inferior quality) simply because I disagree with S&W's politics.
I think I owe it to my family and myself to have the best.
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Wear your PFD
...when I see there isn't a whole lot of independent thought going on...
[/B][/quote]
I think you hit the X-Ring.
I pay for service or quality (or both). I'm willing to take some crap if the quality is high enough.
I will not cut off my nose to spite my face i.e. buy Tarus (Inferior quality) simply because I disagree with S&W's politics.
I think I owe it to my family and myself to have the best.
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Wear your PFD
"Not intentionally. But I will speak my mind, especially when I see there isn't a whole lot of independent thought going on."
Who says that there is not a whole lot of independent thought going on? This board is one place where everybody pretty much speaks their mind. That is quite an assumption on your part and personally I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who posted on this thread. Who wasn't thinking independently? Which post are you referring to?
Believe me I don't feel persecuted. My Dad would love to destroy S&W for what they did but he is still going to get a Model 41 no matter what. That's his choice and I honor that.
Bullying newbies? Where did that come from? By the way, not everyone who posts on a board is what they seem. Just because they post as a new member doesn't mean they are some know nothing that is going to make their final decision by what they read on this board.
I didn't see anyone castigated for their opinion until the term "grave-spitters" came up. Lighten up.
You never know Grapeshot, I might come looking to buy a S&W some years down the road.
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The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Who says that there is not a whole lot of independent thought going on? This board is one place where everybody pretty much speaks their mind. That is quite an assumption on your part and personally I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who posted on this thread. Who wasn't thinking independently? Which post are you referring to?
Believe me I don't feel persecuted. My Dad would love to destroy S&W for what they did but he is still going to get a Model 41 no matter what. That's his choice and I honor that.
Bullying newbies? Where did that come from? By the way, not everyone who posts on a board is what they seem. Just because they post as a new member doesn't mean they are some know nothing that is going to make their final decision by what they read on this board.
I didn't see anyone castigated for their opinion until the term "grave-spitters" came up. Lighten up.
You never know Grapeshot, I might come looking to buy a S&W some years down the road.
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The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
Kentucky Rifle
New member
After reading some very good articles regarding the .32 H&R magnum cartridge, I decided that I wanted to add a snub chambered for that round to my little collection. I first looked for the Taurus Total Ti model 731. Even though Taurus advertised it in their titanium lineup, I couldn't find one anywhere. I don't even think that Taurus is making the model. I then looked at the offerings from Smith&Wesson. I was pleased to note that they make models 331 ad 332 in thier Airlight Titanium format. Each weighs about 12 ounces. I'd go buy one tomorrow if it wasn't for "the agreement".
Sigh...we have to stick together. I'm hoping that after George Bush wins the election S&W can do something to redeem themselves.
I'm taking a wait and see stance.
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
Sigh...we have to stick together. I'm hoping that after George Bush wins the election S&W can do something to redeem themselves.
I'm taking a wait and see stance.
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
Go C.R. Sam! And thanks, FUD.
Forming a grass-roots effort to purchase Smith and Wesson is what we should all be doing instead of arguing over this.
SKSman,
"Who says that there is not a whole lot of independent thought going on?
"personally I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who posted on this thread."
To those who felt like a "slap-in-the-face":
THAT WAS THE POINT!
I hope it made people think, "Hey, just what are the reasons I jumped on the Anti-"&" Bandwagon, anyway?"
Or, "Hey, why the heck am I calling it the '&' company?"
Or, "Why am I scrutinizing them any more than Colt or Ruger, who have also collaborated with the Klintonistas?"
I wasn't trying to offend anybody, just make people think a little!
