Shooting My 336 Offhand at 50 Yards

C

ckpj99

New member
So on my quest to get a reload that works in my 30-30 (which has been insanely frustrating), I went to the range today to test some loads. I use a 150 grain Hornady Whitetail rounds as a benchmark because they work really well with my gun. I got so frustrated with the performance on my handloads (an ongoing struggle which I may have finally found answer in my COL) that I started shooting offhand to test the "practical accuracy," lol.

I always save three rounds of Whitetail for the end just to compare my groups. I shoot at a 50 yard indoor range. This was my last group of the day.

offhandtarget.jpg


This is tighter than some of my benched handload groups, lol. Granted, I've been practicing my offhand shooting a bit. I bought a relatively cheap pellet gun that I've been using at 10 yards.

I just think it's awesome to see what you can do with open sights and an old lever gun. I love it when the guys in the next lane with their ARs ask me what I'm shooting, lol.
 
Well, you're practicing the right things. I've never met a deer that would wait for me to set up on the bench to take a shot.

That is fine shooting for offhand.
 
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Thanks, folks!

Bama - I'm using the stock sights that came with the gun. Mine is an older model, so it does have the semi-buckhorn style. The front sight is a brass bead. The rear sight is a standard notch. I've tried a Skinner's peep sight, and I've tried a new Marlin rear sight. Neither worked as well for me as stock sight.

1stMar - How it's rested does seem to make a difference, however, my reloads are just terrible. I can shoot the Hornady Whitetail rounds super tight off the bench. I switch to my reloads and the group open up a ton. I posted a whole report on it awhile back - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546520
 
I think three things really helped my offhand shooting.

1) Using a "springer" air gun requires a very specific technique called the "artillery hold." Basically, the guns are so picky about how they're held, you try to hold them as lightly as possible. Since it requires you to support the whole weight of the gun with your arms and back (and not rely on pushing the gun into your shoulder firmly to steady it), I think my physical strength is better for holding the gun steady.

2) These springer airguns require repeatable follow through, even at 10 yards. It makes you really pay attention to how you're holding the gun before the shot. This doesn't matter as much when shooting a firearm because the bullet leaves the barrel so much faster, but when you're trying to shoot out to 50 and 100 yards, it is a small factor.

3) I switched from doing a standard stance and position to a more target style stance. I turn the left side of my body toward the target, and stand more at profile. The butt of the gun sits more on my right bicep than on my shoulder. It seems like a more stable position for me.
 
Nice shooting! People dont realize just how accurate those marlin are!

My 336 in 35 loves the Hornandy lever evolution stuff alot.
 
Badlander - I've tried lots and lots of different loads including several types of factory 170s. It's the pickiest gun I've ever owned. It loves those 150 Hornady rounds and that's it. However, I talked with a older guy at the range and he said it might be an overall length issue. Perhaps my gun likes it's bullet chamber right up against the rifling, perhaps it likes a little space. I need to figure how the Hornady rounds sit in the chamber and try to match that in my handloads. What a pain!
 
nice

Factory open sights huh? That's a pretty good group.

I used to load a bit of 30-30, (for a Win94) and the cartridge gave me fits. I crushed a bunch of cases......did not fully understand crimp and was not paying attention to uniform case length either.

The win 94 is long gone, who knew?
 
I am going thru the same thing with a Marlin 30A. It makes a difference on the bench if I bag the action not the for end. A soft hold also works (gripping the fore arm with the supporting hand on the bag). My problem is at 100 yards the soft hold wiggles a bit. With the Marlin, a good 50 yard group is good for testing and initial site-in and then go from there.

If I get 3 inch groups or their abouts from field rests at 100 yards, for me its accurate enough.
 
Bama - I trying to do everything right, but it's not working. I'm trimming cases every loading, and doing consistent crimps. It's really frustrating. I'm going to load up some with different seating depths and go from there.

Fireguy - Yeah, I'd be happy with 3" groups at a 100 yards though I think my gun is capable of 1.5" groups. I can cloverleaf three rounds (of the Hornady Whitetail) at 50 yards with my gun off the bench, so I think it will shoot pretty tight at 100.
 
Big Al - I do have a dial caliper. The Whitetail ammo uses a 150gn Hornady Interlock flat point, which I can't see to find anywhere. I'm using a 150gn Speer Hot Cor flat point with Lever Evolution Powder (I've already done a ladder test with it http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546520 ). The issue with determining the bullet jump length with both bullets is that they have dramatically different profiles. The Speer is more pointed and tapered. So using the COL to determine my seating depth doesn't really work. What I'm thinking of doing is a basic trial and error test with maybe three different seating depths (leaving all other variables the same).

Dremel - My reloads required a 6 o'clock hold, so I had been using that all day and kept using it with the Whitetails. My gun is sighted in for the Whitetails because they work so well. I figure a dead on hold at 50 yards means using a 6 o'clock hold at 100 yards and a dead on hold at 150 (though I have tested this yet).
 
To get your bullets close to the same amount of jump try this. Full length size an empty case. This leaves the mouth slightly smaller than bullet diameter. Place the empty casing mouth over the bullet in the Whitetail ammo, this gives you a measurable, repeatable length to the ogive of the bullet approximately where it contacts the rifling. It is not perfect, but it is a better starting point than a guess. Do the same thing with one of your hand loads. Adjust the seating depth accordingly.

Also measure the amount the shoulder of your case moves when you full length resize. If you have an empty casing from a larger caliber you can use it as a measuring jig similar to the one I described above. If you are moving the shoulder too much it could be affecting accuracy.
 
Since you have a dial caliper, I HIGHLY recommend buying Sinclair's hex nut style comparator. It's a nifty little hex nut with a different caliber hole in each of the six sides. Just slip the hex nut tool over the tip of the loaded round and stick the whole thing in your dial calipers; Viola! Instant and easy overall length to ogive measurement.

Edit-BTW, nice offhand shooting.
 
If this target shows your off hand shooting. I predict you'll see a much better grouping when this rifle is benched rested. Good shooting there ckpj99.

OBTW: Keep your cartridge case length at (minimum trim length.) Then just crimp at the bullets cannelure line and your good to go. That's how its been done over the past 125 years on a 30-30.
 
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