Short "shotgun" for bear . . . ?

[BourbonCowboy]

I own a Mossberg 590 Shockwave, and while it's obviously true that it isn't as easy to shoot accurately as a Shotgun with a conventional stock, it's a far cry from inaccurate or otherwise impossible to hit anything with.



The Shockwave's Raptor Grip is a completely different animal than your typical Vertical Pistol Grip, as it doesn't transfer the recoil straight back into the wrist, but rather off into space. Many folks (myself included) are shocked (pun not intended) to discover that the 590 Shockwave has very little felt recoil compared to other Shotguns, simply because it just isn't transferred into the shoulder or wrist, so all you feel is a little jolt when you pull the trigger.

Furthermore, because the recoil isn't that fierce, contrary to popular belief, you can hold it up, aim down the sights, and fire the gun without it whacking you in the face. By utilizing a simple push/pull method to brace the gun, it is possible to pull off fast, accurate, safe shots with the 590 Shockwave, which can be verified by watching any experienced shooter on YouTube firing one.
Heck, even if you're not confident/comfortable shooting the 590 Shockwave while holding it up to eye level, it can still be fired fast, accurate, and safely by simply tucking the end of the grip between your bicep and pectoral muscles.

So while many folks are bound to come in here ignorantly proclaiming how a gun they've never fired or otherwise put absolutely no thought/effort into firing is impossible to score accurate hits with, not to mention how Grizzly Bears absolutely cannot be dropped by anything short of a 20mm Vulcan, take it from someone who actually owns a Mossberg 590 Shockwave; you absolutely can shoot one fast, accurately, and safely.
What's more, I think that a 590 Shockwave loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs is just about the best weapon for Wilderness Defense that anyone could buy without spending a lot of money.

The Mossberg is small, lightweight, quick to deploy, and far easier to master than anyone would expect. Yes, it's larger than say a Smith & Wesson Model 500 Magnum Revolver, but it's also easier to control with two points of contact, more powerful with Brenneke Slugs, and only just a little bit heavier to boot. Plus, being a Pump Action Scsttergun, just about the only way that it can malfunction is if you shortstroke the slide, but seeing as you really only have time for one well aimmed shot at a charging bear, and you aren't realistically going to need a second shot with a 3" 12 Gauge Magnum Slug if you do your part, the only thing that you have to worry about is your own ability to take the shot.

So, I say; go long with the 590 Shockwave... *throws football* I do.

Well said. I haven't had mine that long, but I'm getting to be a decent shot with it, and I've never pulled the trigger on a firearm that's more fun to shoot.

A few weeks ago, I carried it when I went to visit my dad. As we sat around chatting that night, an opossum approached us. He told me that it was probably the one that was eating the food he left for his cats at night and asked me to shoot it. One shot from the hip at 20' - utilizing the Laser Saddle and TL-Racker (and my homemade #4 Buck minishells) rolled it up. Now he wants one as well.

 

[Forte S+W]

While I will freely admit to not having fired the Shockwave, I do have experience with a Mossberg 500 with a stock cut off to nearly the identical shape of the Shockwave, though the gun had a couple more inches of barrel.

2 3/4" shells, I found the recoil quite tolerable shooting birdshot but it became noticeably unpleasant moving up to #4 buck and heavier loads were quite painful.

Apparently our personal tolerances in this matter are quite different.

Recoil energy does not "go off into space". YOU may not notice it, but someone else very well might.

Is your Mossberg 500 fitted with a Raptor Grip like the Mossberg 590 Shockwave? Because that's the game-changer here that makes the recoil characteristics of the Shockwave unique from your typical shoulder stock or vertical pistol grip.

What I meant by saying that the recoil force "goes off into space" is that because the grip doesn't butt into your shoulder or palm like it would with a more traditional style of stock or grip, the felt recoil impulse is greatly mitigated. The recoil is most certainly there, as she still jolts backwards with authority just like any scattergun, but the Raptor Grip's design prevents said recoil force from being transferred directly into a limb.

 

[44 AMP]

Is your Mossberg 500 fitted with a Raptor Grip like the Mossberg 590 Shockwave?

No, it didn't have that exact grip. The gun I had (more than 30 years ago) predated the tactical "kits" and vertical pistol grips. It was a standard sporting shotgun that had been cut down to an 18" barrel (by someone skilled, as they shortened the vent rib and reattached the bead), and I think then later had the buttstock cut down, possibly by a different owner.

It had the standard sporting forend, without the little strappy thing the Shockwave has to keep your hand on the gun. The pistol grip was not a vertical one, it was the standard stock's grip with the rest of the stock removed. The upper curve followed the line of the pistol grip, all the way down to the end. VERY similar to what is on the Shockwave, minus the bulge at the bottom that the Shockwave has.

The sloping pistol grip does not slam into your hand the way a vertical pistol grip does, or a buttplate into your shoulder. But this does not mean the recoil isn't there, it just means you feel it differently. There is NO WAY a 5-6lb "short" shotgun has less recoil than a full sized heavier gun shooting the same ammo. NO WAY.

Feeling the recoil (and whether or not it hurts) is a more individual thing, and what bothers some folks doesn't bother others at all.

I didn't keep the gun long, it simply had no use for me, and had drawbacks that a riot size pump gun (with stock) didn't have.

The Shockwave and other guns in that general class might have an advantage against a human adversary, where the psychological effect of the gun MAY be a factor. But for defense against animal attacks, I don't think that holds true.