"Bullying newbies? Where did that come from? "
That comes from watching this board, SKSman. Ever notice how anybody who posts anything positive about a Smith gun always qualifies it by insisting they want a "PRE-SELLOUT" gun? Know why they do it? They're mostly good folks who are simply trying to avoid being sucked into an off-topic flame war by some zealot who thinks it's not POLITICALLY CORRECT for any gunowner to like a new Smith and Wesson. And have you noticed how 99% of posters are referring this "&" nonsense? Where does that come from, anyway? Is saying the name SMITH AND WESSON equivelent to throwing an evil hex now? Again, I'll wager that most people defer because they don't want a fight every time they post about wanting a SMITH AND WESSON (Look, I said it and did not burst into flames! Oh my!).
What I am saying is that these are symbols of "groupthink" going on, not independent thought.
Anytime I see a bunch of people jumping on a bandwagon, I figure that at least some percentage of them are not thinking for themselves - just basic human psychology, not any personal denigration of you or anyone else. Again, just my OPINION, and maybe worth exactly what it cost you, nothing.
As for newbies, ever notice how every time someone new to handguns asks something like, "I'm new to guns, what's the best .45/9mm/357/44/22/etc." that 50 people chime in "Oh you don't want any SMITH AND WESSONS after what they've done! In fact if you see one, take a blow torch to it for the sake of liberty!"
Again, their politics suck, but SMITH AND WESSON makes some fine guns for starting out as a handgunner.
Sigh.
"I didn't see anyone castigated for their opinion until the term "grave-spitters" came up. Lighten up."
Um, if you took "grave-spitters" personally, and you feel castigated by it despite the fact that 99% of this board would love that label, then (with all due respect) YOU need to lighten up. None of this was meant as a personal insult to you; I have learned a great deal from your posts and never intended to offend you or hurt your feelings.
Warmest Regards,
Grapeshot
Forming a grass-roots effort to purchase Smith and Wesson is what we should all be doing instead of arguing over this.
SKSman,
"Who says that there is not a whole lot of independent thought going on?
"personally I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who posted on this thread."
To those who felt like a "slap-in-the-face":
THAT WAS THE POINT!
I hope it made people think, "Hey, just what are the reasons I jumped on the Anti-"&" Bandwagon, anyway?"
Or, "Hey, why the heck am I calling it the '&' company?"
Or, "Why am I scrutinizing them any more than Colt or Ruger, who have also collaborated with the Klintonistas?"
I wasn't trying to offend anybody, just make people think a little!
"Bullying newbies? Where did that come from? "
That comes from watching this board, SKSman. Ever notice how anybody who posts anything positive about a Smith gun always qualifies it by insisting they want a "PRE-SELLOUT" gun? Know why they do it? They're mostly good folks who are simply trying to avoid being sucked into an off-topic flame war by some zealot who thinks it's not POLITICALLY CORRECT for any gunowner to like a new Smith and Wesson. And have you noticed how 99% of posters are referring this "&" nonsense? Where does that come from, anyway? Is saying the name SMITH AND WESSON equivelent to throwing an evil hex now? Again, I'll wager that most people defer because they don't want a fight every time they post about wanting a SMITH AND WESSON (Look, I said it and did not burst into flames! Oh my!).
What I am saying is that these are symbols of "groupthink" going on, not independent thought.
Anytime I see a bunch of people jumping on a bandwagon, I figure that at least some percentage of them are not thinking for themselves - just basic human psychology, not any personal denigration of you or anyone else. Again, just my OPINION, and maybe worth exactly what it cost you, nothing.
As for newbies, ever notice how every time someone new to handguns asks something like, "I'm new to guns, what's the best .45/9mm/357/44/22/etc." that 50 people chime in "Oh you don't want any SMITH AND WESSONS after what they've done! In fact if you see one, take a blow torch to it for the sake of liberty!"
Again, their politics suck, but SMITH AND WESSON makes some fine guns for starting out as a handgunner.
Sigh.
"I didn't see anyone castigated for their opinion until the term "grave-spitters" came up. Lighten up.
