Shotgun = Sledgehammer

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I, with a puppy, live in an RV. We travel a lot and always spend nights in an RV Park, thinking that RV Parks would be more "safe" than Walmarts or rest areas. However-----

I am prepared for a knock on the door at any place and at any hour. I am also prepared to be "invaded" by one or more knowledgeable folks who have experience in RV weaknesses. If I were to discharge a shotgun, puppy and would be living in the outside for a while.

At my age and abilities, I am interested in SD and only SD. I practice and practice for SD and am concerned primarily with SD in the RV. I offer that---

One's primary situation of probable SD actions should help select the primary weapon of use. I have no dislikes toward shotguns, but in my most likely situation of invasion I prefer a handgun. The holes in our "house" made by handguns are easier to plug.
 
normal hunting type shotguns are "really" at a disadvantage when it comes to dangerous animals that hunt back
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I have 2 close friends that used them extensively in combat ( Nam) that would not agree with that statement.;)
 
I know the old saying: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

I've been a participant of this, and other Forums, for some time now, and it never ceases to amaze me that there is, at one time or another, someone planning tactics for the end of the world. I whole-heartedly agree that each and everyone of us should be prepared for various life situations. Agreed that each incident is unique unto itself but there are only several basic scenarios that exist: 1. Home invasion by a single intruder. 2. Home invasion by multiple intruders. 3. Attempted entry into the home by a single force. 4. Attempted entry into the home by a multiple force. (5. If you have another one, let's hear it.)

Please understand that I am not trying to demean anyone. Perhaps what we could do, as a group, is isolate these four areas and plan for each individual scenario as a team and run different "what if" types of plays with different types of weapons and see who has the best plan and then we can put this stuff to rest once and for all.

As for myself, I have a plan for each of the 4 variable above and it involves a 1911, an AR-15, and a shotgun. The only weapon that comes into play on more than one occasion is the 1911. One thing that no one seems to be planning for is the insurgency that may take place one day, given the way the political and economic atmosphere is going....but that is a whole different thread.

Just an idea, and maybe a good way to get to know one another here, perhaps we could break into two or three or four man teams. Each team PM each other and work out details of the scenarios as I explained above. At a predetermined time, each team will post their tactics to a thread and then we will put it up for vote as to which team stands the best chance of survival.
Once this is complete, perhaps the sky will stop falling and the end of the world as we know it may be staved off for another day.
 
Being that most "situations" happen within 7 yds I feel the handgun is the better solution for HD. A shotgun or rifle would be much easier to take away. A shotgun or rifle would be much harder to swing around. And it allows the use of the other arm/hand.
 
Just an idea, and maybe a good way to get to know one another here, perhaps we could break into two or three or four man teams. Each team PM each other and work out details of the scenarios as I explained above. At a predetermined time, each team will post their tactics to a thread and then we will put it up for vote as to which team stands the best chance of survival.
Once this is complete, perhaps the sky will stop falling and the end of the world as we know it may be staved off for another day.
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:D

OR, people could stop playing video games and live in the real world.....JMO.
 
I have 2 close friends that used them extensively in combat ( Nam) that would not agree with that statement.
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So what were they using, an old Auto 5 with a 30" barrel, or a Model 12 or 37 with with a 28"?

And of course, they were alone and unsupported too I suppose.
 
I think the "limited imagination" is that shotgun or handgun is an "either" choice.

The correct answer is pair them up.

Perhaps it is because the Navy familiarized me with it, but having dynamically boarded ships with a 12 ga. pump gun and a holstered 1911A1, I love the shotgun, and today they are more versatile than ever.

I think a rifle is better out in the open, but if you are on your own and not in a rifle bearing stack formation indoors, I believe you are better off with a combat shotgun with a proper tactical sling, backed by a sidearm.

No one ever messed with us staring into the .72 caliber maw of instant death. The only man portable weapon system to ever be formally complained about by the enemy during a war was the 12 ga pump gun, which Germany tried to get outlawed as a combat weapon after encounters with the Marines using them as trench clearing weapons during World War I. Facing off with the Maxim machine gun everyday for three years the humble combat shotgun is unfair? Yep. It's unfair. It's even more unfair today with slugs. I think I'd rather take my chances being hit by 55-77 gr. .223 than a 1 ounce slug up close. In a surprise hand to hand fight in a tight space, I'd rather be using a combat shotgun as a club than an AR.

For me anyways, a shotgun also swings better from target to target than the AR or AK does. One can also get easier practice on moving targets at a range using the shotgun than the rifle. I shoot static targets with an AR or AK just fine, but for some reason they refuse to let me bounce some clays along the ground and blast at them with any rifle.