Bears (or mad dogs, or the uber rare big cat) are simply not impressed by how cool your gun looks or what it says on the barrel. The sound of the pump gun being racked is rarely a deterrent. And they usually don't get impressed by misses. Only hits matter, and only hits in the right places are effective stoppers. The stockless shotgun is simply more difficult to use accurately (not saying it can't be learned, but really, how many people will do that??), which, in my book goes a long way to negating the advantages of its compact size. But, that's just me.

 

[Forte S+W]

Darn, and here I was thinking that wild animals weren't sent running for the hills by the impressive sight of my Mossberg Shockwave, then the sound of me working the action most certainly would, and thus everything I was saying in favor of the Shockwave up until now is null and void.

Wait a minute, I don't remember saying anything like that at all, and upon reviewing my previous posts, I in fact did not, so yeah, I'm not entirely sure just who you were arguing with there, but you certainly showed them.

Anyway, as for everything else you said which was actually relevant to my post, dunno what to tell you... The felt recoil of the the Shockwave is nothing to me, just a jolt straight backwards which collides with nothing, thus resulting in no pain or discomfort, which is less than I can say for other shotguns. Maybe it's the push/pull method of my grip if it isn't the grip design itself, but it works for me regardless, and I am confident that I could defend myself from an attacking bear with it. What's more, I think that with proper practice, just about anyone who can handle a shotgun to begin with could learn to handle a Shockwave adequately as well, provided that their pride doesn't prevent them from sticking with it long enough because it quite as intuitive as shooting a conventional shotgun, that is.

 

[44 AMP]

First off, I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone, nor did I single out anything anyone said unless I put it in a "quote block", but if you want to consider everything you said earlier null and void, you certainly may do so.

Seriously though, you mention both of these things,

contrary to popular belief, you can hold it up, aim down the sights, and fire the gun without it whacking you in the face.

and

... a 3" 12 Gauge Magnum Slug ...

and you mention some guy on Utube shooting the gun and no getting whacked in the face, so, I'm curious, have you, personally, ever done it?? And, if so, did you do it with the 3" slugs you mention??

I ask this as a serious question, because I have personal experience that watching someone do something does not teach them everything they need to know, it only shows that it can be done, by someone who knows what they're doing.

Friend of mine wacked himself in the nose with the red dot sight on my .45-70 Contender. He had watched me shoot it several times, and a few times off hand, but while he did a fine job with his wrists when he tried it, he didn't do so well with his elbows and the gun came back and hit him in the nose. Bled a bit too! He DID hit the target (steel plate at about 40yds) and after we got the bleeding (and the laughing) stopped, his response was the admirable, "thank you sir! May I have another??"

His second shot also hit the target, and the gun did not hit him in the face. So it can be learned, but just watching someone else shoot doesn't necessarily teach everything you need to know.

 

[Forte S+W]

Okay, I'm not sure what those two comments have to do with your comments regarding bears not fearing the sight nor sound of a Shockwave, which was what I was referring to, but no matter...

No, I have not shot the Shockwave while holding it up at eye level while loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum 3" Shells. However, it can be done, and I do intend to do it myself. Although I cannot stress enough that if fired that way then one must employ a firm grip in which one pushes forward on the pump while pulling backward on the grip in order to brace it.
Also, Full Disclosure: I am an amateur bodybuilder with a daily workout routine, but if older gentlemen like Hickock45 who clearly aren't bodybuilders can do it, then I don't think that such is a requirement to shoot it that way.
Furthermore, I strongly recommend that anyone who hasn't shot the Mossberg 590 Shockwave or similar PGO Scattergun start off with ordinary 2.5" Shells and shoot it using the aforementioned method of tucking the end of the grip between their bicep and pectoral when firing it. Again, there is most certainly a learning curve when it comes to shooting such a firearm and attempting to sprint before you have learned to walk upright will most likely result in injury.

Last but not least, the Mossberg 590 Shockwave's receiver is drilled and tapped, so you can attach a picatinny rail as well as various sighting accessories to make it easier to aim accurately without needing to hold it up in front of your face, and if you intend to use it for Bear Defense, then I would recommend something like a Laser Sight in order to facilitate faster, more accurate shooting, without the need to hold it up and attempt to firmly grasp it while using the itty bitty brass bead sight at a charging bear.

I would like to think that these things are common sense, but on the off chance that they are not or otherwise someone decides to denigrate me because I didn't mention them in my already lengthy posts on the subject, here they are.

 

[BourbonCowboy]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to shoot 3" Magnum shells in a Shockwave. I tested some Aguila and Techrim slugs and they left a 1" deep hole in a large oak tree. While I hope I never have to defend myself against a bear, I think the Shockwave would definitely be a viable option.

 

[Forte S+W]

Because Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs have a roaring Grizzly printed right on the box, the 2.5" Black Magic Shells only have a Buck printed on the box!

But seriously, it's because most Slugs are designed with Deer in mind, whereas the 3" Brenneke Slugs actually were designed for Bear, so if you're going to carry a Shotgun into the woods, it makes sense to load it with ammo that was intended for Bear.

 

[Lima Oscar 7]

I live in a mountain. We have daily trash service due to Bears. My first impulse is to try to get out of their way and not seem like prey. 12 gauge, .45-70 or whatever, you better aim small and miss small. Bear spray is standard for all of us around here. It’s the price you may to live in an idiot-free environment.

 

[Dfariswheel]

This reminds me of a story written by one of the old time gun magazine writers about his time in the North woods logging industry.

He knew they had problems with bears and asked some of the old timer Scandinavian loggers what to do.
The told him to carry a shotgun loaded with bird shot........

"Ya, ven da bear starts to pester ya, yust shoot i'm in da face 'til he goes avay".