Short-Barreled 6mm Dilemma?

My personal opinion: I would NEVER mess with "Dad's rifle". Regardless of what YOU want or expect, the sentimental value is lost as soon as you start messing with the original. I have Dad's chainsaw, High Standard 22 pistol, tractor, and 03A3 Springfield rifle. Many years ago, I swapped the stock and added a scope. Now, I dearly wish I hadn't but, at the time, I didn't have the funds for a different rifle.
From a reloader's standpoint, you're not likely to get 3000-3100 with 100 grainers from an 18.5" barrel. Realistically, you can go to a lighter bullet and come close to that goal and probably never notice the difference in "on game" performance.
 
Sound like the .280 is out stepped by the 7 mag. Gets into a whole belted vs unbelted debate. No room in between for the two or are u just better going to 7 mag?
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I mentioned the 7 mag because you can get long, heavy barreled Remingtons in that chambering, and you said you wanted a "long range" gun

If you just want a larger cartridge for "normal" hunting, a 7mm/08 or a .280 will do the job
 
LipscitzWrath, game animals are downed with bullets, not cartridges. Any cartridge and barrel length that shoots a given bullet at the same velocity will have equal results down range. Cartridges that shoot a given bullet out faster have more recoil, but if shot equally accurate, increases the range one can use them at.
 
Leave the rifle as is. It will do the job it is designed to do just fine. Replacing the barrel with a longer 24-26" barrel will mean 150-175 fps more speed at the muzzle. That translates into around 3" less drop at 400 yards and 50-75 ft lbs more energy at that range. REALLY, do you think any game animal will ever notice the difference. If you can compensate for 24" of bullet drop at that range 27" is nothing.

You don't lose anywhere near 100 fps/inch with shorter barrels. Depending on the cartridge and the barrels somewhere between 10fps/inch up to around 30 fps/inch at the max. A 6mm is one of those that does benefit from longer barrels, but you shouldn't see more than 25 fps difference per inch of barrel change even with this round.

You are already considering adding other rounds to your collection that will work better at longer ranges, and on game larger than deer anyway. Keep it as is and use it the way it was designed. As a handy short barreled gun for woods hunting that could work at longer ranges if the need arises.

If you like oddball cartridges that just get the job done the 280 is a good choice. Truth is a 270 or 30-06 does everything just as well, but the 280 is not something you see everywhere, but is more than adequate for everything in NA. Even the big bears. It is not a stopping rifle, but with good 175 gr bullets is more than adequate. It'll do well enough for long range elk to make a magnum unnecessary.
 
My Long Range M700 .260 wears a 21" tube and my .260 M7 has a 20" tube. Never had a problem hitting what I wanted to with either. The longer the barrel, the thicker the profile has to be to maintain the same accuracy, so I have drifted towards shorter barrels over the years.

I too would leave the 6mm as it is.

You got a .17 and now looking for a bigger caliber?

IMHO, Americans tend to have magnumitis. Had a guy bring a .30-378 on an elk hunt...would not shoot anything past 200 yards...flat out crazy.

I have also tended to base caliber decisions on the .308 case or the .30-06 case in the last 15 years or so. The .308 case can get you into a larger caliber than your 6mm with a .260 Rem, 7mm-08, a .308 Winchester or a .338 Federal. If you are Eastern and looking at mostly deer, one of those should work fine. The .30-06 offers the .270 Win, .30-06, .338-06 and .35 Whelen. Sure there are others, but those are the most mainstream. I am a huge fan of the .260 and .338-06 and those have been my primary hunting guns for at least the last decade.

I have a .243 my dad bought me at my first rifle when I was 13...this year my 13 year old shot his first Pronghorn with it just like I did mine. It was very cool for my Dad, myself and my son. When I inherit my fathers first rifle, a 7mm Mag, I will keep it and cherish it, but i doubt I hunt with it. The second rifle I ever owned, a .30-06 M700 has sat in the safe for the last 12 years awaiting my sons use of it. The traditions of handing down firearms is special to me and I think to most hunters.

