Shot Shell Length Question

"I give him an A for remembering something that happened in the 19th century so well."

Why shouldn't he?

He was in his early middle age back then. :D

Was this company any relation to Christopher Spencer and his rifles?
 
Spencer (rifles) was in Boston, Massachusetts

Spencer Arms Co. (shotguns) Windsor, Connecticut

The shotgun was designed by Christopher M.Spenser who also designed the Civli War era Spenser military carbines.

Info from 2007 Std Catalog of Firearms.
 
Jaguar,

I only posted what turned up on google. Not knowing whether it was correct, I quoted and posted the source. Your explanation seems correct, but have you addressed the OP's dilemma, which is whether or not it is safe to shoot his custom loads in his Spencer and it is unclear but probably that he has Damascus barreld?

I am pobably confused, but if he is shooting 1-1/8 ounce at 1200 FPS with 3 Drams of BP, that sounds like an smokeless powder equivalent Walmart target load and I wonder if shooting an eqivalent load is an old Spender is safe. Where am I wrong?
 
The original question was not on the loading of the shells, but rather the fired length of the shell. With the roll crimp the plastic/paper is rolled down on to the over shot wad/card, the amount of crimp is the ammount of shell casing rolled on to the wad.

Please note that the picture of the clear shell shows that the loader used a nitro card for the over shot and the thin over shot card as a over powder.

With a loading like that the pressures will be kept down as some of the powder gasses will blow by the card wad and the fiber filler wads.

The nitro card/over powder wad(.070) is used as a gas seal, then one or two fiber cushining wads, then the shot, topping it all off is a thin card to keep the shot in the case/shell.
 
I take the above to mean that there are considerations with this kind of loading that lower the barrel pressure. It is all good to know stuff that I didn't know, but regardless of the OP's original question, I just don't see where you address whether or not the OP is taking a risk shooting those shells in what seems to be a Damascus barrel. (From the scant info supplied by the op it isn't even clear to me that it is a Damasus or a Spencer of more recent origin.)
 
Hi,

WOW, I never though I'd get the responses I have received. When I purchased the Spencer Pump Shotgun I knew it had mechanical "innard" issues, so I sent it to a gunsmith, very familiar with the Spencer Shotgun, who test fired the gun after installing a new firing pin and spring. He also test fired my shotgun and had no issues with the barrel.

I'm very much aware of the problems associated with the Spencer Shotgun Damascus Barrel. My original question was about shell length. But, I appreciate everyone's concern for my safety. I have a "shooting vise" that I use to test fire my old firearms. This photo shows my original Spencer Carbine that I had repaired and test fired on my vise.

outsideviseandspencer.jpg


The Civil War Spencer Carbine and Spencer Pump Shotgun were invented by the same man, Christopher M. Spencer.

firinglinepost.jpg


Thanks again for your supportive posts.

Two Flints
 
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Damascus Twist steel barrels, I like the comments about hanging the guns on the wall!!!
Today over 111 years after 1900 there are damascus barrels still in use. Reproved by London proof house and used daily.

Many of the the guns are rifles used to take very large game that bites back(hard) if the second shot doesn't make the kill.

Many very fine shotguns are used with proper loadings in the game fields.
 
And, as many sources have indicated over the years, with a Damascus steel barrel there is simply no indication as to when the next shot is going to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

There are numerous verified instances of a high-quality damascus gun surviving the proof load with no apparent ills, only to open up on the next moderate pressure load. The barrel joins had just had enough.

There are also numerous cases of moderate quality damascus shotguns being used for years with loads stronger than were ever intended for it, and surviving just fine.

That's the problem with damascus guns. You just never know when the next shot is going to be THE shot. And, you never know exactly how the gun is going to fail.

It is going to fail near the muzzle with a seam opening up?

Or is it going to fail right over your support hand and send a ribbon of steel slicing through your palm?

What did Dirty Harry say? Feeling lucky, punk?

There are a lot of compelling reasons to leave a fine old damascus barreled shotgun hanging on the wall.

The number of reasons to shoot it? Not nearly as many, and not nearly so compelling.
 
Randy Wakeman was asked whether there were any known incidents of a damascus barrel failing and replied:

Yes, as a matter of fact it was a fairly recent lawsuit against an ammunition manufacturer. The customer was told that no, there was no guarantee that the ammunition was safe in his gun unless the individual went through appropriate and costly testing.

The owner decided to do his own "proof-testing," firing seven rounds with his gun in a fixture.

The eighth shot was from his shoulder. The gun failed, and the shooter lost his left arm in the incident. He sued. He lost his lawsuit.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com



Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=209636#ixzz1b3LYC9ym

This sounds like what the OP proposes and yet the shooter lost an arm.
 
You know, I have to respect two flints for keeping the old shotguns history alive, and I appreciate him doing that. But, I have more respect for all of these shotgun guys that have told two flints to be careful and why he should be careful. All these shotgun guys may not have only saved two flints life, fingers, hands, arms, eyes and possibly 3 certain body parts that would be just plum awful to go on living without but, they could have saved others that visit and read these forums and took the shotgun guys advice. So two flints, thank you for keeping old firearm history alive but please, for the sake of GOD, take their advice and hang that Spencer on the wall an use it as a conversation starter. Has anyone on these boards ever seen a Damascus barreled shotgun detonate? I mean explode into pieces? I have. I've been near hand grenades when they exploded and there's not a nickles worth of difference between a hand grenade and a 12 GA. SXS double barrel Damascus barreled shotgun detonating. At least with hand grenades you will hear an occasional "hit the deck!" or "get the hell down!". With a Damascus barreled shotgun you don't have any warning, of any kind, at any time. A man that had a Damascus barreled shotgun to explode on him had the shotgun checked by a knowledgeable, certified gunsmith. The gunsmith told the man the shotgun was in very good condition but he recommended that it not be shot and to put it on a wall to be looked at and talked about. The gunsmith even offered to disable the shotgun to where it would not fire for free but the owner wouldn't let him. The shotgun owner didn't follow that advice. He now has 3 less fingers, long scars up his left arm that looks like they belong on Buford Pusser and one eye that is a false eye and he can see about 12 or 15 feet in front of him out of his one "good" eye, if you could call it that, and 1 tooth left in his mouth. It's just not worth the risk...believe me. If you could see the shotgun owner that had his Damascus barreled shotgun blow up in his face, you would say it's not worth the risk either. Kudos to all you shotgun guys for trying to stop a dangerous situation before it became one. You can only tell a person, you can't make them do what you ask. Same as leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I wish you nothing but good luck two flints if you do shoot or continue to shoot a Damascus barreled shotgun (cause you're damn sure going to need it). It's not a question of "IF" it's going to fly apart, it's a question of "when" it's going to fly apart and how many people around you, besides you are going to get hurt or killed by flying shrapnel from that exploding hand grenade shotgun. I seen a man lose every penny to his name and his house because he decided to shoot a Saturday night special revolver that shaved lead every time it was fired. He was around a group of people bragging about how he had bought the P.O.S. revolver for nearly nothing and telling how he could hit dimes stood up with every shot. Well, he had to prove it to those people and sure enough the P.O.S. revolver shaved lead and put a man's eye out. A court battle followed and in the end, the man who lost his eye sight was the new owner of the man's house, bank account and his pretty red Chevy 4X4 truck that wasn't a year old at that time. All I can say is God Speed Two Flints. I hope they can find all your body parts for your funeral. You can't say you weren't told.
 
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