Shooting rest to show how bad a shot I am and how bad my rifle is not

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mwsenoj

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Kind of a mouth full, but before I get to the issue I have to lay the backstory so I answer any questions before they are asked. I have been shooting centerfire rifle with serious intent of accuracy since Jul '11 and have read, practiced, thought about and talked about shooting accurately. I have a Rem 700 chambered in 223 and have a nice B&C alum bedded stock that is properly installed and torqued. I have carefully fired closed to 1k rounds and still find myself worse than a 1 MOA shooter from an Atlas bipod and a rear bag. I haven't really had a chance to let another experienced shooter try out my rifle since the local club has its shoots on Sunday mornings when I am in church, so I was thinking about grabbing a Caldwell Lead Sled an seeing how my gun really shoots. I have also dedicated a good deal of time and care into properly handloading for accuracy and have even done a 400 yd ladder test to find the optimum powder load for my combo. Anyone out there doing this to see what their gun is capable of despite operator error?
 
I had the same problem with my AR, prone position with bipod. I finally started shouldering the gun slightly tighter and used my non trigger hand to not only pull back a bit tighter but downwards also. With this small adjustment my accuracy improved markedly. The name of the game for me was to find the crosshairs on the target AFTER I pulled the trigger. I also had to play around with the adjustable stock and find the right place for my arm lenght.
 
I can't comment on the sled, but I think its a good idea to either get a sled or someone else to shoot it. 1 MOA should be relatively easy to hold at 100 yards, with any decent newer product rifle and good ammo.

Have you ever tried using high quality factory ammo? Look up what the top 2 or 3 brands are for 223 and buy a box of those. Put a couple through. If that doesn't fix the problem, then I would try a sled or different shooter with the factory ammo. Reloading just puts an extra variable in so I wouldn't recommend using your reloads to diagnose this, any quality factory round should hold under 1moa. Ammo makes a HUGE difference.

Another thing you might try is getting into the prone from the opposite side. So pulling the trigger with your left hand instead of right. It will feel SUPER awkward, BUT you have not developed any bad habits yet from that side. Try to get behind the rifle properly, focus on squeezing the trigger correctly and give it a go.

Outside of the regular checks( like tight screws and etc..) If after all this its not shooting 1 moa, then you got a dud. Either get a new rifle or change the barrel.
 
Sounds like a nice gun. You answered several of my questions already:D. Here are a few more:). Have you tried different bullets? Powder? Checked the scope for tight screws, bad reticle? Do you have parallax adjustment? What distance do you usually shoot at? Do you adjust the sandbag to hold the stock securely? I have more questions but we can start with these.
 
What ammo are you using? Have you tried various brands? Tried reloading to match a load to the rifle?

I have a .223 single shot that will print 0.62 inch 100 yard groups all day long with my reloads. Some factory ammo types out of the same rifle print 3+ inch groups.
 
I've never used a bipod; only sandbags.

Lots of little things in getting tight groups. As to the shooter, practice at holding the rifle in the same way for each shot. Ensuring that there is no "itty-bitty" amount of canting. No parallax in the scope for the target's distance.

Then you get into the issue of "best load". That has to do with how the barrel's harmonics work with the differing vibrations created by different loads.

Some rifles have everything righteous from the git-go. Others, you gotta tweak around with to find the best combination.

Dry-firing at the bench doesn't hurt, either.
 
I use the "led sled" to shoot for data... It helps me be positive that the loads are what they are and not me "goofing it up", so I'd say maybe that and try some different loads( factory stuff).
 
Try someone elses rifle... that way you can confirm (or not) that it's your technique before spending too much time on your rifle/scope/loads/ projectile.... Then if you do shoot a decent group, well the fun begins... lots of variables if it is the rifle/scope/ammo combo. good luck.
 
get a quality front adjustable sand bag rest and a rear bunny ears bag. Make sure that the rifle is sitting on the rest the same way every time: on the forearm and not the barrel. Then just bring the rifle to your shoulder and head in a comfortable manner. Just try to shoot the same with every shot. That's about as good as you can do. Lead sled is designed to remove a bunch of recoil but not designed necessarily to shrink groups. I read a book about a famous marksman who said that he knew he had a good shot lined up when he could bring his head slowly up off the stock and slowly back down, and the crosshairs were still on the target
 
Another possibility...you have 1000 rds through.