We have lots of factory ammo choices and since you reload, a lot more. Enjoy the journey and don't fret over it too much. :D
 
Hi, LW,

You say the gun has done well at 100-350 yards; adding a few inches to the barrel won't stretch that range very much and will make the gun a bit less handy. I would do nothing to change it. If you want a rifle for longer ranges or bigger game, buy one in another caliber (and .243 won't be any better in any respect!).

Jim
 
Another vote for leave the Model 7 alone.

I guess the way I looked at it was if I had a longer tube gun, I could relegate the 7 to varmint hunting with lighter bullets and leave the big game duties to the 700.
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A lot of us would look at it just the opposite way. For big game hunting, the shorter, handier rifle is preferred, and we live the small loss of velocity over the longer barrel in order to get a better handling combination.

An engineering degree ought to have taught you that the old saying "there is no free lunch" applies to a LOT of things in the real world.

My first deer rifle was given to me by my father, and I still have it. A Remington model 600 in .308 Win. The 600 is the spiritual ancestor of the model 7, and no, the short barrels don't deliver top end velocity, BUT it doesn't matter much for any practical use.

The carbines are excellent rifles for what they are intended to be, short, handy, relatively light hunting rifles that deliver enough power and accuracy for the intended game at common hunting ranges.

Not ultra long range precision guns, not benchrest guns, and not dedicated varmint rifles, or any other different specialization.

I have Rem 600 series rifles in .222Rem, .243Win, 6mm Rem, .308 Win, and .350 Rem Mag. They do very well in their intended roles. Nearly perfect for situations where you do more hunting than shooting.

I've got a Win Model 70 Varmint .22-250. Puts my Rem 600 .222 in the deep shade for accuracy, velocity, flat shooting, etc. But it weighs north of 12 pounds with the optics. My .222 carbine is just shy of 7lbs, with a 3-9x scope.

Any bets on which one gets carried more?
;)
 
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I guess the way I looked at it was if I had a longer tube gun, I could relegate the 7 to varmint hunting with lighter bullets and leave the big game duties to the 700.
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When about 90% of big game is shot at less than 200 yds, a "long range" rifle is not something anyone really "needs" so much as "wants"

I got the hots for one, so I rigged up a Sendero 7 mag with a Leu 6.5 X 20 AO, and worked up a load that would do .5" @ 100 yds.

The first time I took it out, I sat in a stand where I could see about 1200 yds.

I had a solid rest and a laser range finder.

The only deer I saw ( and finally shot) was 13 yds from the stand.
 
This whole thread brings to mind Murphy's Second Law.

"IF IT AINT' BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!"

The rifle ain't broke, just seeming a bit inadequate because of some "lost" velocity due to the short barrel. Let me address this with a short story. When they first came out, I fell in serious lust for a Ruger M77 RSI in .308. I do like that cartridge. Big problem was it seems every time I saw one at an LGS, the dealer place a premium price on the rifle. A few years went by and I finally saw one for sale in my local paper and it was almost mint with only a couple of small dings in the stock. I talked to the guy for a while and learned that a bunch of factory ammo, once fired brass and some multiple fired brass and the dies went with the gun. I apologized to the gentleman as my next question might be embarrassing but I had to ask. "Why are you selling this so cheap?" His answer, "It's way too inaccurate." He did go into detail. I told him I'd take it anyway. It took me two full years of messing with loads to get a load that would at least hold 1.50" at 100 yards. A 165 gr. Speer Hot Core, Remington brass and Winchester standard primer. Powder was W760. Truly a one trick pony that did at best 2550 FPS. First time out with it on a hunt, the shot was at 250 yards. One very dead deer. I've taken a few more but at ranges from 35 feet to about 150 yards. I've never worried about the lack of velocity with that rifle ever since. FWIW, that same load doe a whole 2610 FPS from a 22" M70.
As far as a longer range rifle, I'd look at a .270, .280 Rem. or even the mundane 30-06. :eek: I'm currently playing with a custom .280 Rem. that I may take elk hunting later this month. Just have to find "The Load". I already have one ready to in a .270 and .35 Whelen.
Regardless, don't mess with that 6MM. You'll kick yourself later on if you do.
Paul B.
 
