Shooting Lead

Cast my own in both rifle and handgun calibers, no barrel leading, wheel weight lead lubed with lee Liquid Alox. Only leading I was getting was inside the gas block of the vz-58, so I switched using the cast bullets in that caliber to the CZ 527M. My CZ pistols and Smith revolver are just fine with 124 grain cast lead loads. :)
 
32 Win spcl. 38 spcl, 44 spcl, 45acp and I'm sure there are others but those are the ones I shoot most.

Oh yeah, 25-20
 
I have shot thousands of rounds, at all velocities, from my Ruger Redhawk .44 mag. The bullets were hard cast Keith style SWCs. No leading problem ever. Note: these were very hard cast, I really liked them. Oliver bullets, now out of business. :(
 
What is old becomes new again.

I know two bench rest type shooters shooting stock 4'' and 6'' revolvers. They cast there own...NRA 1952 state-of-the-Art bees wax. It is 2011, progressive reloading machines...and you say to use sticky-stuff bees wax! Are you nuts? Yup.

Any time lost to reloading clean-up is more than gained when cleaning the revolver post range time. You know you're doing it right when after a couple hundred rounds of shooting all you have left is a 'star' shaped smudge on your muzzel; leading is not an issue at sub 1,000 fps..

Many pistol shooters misidentify a hard wax bullet lube in the barrel as lead instead of lube. Hardcast dry wax bullets are great for making up time on the reloading press, they're inexpensive, mass produced and look great and most shooters never see the difference in down range performance. Cool.

In a nice climate, often times you can recover these hardcast bullets from the range berm and sometimes it looks like you could wipe off the dirt and immediately re-use the bullet becaues the ring of hard wax is still there. On closer examination you may find evidence of the bullet skipping past the pistol's rifling. You can't tell if it hit the target or how or how much of the projectile's lead was left in the lands & grooves.

Many shooters, slash reloaders, don't believe or care about this topic. Sierra Bullets put a fork in this issue. That is OK. But for those that do I know who they are; they're the shooters that turn away in discust when comparing 50 yard targets & scores; or the shooters who dig in the berm like Jack Russel Terriers durning CeaseFire.
 
This is a "Lewis Lead Remover". It drags a pot pipe screen through the barrel and when it comes out it's covered in lead flakes you can save to re-melt. The cone shaped part scrubs forcing cones like new. It also does cylinders. Brownells still sells it.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=...bmit=y/Products/All/search=lewis_lead_remover



DSC00478.jpg
 
I am a bit confused -

Is it acceptable to shoot jacketed after shooting lead, or does it depend on the amount of leading (if any) in the bore?

Also, I recall reading that a copper solvent will loosen lead in a bore (because it penetrates between the residue and the bore), and then a bronze brush is all that's necessary.

Also, does off-the-shelf lead bullet factory ammo have any issues?

Thanks to all -

Monty

Hey Monty--What they are talking about is when you shoot a bunch of lead through your gun and see the residue and then shoot a jacketed round it looks like the lead was shot out .
what has happened is that, it's still there,just flattened out so you can't see it. This also makes it a little harder to scub out. A straight bronze brush can be a pain in the butt to clean the lead out, but wrap that brush with a piece of chore boy (w/o solvent )and it will drag the lead out in peices.

As far as off the self ammo goes it usually doesn't present too much of a leading problem because it's normally loaded at a low enough velosity to keep it from leading much , if at all or it has just the right amount of hardness to push velosities a little higher without leading. Either way it's not that big of a deal it can be scubbed out with a chore boy pad or lewis lead remover. Don't be a bit scared to shoot lead
 
[I know two bench rest type shooters shooting stock 4'' and 6'' revolvers. They cast there own...NRA 1952 state-of-the-Art bees wax. It is 2011, progressive reloading machines...and you say to use sticky-stuff bees wax! Are you nuts? Yup. /QUOTE]

There's an old saying that if your bullet lube is as hard as crayons, then that's all it's good for..... just had to inject that
 
I am a bit confused -

Is it acceptable to shoot jacketed after shooting lead, or does it depend on the amount of leading (if any) in the bore?

You can but it does flatten any lead that happened to build up in the barrel making it slick and shiney which in turn makes it a little harder to scrub out.