Copper fouling can sure mess with your accuracy.Try Bore-Tech Eliminator and a nylon brush.
 
The "led sled will easily shrink groups, and as a byproduct it shrinks recoil also, any caliber is easy to shoot off the Led Sled,, try it, yes it's a little more money but you can catch it on sale... Its a better product than most of the others.

As far as shrinking groups there are alot more factors that come to play here, one responder replied about bore fouling,, man I've had my battles with that crap, and yes Bore Tech Eliminator does make it easier. It also comes down to form,,, If you don't "RELIGOUSLY" practice them then you'll never achieve the level of marksmanship you desire.... period...;)

1. Steady position.
2. Correct sight alignment.
3. Breath control.
4. Trigger squeeze.

I have witnessed these 4 steps used in turning young men, (that never touched a rifle) into Expert marksmen..:)

this group fired off the "sled";
 

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What kinda scope you running on that thing? Loose scope mounts, crappy scope, and improper eye relief can all cause your groups to spread. Whats your COAL vs your throat depth? Do you have a chrono? Do your groups have a specific vertical, horizontal, or shotgun spread?

Bipods aren't the greatest for groups. They rock and wiggle and generally have more movement in them than you need. I always use sandbags or my dad's lead sled when I'm testing new loads. It does help a bunch to take you out of the picture, and see if its the rifle.

With your handloads, have you tried different primers, powders, and bullet weights? Have you tried store bought ammo as a base? When I get a new gun I usually buy a couple boxes of different weight bullets and try those first, to give me an idea of where I need to start. Hornady put the powder type and weight on their boxes of ammo for the 6.5 CM I have, and that made it easier to find a start point for me.

Whats your experience with shooting/firearms? Have you taken any classes? Ever have someone stand over you and watch you shoot to make sure you're not making mistakes?
 
The lead sled is a great tool for developing ammo to a rifle or to determine the most accurate factory ammo for that particular one. Once that has been determined, how it shoots off hand and bench will tell you how well YOU shoot. It has been my experience that the greatest majority of rifles are more accurate than the shooter. ;)
 
The lead sled is great for removing the shooter from the equation. If you know the rifle can shoot .xx moa on a sled then you can see just how much work needs to be done to the shooter.
 
mwsenoj said:
Anyone out there doing this to see what their gun is capable of despite operator error?
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We all like to benchrest our rifles to get an idea of what the equipment can do. The Lead Sled is a great tool for that and I recommend the use of some type of good rest for just such a purpose.

The problem comes when some of us come to depend on the use of a rest for our shooting and I admit that it's easy to fall into the trap. Using a bench is good for lots of things, but for general purpose shooting, get away from the bench after you've verified your load. Get on your belly, or on your knees and learn to shoot your rifle.
 
To the OP: you mentioned working up loads for it. Are you using the same bullets for each load? Have you tried other bullet types? When I was chasing my Rem 700 .223 ADL Varmint's "most accurate load", I bought as many different ammo that I can find. I shot and measured each one and then I bought the components to the most accurate one I found. I then loaded that incrementally until I found my best groups. My guess is you have not found the best ammo for your rifle.

My load BTW is 55 gr Hornady V-max, with 27.4 gr BLC2, in a Hornady case, with a CCI small rifle primer.

I do not use a Lead Sled, just a front bag.
 
as stated previously, " pull that rifle butt tight into the pocket "
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For a .223 from the bench I wouldn't bother. Let the rifle rest on sand bags, and let it free recoil with as little contact from the shooter as possible.

What ammo are you using?
 
Great minds do think alike : ) After a trip to the range last friday I was thinking about what I could do to elimiate as much physical contact with my rifle when load developing. A few years ago when load developing for my 7mm I used a hi-skoor cleaning rest with good results. I'm gonna modify it a bit and use it with my .308.
 
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