Guys, I want to thank each and every single one of you. You have redirected my focus. I plan to leave the little gun unmolested. I may shoot it at the occasional coyote or deer, but I am going to try and preserve it so that my future son can harvest his first animal with one.

Paul, funny you mention that. Earlier today I saw my dealer and had him order me a brand new Remington 700 Mountain with the Bell & Carlson stock, chambered in .280 Rem. When I was researching my next cartridge, this one kept tugging at me, probably for the same reason I am fond of the 6mm. It lost an advertising battle, despite holding advantages in nearly all respects. Plus I relish the thought of finding the true "maximum potential" of the cartridge since it was neutered to work reliably in autoloaders and all the load data supports that.

And before anyone else points it out, you know what the most ironic bit of that is? The 700 mountain comes with a light contour 22" barrel!

The Model 7 will always hold a special place in my heart, and I just hope I don't shoot the barrel out of it before I give it to my son.
 
I had a 280 mountain rifle, and it was a fine hunting machine. Be advised, however, that wippy 22" barrel moves around; zero your loads slowly. Fire each shot from a cold barrel.

Btw, lots of 6mm s were produced by Rem when they made the 600s and 660s. They all were short carbines and very popular. A bit of ballistic performance may be lost but would be also if it were a 243.
 
I had a 280 mountain rifle, and it was a fine hunting machine. Be advised, however, that wippy 22" barrel moves around; zero your loads slowly. Fire each shot from a cold barrel.
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I had one too, and it was never as accurate as my Model 7 although it was not as bad to carry around as the Senderos
 
Oh boy, don't scare me like that...

So there was a hiccup with the order with my dealer, so it seems I have some time to consider this decision further. And I am kinda hijacking my own thread so maybe I should just start a new thread. If you guys think I should, let me know and I will.

First off, for housekeeping's sake, the Model 7 will stay just as dad gave it to me. Upon load research, it seems tons of people use the same load for deer as they do for coyotes so that makes it an even better dual-purpose gun, which I think was Remington's intentions.

Now I threw out that I am trying to order a .280 Remington 700 Mountain Rifle SS with the Bell & Carlson stock. Why that particular model? Simple, it's the only one Remington (or any other mfr it seems) chambers in .280 Rem.

However, after comments here and elsewhere on the internet, I am concerned about the light contour barrel. Conflicting reports are everywhere. Some say they shoot fine and the LW barrel is a god send when you're carrying it, others say it's a one-shot wonder that heats up so fast your second shot is compromised and your third shot is pure luck.

Looking for opinions here.

In my mind, there are three options:

1.) Go forward with the .280 Mountain Rifle. Proponents of this option might say that the accuracy is fine with one or two shots, and that's all a true hunter needs. I have read others that say accuracy is par with any other 700. Price is $846 for the rifle, plus optics and any other goodies. My concerns with this option are accuracy and recoil. Accuracy for reasons already mentioned. I've never shot a bolt-action with .270/.280/.30-06 class of recoil. Closest thing is .308 in an autoloader. I am concerned the LW of the gun coupled with power will be a concern.

2.) Buy a cheap 700 in LA, scavenge the action, put a more standard contour barrel in .280 on it, and (possibly) replace the stock. Cheapest guns so far seem to be SPS models and, quite frankly, I am not a fan of the stock. Pros include getting the caliber I want with a heavier barrel that MIGHT be more accurate. Cons - COST! By the time I buy a gun for the action and have it rebarreled, I am likely up over a grand pretty easily. Stainless finish (which I'd like) probably a couple hundred more. If I want to replace the stock with a B&C, H-S, or Mcmillan, add another $3-400.