I know this is an old thread but I get a lot of knowlege and interesting readings from these old threads and wish others would throw their 2 cents in them once in a while :)
 
In our .45 Colt NV Montado's we shoot SD JHP's first for SD CCW practice.
We believe to practice what you CCW carry regularly. Then later for target
fun we then shoot our lead cowboy rounds after the JHP's. Y'all don't wanna
shoot jackets "after lead" as if there is leading, it could create problems in
that jackets obviously don't like to follow leading.....

Some will shoot lead all day then attempt to clean out leading by then
shooting jacketed-not advised. We have very good results with the "lead
away cloths" later as our Montado's are stainless and they do a terrific job
without any harm to our stainless guns. Been using in the same guns for
thousands of rounds with no accuracy change or wear problems whatsoever.
One thing though don't use on blued guns. Some will say use the Chore Boy
or Lewis remover but, we've used all of these over the years and found the
cloths on stainless guns are by far a better choice. Work great on the burn
rings too. Don't scrub, cut a small piece off & just run through a couple times
and lightly do the burn rings and all comes right off.....then just CLP or # 9
with nylon brush, oil, and patch out clean final.....actually our Montados our
more accurate and smooth now than they were when new. 5,000+ rounds and
counting no problems-LOVE RUGERS !
 
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Not sure I buy all that.

In Bullseye shooting, I normally shoot a Colt Gold Cup in the 45 and centerfire events. Thats 180 rounds. I shoot lead RN cast bullets, not hard cast but wheel weights.

If you check the barrel you'll find some leading.

Then comes the EIC Match (Excellent in Competition or Leg Match) whick is required to be fired by 230 grn FMJ bullet.

That's 30 rounds.

The 30 rounds of FMJ bullets do in fact remove the lead left by 180 rounds of cast lead bullets.

I've been doing this since I got my Gold Cup in the Mid 70s.

I haven't shot it as much as the Gold Cup, but I've gotten the same results with my Beretta 92 FS.
 
Most all my shooting is lead only. Only reason to shoot jacketed .... Hmmm, well can't think of one :) . Last weekend I shot over 200 rounds in my .45 Colt revolver and while cleaning I found very little leading.... as expected. Running a brush wrapped in Chore Boy copper strands cleaned it right up after a couple strokes.
 
I shoot a lot of cast pistol bullets, both my own and store bought bullets.

While this may sound counterintuitive, hard cast bullets will lead at low velocities and shoot without leading at high velocities.

Reason? The hard lead takes more pressure to obturate in the bore and prevent the gas blow by and the resulting vaporization of lead mentioned in several of the posts above.

Fixes:

1. A good alloy is the first step, but it must be of the correct hardness for the inteded use. I often use just straight wheel weight (WW) alloy in my 38 revolvers and 45 autos. This is reasonably soft at Brinell Hardness Number (BHN) of about 12 although at times it seems softer. Pure lead is about 4 for a comparison. With alox lube, I get virtually no leading at moderate velocities. Some recalcitrant wheel WW alloys do take a bit of tin or linotype in order to get them to fill the mould cavities well.

2. The hard cast bullets with wax lube from commerical casters need to be shot at higher pressure levels to obturate their harder alloy. They come in at about BHN 16. I use these mostly in my hot 38s and moderate 357 loads. My 45 auto seems to shoot them well at any velocity but I generally need to shoot a softer alloy bullet in my 1917 S&W 45 revolver to cut down on leading in front of the forcing cone.

3. Back in the day, I used to get linotype in 30 lb ingots for a song when the news paper printer felt that their tin level had dropped and it was no longer usable in their presses. It is really hard stuff at a BHN of 21. I use it mostly to mix with WW alloy to moderate its hardness or to harden up the WW alloy.

4. Gas checks. A great solution if you have a mold that casts bullets to accept them. Most store bought cast bullets will not have the reduced radius at the heel of the bullet to accept them and they will not be an option. I think that the magnum revolver cartridges benefit the most from these. I use a lot of them in my 30 calibre rifles and they make shooting lead in the 30/06, 308, 30/40, 30/30 and M1 Carbine a joy.

Like most shooting activites, no one answer works for all and the number of permutations can be dumbfounding. Still, cast bullets are well worth the effort and certainly allow me to shoot much more than if I was limited to jacketed bullets.

One last thought: When you get leading at the throat or forcing cone, you probably have gas blow by. When you get leading at the muzzle, you've probably run out of lubricant.

I'm glad you dagged up this old thread. It's always a great topic.
 
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I only shot 6 Blazer jacketed bullets when I first got my 629 just to feel the 44 recoil and couldn't find any factory cast ammo at the time. But all rounds since then have been factory cast bullets with very little leading. I don't reload so it is all factory ammo for me.
 
