Should firearms in National Parks be illegal ?

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Hook686

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http://news.yahoo.com/visitors-evacuated-rainier-gunman-sought-140924556.html

It has been legal for people to take loaded firearms into Mount Rainier since 2010, when a federal law went into effect that made possession of firearms in national parks subject to state gun laws.

Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts that will happen in today's political climate.
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Some folks think that laws prohibiting firearms in National Parks would prevent prevent shootings.

I think that is foolish thinking. Perhaps wishful thinking, but foolish in the final analysis.

Your thoughts ?
 
Woo-hoo another gun free zone. Will it stop the drug growers from shooting at you when you are trespassing on their grow turf? Didn't think so.
 
Bad guys don't follow rules !!!

Should firearms in National Parks be illegal ?
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Absolutely not as we all know, it's wasted effort. We all know how these things play out; The good guys will jump through hoops to follow the rules and the bad guys, won't. That leaves the good guys at the mercy of the bad. A bad law is one you can't or won't be enforce. Years ago, when we went hiking in the Rockies, the rangers "hinted" that it was a good idea to be able to protect yourself. They didn't ask too many questions. ..... ;)

By the way, I define Bad-Guys as anyone that is shooting at you. !!!


Be Safe !!!
 
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All bad guys were good guys until they broke a law. But perhaps you think some people are born bad. At any rate, under the logic some are presenting here, all laws are useless because only good guys obey them.
 
Check out countries with the lowest crime rates.

Recently received an email from a friend which contained a u-tube segment entitled "Why Switzerland is never attacked". Every adult male citizen in Switzerland is part of the military reserve and as such is provided with the military rifle da jeur to keep in their home in case of military mobilization. They are also required to do some training with their "reserve unit" periodically. Besides never being attacked, they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world!

YES, law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry firearms in federal parks and imo, even in federal buildings. Remember the old adage "when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns". Also look back at history at you will learn that one of the first things Hitler did when seizing control of Germany et. al. was to disarm the general population.
 
At any rate, under the logic some are presenting here, all laws are useless because only good guys obey them.
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Prohibitions that infringe on civil rights and do nothing to prevent a harm are useless.
 
Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented.
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Does this moron REALLY believe that a sign saying "No Firearms" would have caused a veteran with PTSD and a car full of guns, ammo and body armor to turn around at the park entrance? If he believes that, he's smoking some good stuff.
 
all laws are useless because only good guys obey them.
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That's the whole point. Laws are only obeyed by Lawful People. That's why there are punishments included in each Law. That punishment part is included for the Bad Guys who don't obey the Law.
I've been in Law Enforcement for right at 35 years. I can't think of a single Law that includes a reward for obeying that Law. You obey the Law because it's in your nature. If it's not in your nature then you have no problem breaking the Law. Punishment is Man's attempt to change the nature of Law Breakers.
 
I can't think of a single Law that includes a reward for obeying that Law. You obey the Law because it's in your nature. If it's not in your nature then you have no problem breaking the Law. Punishment is Man's attempt to change the nature of Law Breakers.
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That is about it in a nutshell.
 
Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts that will happen in today's political climate. All visitors evacuated from Rainier; gunman sought
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The insertion of Bill Wade's opinion on the allowing of firearms in national parks, is incongruous with the rest of the story. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised though, the anti's never miss an opportunity. Allowing firearms in the parks was so law abiding people would could defend themselves against criminals, such as the shooter in the story.
 
quote]Police have said a gunman fled into the woods after shooting Anderson. Barnes, who is believed to have survivalist skills, is also a suspect in a 3 a.m. shooting at a house party in Skyway, Wash., that left four people wounded.

"We're speculating, obviously. The speculation is that he may have come up here, specifically for that reason, to get away," parks spokesman Kevin Bacher said.

"The speculation is he threw some stuff in the car and headed up here to hide out," Bacher said.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm sure if he saw the "no guns allowed" signs he would have just turned around at the entrance.
 
Firearms should be allowed in parks because, in addition to tragedies like this, there is usually a handful of animals in any national park that will eat you alive the first chance they get.
 
Many in the National Park System are really Eco-freaks, not environmentalists and certainly not conservationists.

I got a ticket once in a national park for building a fire outside of a fire ring. Was it in a dangerous area or a fire hazard? No. In fact, I built my own fire ring out of stones. The fire wasn't big and was to dry out the boots of my hiking party as it had rained for days before. There was no reasoning with the ranger. Why was what I did a problem? I was scarring the ground with my fire. Guy wasn't nice about any of it, nervously had his hand on his pistol too.

I got another ticket for not camping in the appropriate campsite (although the campsite was empty). I offered to move to another site nearby. Didn't satisfy ranger. Why were we in the wrong site? A huge storm was coming in, I was hiking with kids and if we stuck to our schedule, we would have had to hike on 45% angle rocks in the rain. Again, no reasoning with him. He told me I had to go back to my original campground. Told him I wasn't going to get a kid hurt hiking on the rocks in the rain, so give me a ticket.

I relate these stories to show the rigid way rules are enforced devoid of reason and how they really put nature first, after people.

After these experiences I started going to national forest wilderness areas.