"Um, if you took "grave-spitters" personally, and you feel castigated by it despite the fact that 99% of this board would love that label, then (with all due respect) YOU need to lighten up. None of this was meant as a personal insult to you; I have learned a great deal from your posts and never intended to offend you or hurt your feelings.
Warmest Regards,
Grapeshot
internetfish
New member
Guys,
This has been a cool thread and I really appreciate all the cool thoughts you have thrown into the pot. I would love to have an older Smith, esp. the M&P models. Did they make these in just .38 or were there some .357s among them? Thanks again...
This has been a cool thread and I really appreciate all the cool thoughts you have thrown into the pot. I would love to have an older Smith, esp. the M&P models. Did they make these in just .38 or were there some .357s among them? Thanks again...
Guy's, maybe I'm going against the grain here; but I purchased a NIB Smith & Wesson
Model 629-5 Classic with the 5" barrel, and
it is a superb piece. Very good action, no
flaws or tool marks, whatsoever; I guess the
people in Springfield still CAN produce top
quality firearms. Too bad the guru's in Great
Britian signed the stupid agreement with the
Klinton cronies.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Model 629-5 Classic with the 5" barrel, and
it is a superb piece. Very good action, no
flaws or tool marks, whatsoever; I guess the
people in Springfield still CAN produce top
quality firearms. Too bad the guru's in Great
Britian signed the stupid agreement with the
Klinton cronies.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grapeshot: ... Hey, why the heck am I calling it the '&' company? ...[/quote]Good point. The name is 'Smith & Wesson' or 'S&W' not '*&*' or 'Sellout & Washed-up' or any of that nonsense -- name calling should have went out in grammer school.
I don't think that anyone here is saying that what S&W did is correct but as others have pointed out, it is not the job of a privately owned company (owned by a British corporation, no less) to fight our 2nd Amendment rights. After all, they are merely 'agreeing' to terms and conditions that OUR govenment has requested of them ... OUR government which is run by the people that WE elect into office. If OUR justice system would not allow OUR elected mayors and other elected & appointed officials to sue gun makers for the acts committed by third parties, this agreement would have never even happened.
After all you don't see MADD suing Ford because their cars were not equiped with some type of 'drunk meter' preventing a drunk driver from driving. If you don't like what's going on, then do something about it:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Join the NRA and give them your financial support -- they may not be the best but they are the biggest and our first line of defense. There are 80,000,000 gun owners in this country but the NRA's membership is only around 4,000,000!
<LI> Write to newspapers & magazines which paint a negative picture of guns. A few dozen letters might not have much of an effect but a million would. Again, there are 80,000,000 gun owners -- if only 1% wrote in, newspapers & magazines would take notice of 800,000 letters and change their editorial position with regard to firearms.
<LI> Contact your elected official whenever new gun laws are being considered and make your feelings known -- after all, it is OUR government!
<LI> And since it is OUR government, go out and vote!</UL>
I don't think that anyone here is saying that what S&W did is correct but as others have pointed out, it is not the job of a privately owned company (owned by a British corporation, no less) to fight our 2nd Amendment rights. After all, they are merely 'agreeing' to terms and conditions that OUR govenment has requested of them ... OUR government which is run by the people that WE elect into office. If OUR justice system would not allow OUR elected mayors and other elected & appointed officials to sue gun makers for the acts committed by third parties, this agreement would have never even happened.
After all you don't see MADD suing Ford because their cars were not equiped with some type of 'drunk meter' preventing a drunk driver from driving. If you don't like what's going on, then do something about it:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Join the NRA and give them your financial support -- they may not be the best but they are the biggest and our first line of defense. There are 80,000,000 gun owners in this country but the NRA's membership is only around 4,000,000!
<LI> Write to newspapers & magazines which paint a negative picture of guns. A few dozen letters might not have much of an effect but a million would. Again, there are 80,000,000 gun owners -- if only 1% wrote in, newspapers & magazines would take notice of 800,000 letters and change their editorial position with regard to firearms.