Leading and Light Loads

I shoot lead all the time in my Colt 38 Special SAA and USFA 45 Colt SAA-I don't use hot loads-mainly "cowboy" level stuff and get no leading.
I use lead 44 mag,44 Special,and 357 in other revolvers and have had no problem so far-my 44 mag runs about 1100 fps.
All my real hot ammo is at least semi-jacketed.
 
Often a misunderstood problem...

It seems that many who shoot cast bullets, but do not cast their own, frequently hear a lot of "rules of thumb" that are not necessarily accurate, and then repeat them (sometimes accurately, sometimes not) to other shooters.

Velocity, and hardness are seldom the cause of lead deposits. If you doubt this, take a look at how many people shoot lead bullets from rifles at velocities that exceed 2,000fps. Leading is more often a problem caused by many other factors. Improper bullet size, constrictions in the bore and a rough bore are probably the most common culprits. . The bullet MUST be sized properly for the gun they are to be used in, and the bore must be SMOOTH and without constrictions!

The first step to successful use of cast bullets is to slug your bore. This will tell us two things; bore diameter and if there are any constrictions in the bore. While slugging the bore, feel for any tight spots. These are probably most common with revolvers, where the barrel threads into the frame. Any constrictions will swage the bullet as it passes, reducing it's diameter. Then the gasses driving the bullet are allowed to pass around the side of the bullet causing gas cutting. This gas cutting then leaves lead deposits in the bore.

After slugging the bore and making note of any constrictions, use a micrometer to measure the diameter of the slug you just drove down the bore of your gun. Measure raised bosses that result from the lead being pressed into the grooves of the rifling, being careful to measure across the center of the bullet. Note: dial calipers are not accurate enough for this measurement; USE A MICROMETER! Now you know your bore diameter, and thus the size bullet required for your gun. Select a bullet that is .001" larger than bore diameter.

If you felt any constrictions in your bore, you will have best results if you take the time to firelap your bore. I will not go into detail here, as there are many sources of information on this process that are easily found. This process will polish out any tool marks and imperfections left behind from the manufacturing process. If done correctly, when you are finished, the inside of your bore will literally be mirror bright and nearly impervious to lead deposits.

If you shoot a revolver, there is one other dimension you need to check. Throat diameter. Chamber throats should be .0005" larger than bore diameter.

If the chamber throats in your cylinder are slightly oversize, you may have to go to a larger size bullet. If they are grossly oversize, about the only real cure is a new cylinder cut to proper dimensions.

If your throats are under size, the solution is much easier. They can be reamed or polished out to the proper diameter. Any competent gunsmith, and most average guys with a knowledge of hand tools, can easily do this. Once again, there are lots of sources for information on how to do this yourself, so I won't get into it here.

If you have read this far, now we can talk about bullet hardness, pressure and velocity and velocity. This is a subject that could, and does, easily fill multiple books. Suffice it to say that for non magnum loads, truly hard cast bullets are not needed. I cast bullets for almost all of my handguns, including true powerhouses like .454 Casull and .475 Linebaugh. I have driven cast bullets weighing 335 and 420 grains to velocities in excess of 1400fps with NO NOTICEABLE LEADING!

In short, don't buy into the rules of thumb, myths, wives tales and rumors that you hear around the gun shops and the ranges. Do some research, and find out how to enjoy shooting in a different way. Cast bullets make shooting cheaper and often enhance the shooters knowledge base. You may even find that you get involved in the hobby of casting too! :D

JW
 
non-jacketed lead bullets

Some one told me that shooting pure lead bullets will hurt my rifling...is this true? I don't think it would because lead is softer than copper.
 
Some one told me that shooting pure lead bullets will hurt my rifling...is this true? I don't think it would because lead is softer than copper.

No, shooting lead, even pure lead, will not harm the rifling in your barrel in the least! Pure lead will likely result in lead buildup if loads are anything more than very modest though.

Cast bullets for anything other than fly weight loads are not pure, but an alloy, usually of lead, tin and antimony.

JW
 
Some one told me that shooting pure lead bullets will hurt my rifling...is this true?

No, it may require more cleaning but it wont hurt your rifling.

I shoot pure lead in my BPCRs without problems.

The sooner you clean the bore after leading, the easier it is to clean. It doesn't take as much work as many seem to think to keep your barrel lead free.
 
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