Should firearms in National Parks be illegal? Of course not. But what we need to realize is that a lot of the National Parks types don't just enjoy nature, they worship it and put it before people.

ALSO (rant mode almost off) the real problem isn't guns in parks or even guns, it's the military deployment tempo being unsustainable and our military's/government's policy of using up and breaking people. That's the policy that should be changed.
 
The real story is the lack of care of our veterans returning from the wars of today. In Viet Nam, you did your tour and came home, end of story. That is those that survived.

Now, the kids are doing multiple tours back to back with no hope of true treatment most the time for their service derived PTSD. Sadly, this kid seems to have fallen through the cracks like so many other veterans who end up in prison or dead instead of getting the help they were promised on condition of voluntary service.

Barnes has had a troubled transition to civilian life, with accusations he suffers post-traumatic stress disorder and is suicidal.

He was involved in a custody dispute in July, during which his toddler daughter's mother sought a temporary restraining order against him, according to court documents. The woman told authorities he was suicidal and possibly suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder after deploying to Iraq in 2007-2008, and had once sent her a text message saying "I want to die."

She alleged that he gets easily irritated, angry and depressed and keeps an arsenal of weapons in his home. She wrote that she feared for the child's safety. Undated photos provided by police showed a shirtless, tattooed Barnes brandishing two large weapons.

In November 2011, a guardian ad litem recommended parenting and communication classes for both parents and recommending Barnes be allowed to continue supervised visits with the child, two days a week.
That visitation schedule was to continue until he completed a domestic violence evaluation and mental health evaluation and complied with all treatment recommendations.
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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/0...al-park-ranger-shot-and-killed/#ixzz1iL7EKTdM

Yes, this man is ultimately responsible for his own actions, but there are interventions that do help and this is a kid that needed that intervention. I saw a special a while back on all of the PTSD veterans in jail for murder in the last few years. It is a very eye opening documentary. You can't submit someone to the type of modern warfare as in the Middle east today and then just have them shut it off here in the states. PTSD is a very real entity that I saw up front and personal after the first gulf war as a Military doc.

It appears that his unstable nature was known by his family and that he had a house full of weapons. I believe that is the real story of this tragedy compounded by the current lack of support for these young veterans who don't hang out at the VFW like many in other generations where there is in a real sense a bit of group therapy that takes place with veterans with shared experiences. I believe that the military and the VA owe these folks better avenues of transition back into civilian life. Once again, many have had successful interventions prior to life changing tragic events. I would like to know more about what the VA and military attempted for this man that is not alone in this type of behavior when returning.

Unfortunately, this will not be the last tragic PTSD story that we hear about.
 
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The real story is the lack of care of our veterans returning from the wars of today.
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So very true, and so very tragic that men and women who risked their lives and well-being in the service of their country are then left to try and pick up the pieces on their own.
 
Some folks think that laws prohibiting firearms in National Parks would prevent shootings.

I think that is foolish thinking.
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Yup.

It's not the tool, it's the behavior that concerns me.

It doesn't make any sense to ban cars because people drive drunk, or get into accidents. It's the behavior, not the car.

Firearms are not the problem, behavior is the problem.
 
Now, the kids are doing multiple tours back to back with no hope of true treatment most the time for their service derived PTSD. Sadly, this kid seems to have fallen through the cracks like so many other veterans who end up in prison or dead instead of getting the help they were promised on condition of voluntary service.
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Maybe. Or maybe he was just a thug all along. We will likely never know for sure now, he is dead.

I won't deny PTSD is a problem, however it is not the source of every problem.

I believe that is the real story of this tragedy compounded by the current lack of support for these young veterans who don't hang out at the VFW like many in other generations where there is in a real sense a bit of group therapy that takes place with veterans with shared experiences.
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It is hard for the younger generation to connect at the VFW with people. At my post I am already eligible for retirement yet the next youngest member is ten years older than me. They seem to spend a lot of time sitting around the bar drinking and not so much time doing other things.
 
ALSO (rant mode almost off) the real problem isn't guns in parks or even guns, it's the military deployment tempo being unsustainable and our military's/government's policy of using up and breaking people. That's the policy that should be changed.
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Bingo!!!!

US troops have been run ragged. i know numerous Army guys who have had five or six foreign tours since 911. i sometimes hunt with a guy who is well aware that he has problems. The man has done three tours in Iraq and two in Afghanistan. He's an E-8 with almost 18 years service. If he complains the US Army will kick him out with little or no treatment and no retirement. Then he would go into an overcrowded, understaffed and underfunded VA system.

Sadly, incidents like the one in the park are the price we pay a for a small volunteer Army.
 
Really, there are two types of gun laws:

Laws restricting what you can have, and laws restricting where you can have them.

The rationale behind the former is that, if you can't get guns, the bad guys can't either. The rationale behind the latter is that guns are dangerous and people should not have them, especially in certain areas.

Both use flawed logic; the latter is even worse than the former. Efforts to regulate firearms in federal areas has been a battle that has been waged for many years, and of the national park debate is one of the weakest arguments anti-gun people have. Sadly, the opposition persists.

Should guns be allowed in national parks? Absolutely.
 
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