3.) Abandon the .280 altogether and find a 700 with a bit heavier barrel in another similar-performance caliber. The two front runners that come to mind are the .270 and the .30-06. Pros: better gun availability and cost is probably less. Case in point, I found a .30-06 stainless synthetic .30-06 with 22" barrel and Bushnell scope for $550 + shipping. Syn stock looks to be of questionable quality. Even if I replaced the stock, that puts me back in the ballpark of the .280 Mountain Rifle with a heavier barrel, and even comes with a scope (although a Bushnell 3x9 was not what I was going to put on it). Cons: Not a .280 (which in and of itself may not be a con).

So what do you guys think?

My plan is to have it be my all-around big game gun that I can use for antelope all the way up to elk, and maybe even a moose. There are probably some of you wondering why my fascination with the .280 rem. TBH, I hadn't even heard of it until after my father died wherein I inherited 3 boxes of .280 remington shells from my father. No rifle, and I don't recall him ever having one but I started researching the caliber and the more I read about the .280, the more I like it. Seems it was another underappreciated cartridge (like the 6mm) that can provide wonderful performance if you handload. And being a 7mm doesn't hurt either.

What would you do? I should probably start another thread and maybe I will.
 
Option 1. How many shots are you going to need to bring down that elk? I shoot, among others, a 700 in 7 mag. It holds for a 5-shot 1" group, and that barrel certainly heats up. You might get 2 or 3 shots up close, when MOA accuracy doesn't matter, but if you're shooting cross canyon, any followup will be a poor odds try at a moving critter.
 
My opinion would be to sell the ammo. If it's that rare someone will want it or the brass.

Then buy the .270 or 30-06 of your choice. Does it really have to be new. I've seen a lot of rifles get shot maybe a handful of times and end up buried in a closet forever, offered up online for a great price or traded somewhere as a used gun.

Rare ammo and reloading turns into a pain after a while. This is coming from a guy who has a 30-40 Krag that shoots great but both Winchester and Remington make very limited runs of brass or ammo for it. $40+ a box for what could be summed up as a beefed up 30-30 or light loaded 30-06 is a headache compared to paying $19.99 for 30-06.
 
For big game hunting, the 700 Mountain Rifle in 280 will be great. Most people don't get so many shots at a deer or elk that the light barrel contour heating up will affect putting one down. Most hunters miss for reasons other than the groups opening up to 2" as the barrel gets warm. Hunting accuracy and target accuracy are wildly different.
 
Scorch. U have commented a number of times and seem to be level headed. Not that anyone else here isn't. In fact, I have found this forum to be more helpful than any other I have joined.

So what I am hearing is another caliber is in my future. I guess the next logical question to ask is stick with the .280 or go for something else. Thus far I have one person saying step up to .30 and another person saying the .280 will be fine. Input is appreciated.
 
The .280 will do anything the 30-06 (or 270, or 7mm Rem Mag, etc) can with the same effectiveness. At 500 yds, its trajectory is flatter than the 30-06, and virtually identical to 270 or 7mm Rem Mag. Any one of them has multiples of the energy needed to ensure clean kills on deer, elk, or moose. The 280 is not magical, just different.

Back when I was a mere lad, there were two well-known gun writers who had a long-running war of words over the 270 Win and the 280 Rem. Over the years, I figured out who was right. Nothing against 270, or any other cartridge, I just chose 7mms. I build rifles for a living, so I get to shoot a lot of rifles and do load workup on them. The differences between many cartridges are dimensional only, although people get pretty worked up over their favorite.

I am partial to 7mm cartridges, I prefer them to 30 cal, 6.5mm, 25 cal, etc. I have hunted the West for the past 40-ish years with a variety of rifles, and keep coming back to 7mms. You can choose anything from 243 to 338 Win Mag, and be happy with it for the rest of your life. I chose 7mms, so that's what I shoot.
 
It is possible to get a lemon of a barrel.Not stress relieved,sometimes turning one down,or not a straight hole.
I have a take-off .308 bbl from a major manufacturer that is straight on the outside.Look through it...ha ha,it will shoot around corners!!Its obvious.Its not a straight hole.

