Short barreled hunting rifle build- opinions wanted

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steveNChunter

New member
I recently traded off my Remington 660 in 6mm rem. It was my lightweight, short hunting rifle for hunts when a lot of walking/thick cover is involved. I liked the rifle but I also like to tinker and customize and the aftermarket for a 660 is rather limited.

So to make a long story short, one of the items acquired in the trade was a model 700 BDL in .243 win. I would like to take this action and build a short barreled hunting rig out of it. I could just chop the barrel back but I want to go down to about a 16.5" barrel, and I don't think the .243 is the best cartridge to do that with. But maybe I'm crazy and that's exactly what I should do?

I'm considering .308, but I'd say the muzzle blast and noise from a barrel that short will be tremendous? Maybe not

I'd like to hear some suggestions for what chambering to go with on this build. It has to be a .473 bolt face, short action, and easy to find brass for. This rifle will be seeing whitetail and black bear hunting duty, so also take that into consideration.
 
For a few years I hunted with a Ruger Compact 77 with a 16.5 inch barrel. It was in 260 and I used IMR4064 for 100 grainers and Reloader17 for the 120 grainers. The muzzle blast wasn't so bad. I finally decided that 16.5 inches wasn't quite enough for me, so I had a new rifle built with a 20 inch barrel. It's just what I wanted. It's a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite with a #4 Brux barrel on it. Shoots like a dream. Short, easy to handle, and rather light.

And 260 works great on deer and will likely do fine on black bear.
 
.308 or 7mm08 would be my two choices.

I have a Ruger M77 Hawkeye compact in .308 win. It has a 16.5in barrel and while the muzzle blast is noticeable it isn't overpowering by any means. Also velocity in the short barreled .308 is still good, barely affected by the 16.5in barrel compared to my 22in barrel .308. It's about 100 fps loss.
 
I agree 7-08 or 308 for most practical setup. However if you feel like embracing a little madness you could chamber it in 6mm-284 winchester. The reasoning for this would be that if your bullet missed the intended target the muzzle flash would still set it on fire!:D
 
All short barreled centerfire rifles are louder than they would be with longer barrels. Even a 44 magnum with a 16 inch barrel is louder than one with a 20 inch barrel.
So I would not let that be a deciding factor.

I am building a Mauser with an 18 inch barrel in 8X57 for myself. I think a classic 1920 style stalking rifle is a wonderful tool for hunting in the mountains. I am making it with a full length "mannlicher stock". I intend to put a German 3 blade rear sight on it with a banded front sight. Top it all off with a low power scope on a quick detach mount and I think I will have a wonderful rifle for all game up to elk, for every distance out to about 400 yards.
My point is simple. Just get a rifle in the style you like and you will be happy. Larger bores burn powder better in short barrels than smaller bores, but larger bores usually kick harder too. So make a decision based on what YOU want, and don’t worry about what I want (or anyone else)
Get a rifle that will do the tasks you need it to do. Not all men have the same kind of game to hunt, or in the same place.
It's true "A wise man seeks many counsels", but when it’s over and done the rifle only has to please one man.
You!
 
I use my Sako Forester 19" carbine for both deer and varmints. It's pretty loud, for sure. And at night on a coyote, the muzzle flash is impressive. :)

As far as weight and length, it's a Scout rifle at about a meter in length and seven pounds, fully dressed. That's a plus when walking-hunting, working out of a truck cab or in brushy country.
 
Alright, I'm starting to lean more and more in the direction of .308. If I go with .308 I will more than likely never have the desire to load a bullet heavier than 150 grains. I know most factory .308 barrels are 1:10, but that seems too fast IMO for the lighter bullets. What would be the optimum twist rate for a 16.5" barreled .308 shooting 125-150 gr bullets? I'm thinking 1:12" or 1:13"?
 
The faster twist of a 1/10 compared to something like a 1/12 shouldn't really matter that much. Usually you can step down in bullet weight with no problem with a faster twist, with fragile varmint bullets being the exception. They have the possibility to explode in mid flight. I however wouldn't worry about generating that much overspin in a short barrel .308... 300 win mag maybe, but not .308.

But with a 1/12 or 1/13 twist you may not be able to get enough rotation for the heavier projectiles if you ever decide to use them. You just might be limiting yourself, in my opinion a 1/10 will do you just fine for general use.

I would like to point out as well that my Remington 700 SPS Varmint has a 1/12 twist and I mainly shoot 175gr SMK out of it with exceptional accuracy. So I think you would be fine up to the 180 grain range even with a short barrel 1/12. But why limit yourself if you don't need too?


ETA: My ruger M77 compact has a 1/10 twist and I mainly shoot 150gr ammo through it and it performs great. Although I am working on a load for it with the 165gr Nosler ballistic tip that might very well be my new standard load for it.
 
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steveNChunter,

Sell that rifle and look at better designs with CRF and three position safeties that control the firing pin.

You may find like I have that a lightweight rifle does not need a very short barrel to be handy.

