Shooting Lead

J

JLK

New member
How many shoot lead bullets in your guns and do you mix lead and jacketed bullets when shooting? I was thinking about fouling from lead bullets. Do you think this is a problem?
 
I shoot almost nothing but lead in all of my handguns (except the 7.62x25 because I don't reload that one yet) I shoot jacketed every once in a while; maybe 2% of the time.
 
If you use soft lead and keep velocities around 1000 FPS there wont be any leading. I personally don't mix lead and jacketed but then I rarely ever use jacketed anymore unless I need new brass. Lead is just so much better than jacketed could ever hope to be unless you're driving it at magnum pressures.
 
I shoot cast bullets about 95% of the time. I have been known to shoot a few plated or jacketed at the end of a shooting session. If it looks like a sewer pipe, you might create some pressure issues. So look before you do it.
Can it create a problem? Yes. Will it? Probably not.
 
If I have this concept down,,,

Leading does not happen because of friction between the lead bullet and the barrel.

Leading happens with hot loads that actually vaporize some of the lead from the base of the bullet.

Like "lead steam" it will condense from gas to liquid to solid,,,
Adhering to the barrel when it does condense.

So, if you don't use hot loads behind lead,,,
You should be okay with lead bullets.

Aarond
 
Some of my hottest loads are lead bullets. Speed and pressure don't necessarily equal leading, although you've got to do your homework. I'll also admit that the vast majority of the bullets I shoot are going about 950 fps, and leading is very seldom an issue at those velocities, assuming the bullet is a proper fit to the bore.

95% of my handgun shooting is done with lead bullets. Now that I think about it, the only jacketed bullets I use is in my duty pistol and once I retire I won't even use those.
 
Aaron, that's not exactly right but close. The biggest problem is if the bullets (or revolver cylinder throats) are too small. Hot gases leak around the bullet and vaporize lead which then deposits at the breach-end of the barrel. Even if they are too small, you can sometimes get away with it if the pressures are high enough to expand the bullet base. (here's a case where driving them harder alleviates the problem)

If the bullets run out of lube, you can get leading at the muzzle-end of the barrel. This is unusual.

If you drive the bullets too fast you can get leading, but this is not as common as people think -- unless you are using soft pure lead bullets.

Or if the bore is rough, it's going to lead all over the place just from that.
 
Hello zxcvbob,,,

Thanks for more insight on the topic.

I had just read an article on leading in a 10 year old magazine,,,
They did mention most of the factors you talked about.

What I found interesting was that at low velocities (under 900 fps) they could not induce leading,,,
At higher velocities they got leading very easily.

What was most interesting were the pictures of the high velocity rounds,,,
All of the recovered lead bullets has obvious melting at the base.

This was where they drew their conclusion of "lead steam" being the major culprit in leading.

I should have "liberated" the magazine,,,
it was an old Guns and Ammo at my doctors office.

Aarond
 
What was most interesting were the pictures of the high velocity rounds,,,
All of the recovered lead bullets has obvious melting at the base.
This was where they drew their conclusion of "lead steam" being the major culprit in leading.
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I bet that melting was mostly near the edges and extended up the bottom driving band (blow-by) :)

BTW, I like shooting heavy bullets at 900-ish fps, and the guns *usually* require little cleaning except to blow the soot out.
 
if you shoot hot loads, you need a harder alloy.
if you shoot powderpuff loads, you need a softer mix.
like mini balls of civil war fame modern lead bullets flare out their bases to seal the bore, albeit not as much as the old minis.
soft alloys in hot loads will make a huge mess of things.
hard alloys in soft loads could lead the bore from the bullet not flaring out and sealing the bore.....gases could then melt the edge of the base.

really hot loads need a gas check to keep things in order. then you just need an alloy hard enough to keep the bullet spinning in the rifle rather than having the bullet fly over the grooves, stripping the lead out grooves

match your pressures to your alloy hardness and there will be no leading in the bore and little around the throat.

mixing lead and jacketed rounds is asking for trouble. you might not get it but you are asking for it, unless you shoot the jacketed rounds first.

i shot lead in all my pistol calibers...9mm-500mag.
of them all, the 9mm was hardest to get to not lead.
 
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Also noteworthy is that sometimes bullets are too hard for the load being used thus not letting the base seal to the bore and letting blow-by, and as mentioned before in several posts vaporizing the lead and ,ect ect.

I have worked out a couple loads with my 44 and my 45lc that hit the sweet spot that is over the 900-1000fps (not far but in the 1100+ range) limit with minimal fouling. Also played with different lubes too like alox,moly and homade lubes to get the better results.