<LI> Contact your elected official whenever new gun laws are being considered and make your feelings known -- after all, it is OUR government!
<LI> And since it is OUR government, go out and vote!</UL>
FUD, you are dead accurate on this one. The only people we can really blame for this sad state of affairs is OURSELVES, since all this nonsense started with our own anti-gun government. The Brits can't change that for us, only we can.
Rights go hand in hand with RESPONSIBILITY. This means precisely the grass-roots political action you prescribe. I for one am not going to leave every little battle I see for the NRA to fight - if we all stood up individually everytime we saw anti-gun foolishness, it would die out tomorrow. But, I have not, preferring to leave it to the professional lobbyists. Well, that plan hasn't work. Lobbyists will only be demonized, but they can't ignore the citizenry.
Best Regards to All,
Grapeshot
Rights go hand in hand with RESPONSIBILITY. This means precisely the grass-roots political action you prescribe. I for one am not going to leave every little battle I see for the NRA to fight - if we all stood up individually everytime we saw anti-gun foolishness, it would die out tomorrow. But, I have not, preferring to leave it to the professional lobbyists. Well, that plan hasn't work. Lobbyists will only be demonized, but they can't ignore the citizenry.
Best Regards to All,
Grapeshot
Grapeshot and FUD have excellent points.
I probably won't buy a new S&W but
having a sensible argument is useful.
I get flamed plenty on this board. Since I am an old fart, I don't particularly care.
But being politically correct is silly for us. If you think supporting SW is reasonable that is your right and I will read your reasons for it.
I probably won't buy a new S&W but
having a sensible argument is useful.
I get flamed plenty on this board. Since I am an old fart, I don't particularly care.
But being politically correct is silly for us. If you think supporting SW is reasonable that is your right and I will read your reasons for it.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Ala Dan, I would be being less than honest if I did not say that I am disappointed to read that you purchased a new Smith & Wesson if it came from a restocking dealer. The Smith boycott is the first true show of unity that gun owners have demonstrated. There are several new Smiths that I would like as well however my commitment to the RKBA prevents me from buying them.
That aside have you had the side plate off of that new Smith? You might be surprised once you begin taking it apart. If you work on it with some fine (1500 grit) sand paper you will begin to see fine tooling marks in the exterior surface. It isn't that these are particularlly important but they were not present on guns built a few years ago. With heavy loads I can see these fine tooling marks leading to stress cracks years down the road.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
That aside have you had the side plate off of that new Smith? You might be surprised once you begin taking it apart. If you work on it with some fine (1500 grit) sand paper you will begin to see fine tooling marks in the exterior surface. It isn't that these are particularlly important but they were not present on guns built a few years ago. With heavy loads I can see these fine tooling marks leading to stress cracks years down the road.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Just a thought, but I believe that most economists would say that you are not fully supporting a boycott when you switch from buying the new product to buying the product used. If would be boycott supporters buy up all of the used guns, that leaves only the new ones for those who don't support the boycott to buy. If the used ones were around, some of the buyers not concerned with the boycott would likely buy them. So, although I am not commenting on whether you should or should not boycott S&W, I think that those in favor of the boycott should think about the impact of buying used guns.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Well that's just great then. I'll just boycott the damned economists to!
Gunslinger; Yep, I bought a new S&W 629-5 Classic a few months ago. Whether or not
it was from a restocking dealer; I don't
know? No sir, I haven't had the side plate
off!!! I feel it was what I wanted at the
time; boycott or no boycott? As long as it
gives me good service; it will rest right
along side the rest of the Smith's that are
in my collection!!!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
it was from a restocking dealer; I don't
know? No sir, I haven't had the side plate
off!!!
I feel it was what I wanted at thetime; boycott or no boycott? As long as it
gives me good service; it will rest right
along side the rest of the Smith's that are
in my collection!!!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member