Get your hands on a Kimber Montana 84M. That short action rifle comes in 308, 243 etc. Outstanding rifles.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84m/montana
 
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short

When I wasn't carrying my bow this year, I carried some type of carbine/short 20" rifle. None of my 22" or longer barreled rigs came out of the safe. It was apparent rather quickly how convenient and how much easier to handle a short tubed rifle was on all points.

Lighter, easier in and out of the vehicle, shooting house, shoot house windows, off of ATV. Less unwieldy in a tree stand, and of course, through the woods. When it came time to finally shoot, my only deer this year didn't realize the difference between a .30/180 (.308) launched at a slightly slower velocity than one from a longer tube. Bamaboys dandy buck didn't notice either. (Kid took a shine to the Hog Rifle right away). At the distance we're killing whitetails, the slightly slower slugs and the modest change in trajectory don't matter a bit.

Can't say what a 16.5" tubed .308 would be on blast, ...I don't really notice much difference with my 20" rifles afield, and always double up with hearing protection otherwise. Re the .243. One of said rigs is a 20" .243. I've not shot it over a chrono, but have had no trouble killing deer with the little gem and 100 gr Partitions. That said, the .308 is more versatile, offering heavier slugs of course.
 
Personally 18-20" is as short as I like and 20"-22" is just fine with me. You can throw a lot of money at the gun you have and end up spending more and getting less gun than you'd have by just buying what you want after selling or trading.

Your 660 was a short rifle, but compared to modern rifles was heavy. The real weight loss is not from shortening barrels, but in the action and stock. My 22" barreled Kimber is under 6 lbs scoped. The barrel could be cut back but I've never felt handicapped at that length.

I'd be looking at Kimber for the lightest possible gun. A Tikka would be less than a pound heavier for about 1/2 the money and another option.

A 308 from a 16-20" barrel won't be any worse than a 243 from the same barrel length. Probably not as bad and it will lose less speed from a shorter barrel than a 243.
 
I bought a Ruger Scout last year and did some research on how much performance was lost using the 16.5"bbl. There is plenty of information out there on how a 308 performs out of a short barrel. I think the rough consensus is it loses right around 200fps dropping down from a 20-22" bbl.
 
I developed a taste for carbine length rifles years ago and the longest barrel I currently have on anything is 18.5". .243 vs. 7mm-08 vs. .308 in shorter barrel gun? The effects of reducing barrel length isn't worse with the .243 than the other 2 and a good amount of the effects can be controlled via reloading. You want a .243, get one. It's the perfect deer/yote/varmint combo even in short barrels.
 
If you are a handloader, you can control some of the excessive blast from a short barrel by using faster burning powder. Get your .243 cut back to 16.5" & give it a try. What do you have to lose?

My favorite short/handy deer rifles are single shots with 22" barrels. You can have your cake & eat it too! LOL

...bug
 
I do handload and I'm still considering cutting back the existing barrel, I'm also considering the idea of having it 6mm AI reamed and using the 6mm rem brass I have. If I were to do that though I'd leave the length alone. I still have alot of ideas floating around in my head.
 
.

I have two short-barreled hunting rifles, that are head/shoulders better than any other guns I've owned in the past 50-odd years - both handle like a handgun, but neither are boltguns. :D

The two are:

A Marlin 1894P, 16.25" bbl'd .44 Mag, with ported bbl.

A Winchester M94 Trapper, 16" bbl's .30-30.

The two rifles fill similar roles, but I happen to like both for the short-range hunting areas I usually frequent, Sooooo................. :)

( the Marlin is Scout-scoped; the Trapper, a receiver peep sight - the upper two rifles, below)

DSCN0311.jpg



.
 
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7mm-08 is a great choice for what you describe. Sako is a good starting point.

Or yeah, .30-30, .35 Rem, .308, .338 federal.

Just remember, that due to expansion ratios, larger-bore (larger-caliber) chamberings suffer less from a shortened bbl in terms of vel. loss than smaller calibers; thus I wouldn't go smaller bore than 7mm (7mm-08, 7mm Waters) on a 16" to 18" bbl, and wouldn't go smaller bore than .260 rem on a 19" to 20" bbl, personally. But .30 cals and up shine in this role. Hence the popularity of the .30-30 and .35 Rem leverguns.
 
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here they come... those lever guns ( my thoughts for a short barreled hunting rig ;) )

but you could also look at cartridges popular in those guns... 30-30, 35 Remington, 44 Magnum 45 Colt ( or 444 Marlin, & 45-70 ) are all thought of a "brush busting" cartridges... while the .308 definitely has more punch than a 30-30, at a cost of much more noise... the 30-30, & 35 Remington were designed to shoot through shorter barrels... & while the 44 Magnum is a handgun round by nature, it makes a great woods hunting rifle...

now getting the rimmed cartridges to feed through your .243 action may be challenging, but the 35 Remington shouldn't be all that tough
 
Rem Mdl 7 in 7-08. I love mine, top it with a good quality scope, mine wears a 3-9 Leupold VXIII, never regretted any of that set up. Light, fast to the shoulder, plenty of range and power. Although I wouldn't turn my nose up at a .243 either, my wife carries her little Ruger compact, about the same size as my Rem, I just happen to like the Rem better.
 
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