I make no claim a Remington production barrel is necessarily a "quality" barrel.

But I have a lot of years with a Douglas featherweight contour that dependably keeps the 3 shot sight in groups that I shoot inside the orange diamond on a sight in target at 300 yds.Easily well inside 300 yd minute of grapefruit.It is free floated.No walking,etc.

I do not know that a production grade #3 contour 30-06 bbl or a # 4 contour 7 mmMag bbl would do better.
One of the more accurate shooting irons I ever worked on was a Rem XP-100 with the skinniest barrel ever.With a 4x scope and my poor shooting,I fired a 10 shot string to decide if it was good enough.It cut a skinny "Y" shaped group at 200 yds,about 5/8 wide and 1 1/4 tall.And it had a bunch of holes drilled in the bbl to attach a silly plastic vent rib.

Consider all the advice you get to be a shovel full of mud.A large percentage of what you are told is 4 th hand hogwash about a brother in laws friends uncle who was a moron anyway.

You have to sit down at the river with your own Goldpan,and take that shovel full of mud and swirl it around.Rinse off the muck,and the fools gold,and see what nuggets shine FOR YOU.Then take a risk,spend your money,and if the rifle does the job,enjoy it.If it doesn't,sell it or chop it or rebarrel it ...correct it.
I'll be sruck down for blasphemy,but its just a piece of pipe and a fencepost!!Its not alive,and its not magic.Be the Master!!
Caliber/cartridge?Within a range of reasonably appropriate cartridges for the task,IT JUST DOES NOT MATTER!!!.6.5 x 55?Great!!Any full size battle rifle cartridge that went to war in a bolt gun..FINE!!Necked up or down?FINE!!
Very light cartridges demand more of the hunter,and good sense must be used,but some folks successfully elk hunt with a 243.It seems like you are not inclined to select more magnum than you can squint and jerk the trigger for,so that part is covered.

Past that,its about preferences.Which is better,scrambled or over easy?Rare or medium? Guinness or IPA?No one can tell you!! Know yourself,and honor what YOU like.
I guarantee,while there are a lot of great folks on firearms pages,no matter what you choose/select,etc,they will tell you"Oh,no you shoulda...."Well,to heck with them.
If I decide my .257AI or 30-338 or .375 or 30-06 is THE rifle for me,and you show up with a .280,270.260.8x57,.338-06,NO PROBLEM!!! I can/will HONESTLY say "That is one fine cartridge! Excellent choice!!"
And its true,and it costs me nothing to say it


IMO,a light "mountain rifle"(light within reason) can easily deliver all the accuracy required for big game hunting,with no shortcomings.

If you want a crow,prairie dog,benchrest,or ego/bragging range toy,sure,go with the heavier barrel.

If you are going up and down mountains at 8000 ft a few miles a day elk hunting ,IMO,a rifle/scope together that weigh 8 lbs or a little less will make your day easier.And it will shoot just fine.
 
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LW,

I was in a similar position as you many years ago. I bought a .270 Savage 110 as my first hunting rifle and hunted and killed deer, fox, coyote, crow, but no elk(not around my woods :( ) Then I got the itch for a 26" heavy barrel gun to start long range shooting and hunting with a heavier gun. I bought a .308 and a .22-250 both 26" heavy barrels. Then I figured out how heavy and cumbersome they actually were. In my area a 200yd shot is long. 30-75 yds is normally the range of my shots when hunting.

As far as stepping up in caliber choice. I don't like a lot of recoil so I've never went above a .30-06 when hunting. As everyone has stated, shot placement is key with any caliber you choice, I have always felt the recoil effects MY shot placement. Everyone has their own opinion on it and ultimately you need to be the one happy with the gun you choose, not us.

The 6.5 cartridges are very good, so are the .270, .280, 7-08, .308, .30-06. I think either one of these would fulfill your needs adequately.
 
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