This took a long time and a lot of scrubbing with a chore boy to finally get this figured out :D
 
I'm in the process of working up a + 1000 fps load out of my 44 using 310 grain bullets that are hard cast and gas checked. They have worked just fine up to 950 and I very well may have my load now, but want to try just to find out what lies beyond. The hard alloy helps a lot as well as the gas checks to keep leading at bay. Like stated earlier, do not mix jacketed and lead. An old wives tale had a deleading stunt of shooting a few jacketed bullets at the end of a days shooting of lead rounds. Nothing could be further from the truth as if you are "leading" already, the jacketed rounds will do nothing but pressure seal the fouling onto the bore and make matters much worse than before. I formerly shot in Cowboy Action Circles so that's where I got hooked into the use of lead, but done correctly, the rounds are quite effective. Smithy.
 
I was thinking about fouling from lead bullets. Do you think this is a problem?
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Lead fouling is never a problem if you know the tricks of the trade. ;)

Take a Chore Boy copper scouring pad and wrap it tightly around a bore brush so that it fits tightly in your bore. Then run it through your bore a few times, dry with no solvent. Taking care of the toughest lead fouling is that simple.

I just used this method myself for the first time today and let me tell you, I was astounded at how well it worked. I had a shotgun bore that was scuzzed up something fierce from shooting magnum slugs. Just a few passes with that Chore Boy, and that bore looked like it did when it was brand new and I first got it.

One caveat, though: Use only genuine Chore Boy solid copper pads; a lot of the cheap off-brand pads are actually copper-plated steel and will ruin a bore in short order.

Chore Boy: Learn it. Know it. Live it.
 
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My only experience with lead has been with commerical rounds. .22s, of course, plus 158gr. lead round nose .38 specials, and various magnum rounds that are semi-jacketed. I've never had any problem with leading from any of these rounds, they shoot cleanly and without residue.
 
Unless money is no problem falling out of the old dupa or you have a money tree in the back yard lead is the most economical way to shoot. Todays hard cast lead bullets shoot clean. Yep you will need to clean the barrel after each range session. 38 spl, 357 mag, 9 mm, 40 S&W cost me reloading .10 per round and my 45 acp are .12 per round
 
Lead is all I shoot in my pistols/revolvers. Cast using wheel wights. The only exception is Bullseye EIC (LEG) matches where RN FMJs are required.

Been shooting lead forever (or since the early 70s). I don't have a problem with leading, but I do wash my guns every now and then.
 
I think it really has more to do with how well the bullet fits the bore of your particular gun. For example, my .44 Magnum reloads (240grn cast SWC over 17.5grn 2400) produce a noticable (though not horrible) amount of leading in my younger brother's Ruger Redhawk, but almost none in my S&W 629 or my dad's M29. The bullets are supposed to be .429 diameter (I don't cast bullets myself) so I suspect that my brother's gun may have a slightly looser bore than mine or Dad's (.430 bullets would probably be better for the Ruger).

With the exception of .38 Special, all my handloads are supersonic (I load .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 10mm, .44 Magnum, and .45-70 with cast bullets) and I never have leading that can't be removed with a couple passes of a bore snake. About the fastest I've ever driven cast bullets were in .45-70 loadings that, according to my manual, knocking on 2000fps.
 
I am a bit confused -

Is it acceptable to shoot jacketed after shooting lead, or does it depend on the amount of leading (if any) in the bore?

Also, I recall reading that a copper solvent will loosen lead in a bore (because it penetrates between the residue and the bore), and then a bronze brush is all that's necessary.

Also, does off-the-shelf lead bullet factory ammo have any issues?

Thanks to all -

Monty
 
I cast my own and roll my own. There is more than one factor that leads to leading, velocity is one, the wrong alloy is the next.

Leading can be controlled by having the proper lead-tin-antimony alloy, a good lube, a gas check or an old fashioned filler.

The gas check is not just preventing gas melt it also acts as a scraper, which is pretty much trashing the theory of a jacketed bullet compacting the lead fouling. Dangerous pressure levels will not be attained by shooting a jacketed bullet after lead bullets unless a marginal load of a jacketed round on the extremely strong side will be fired through an excessively leaded barrel.

Leading will decrease accuracy and when this happens, it is time to check the barrel. I have removed large slivers of lead after shooting Winchester rimfire bulk ammo after noticing decreased accuracy. Extreme leading will reveal itself.
 
Is it acceptable to shoot jacketed after shooting lead, or does it depend on the amount of leading (if any) in the bore?
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Yes.

As I mentioned I only shoot jacket bullets in the EIC match phase of bullseye.

It's normally the last event. I start out shooting the Center fire Match (after the 22 match) , then the 45 Match. That would be 180 rounds of lead 45s. Then I shoot the EIC match with 30 rounds of RN Jacketed bullets.

The EIC phase cleans the lead out of my barrel.
 
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