Though I don't like converted Saiga-12s, they are at the forefront of addressing the slow reload criticism. However, even with a tube fed pump or semi, training to keep it topped off, either from a side saddle a speed feed stock, or from a pouch is not all that difficult to master. Overinserting an AR mag or failing a rock and lock on an AK is just as bad as fumbling tube feeding.

With peep sights set up like a rifle it is child's play to hit the 200m gong with regularity. I taught my nephew to do it in fifteen shots. So, #00, #1 or #4 buck for close quarters, and rifled slugs for reach and against vehicles. My slugs are mounted side saddle on my Mossbergs.

All that said, a sidearm is still essential for the "New York reload" for an empty or action jammed shotgun, just like it is for rifle toting SWAT teams.
 
certainly don't want to start the "aiming debate" but I have always kept
a mossberg cruiser 20 gauge pistol grip in an old duffle bag with some ammo.

If the need arose, our famililes would try to get to a farm that my brother
owns (about 70 acres). He is pretty stocked/protected and we have discussed a bleak long term scenario. His house is 4700 sq feet plus two
barns and two garages and only two people occupy the land. There is
game everywhere there (turkey / deer / etc.). There is also a great well
and two large fresh water springs.

I would take my handgun(s) to carry of course in the vehicle and also
the 20 gauge in the passenger floor board. A little easier to transport
and wield than a "long" gun but just as fierce.

We may all have our lists and thoughts but I haven't gotten far past having
cash / weapons / a steady head / and a bible ready to go.

Yes also first aid, water, etc. But I don't have 6 full BOBs and 30 days
or MREs in the Nissan nor do I plan to buy.
 
Being that most "situations" happen within 7 yds I feel the handgun is the better solution for HD
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As do I, I was just giving a possible answer to PBP's original question. I always have one of my 1911s handy, all other guns are locked in my safes. If you have some kind of warning that causes you to open your safe...things have passed the point of just needing a pistol. Like others have stated, there is no one size fits all firearm to cover all possible threats.
 
OR, people could stop playing video games and live in the real world.....JMO.
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No way! :D

No one ever messed with us staring into the .72 caliber maw of instant death.
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Those .50's and Miniguns on the boat behind you didnt have anything to do with it, did they? :)
 
Any sort of "things go bad..." scenario can encompass a wide range of potential encounters.

The bottom line is that if you are armed with something like an M-4 or a Ruger Mini-14, you are perfectly able to shoot someone with it at 5' or so. It works both close in as well as out to ranges significantly further than most people can accurately shoot a handgun.

The reverse does not hold true. With a handgun you're fine close in, but engagements at ranges much more than 60-100 yards are going to yield an advantage to the combatant armed with a long weapon.

So in a "things go bad" environment, and you're limited (for some reason) to only one firearm, you give yourself more options with something like an M-4.

Example: when house-clearing the zombies during the battle of Fallujah, the Marines could have pulled their pistols - many shots were fired inside living quarters or up stairwells. But most Marines used their M-4s, even indoors.

Just MHO...
 
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So what were they using, an old Auto 5 with a 30" barrel, or a Model 12 or 37 with with a 28"?

And of course, they were alone and unsupported too I suppose.
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Used the same Winchesters, Remingtons, and Ithaca pumps we hunted with here in the states. It kills just as well if you're alone as it does in a group... of course they were supported DUH...at home I doubt you will have 30 or more VC with AKs after your butt.:rolleyes:
 
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i think that if this thread were in the shotgun section rather than the handgun section there would vastly more preferences for the shotgun.
 
OP sounds like someone that never had to fight in a war/battle in his life.

Keep your handgun (and think it's enough), I'll keep my Mossberg 590! I have used 590s in the military clearing vessels that we boarded in the Persian Gulf and NEVER had any trouble "bringing it to bear" in the tight confines of ships/boats/tugs. ONLY ONCE did I ever draw my pistol and let the shotgun hang...it was when the shotgun ran out of ammo and I didn't have time to reload it, so the pistol came out and was used to get me to a better cover to where I could reload the shotgun!
 
Please, before this thread is locked, can someone tell me what tikiwiki means? I can't find it anywhere with google except for a few firearms forums.
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TIKIWIKI is a fairly common way of mocking reference to TEOTWAWKI(aiff).

Not intended as a slight to anyone in particular in this thread... just toward the zompacalypse genre in general.
 
yep ...both 45's a couple 357's a pair of 38's and an 8 shot 12 gauge...couple 1000's of rounds for it all ...SHTF means it all comes out...:cool:
 
When I saw the title with shotgun and sledge hammer I almost thought someone had come up with some new breaching gun made into a sledge hammer.:D
 
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